Jump to content
IGNORED

Raquel's Friend's thoughts on courtship


love2scrap

Recommended Posts

So this girl is in our dear Miss Raquel's circle of friends.

Fundie girl, all-beit an aspiring model who dresses in some rather defrauding outfits.

She comes across as much more mature in her writings. I'm sure FJ could easily pick her apart, but there are good points in her post as well.

She did quote Stacy McDonald :music-tool: :wtf:

Perhaps Miss Raquel should take note that her type of blogging is not helping to get the guys...

justanotherrebornhuman.blogspot.sg/2013/04/define-courtship.html

Ladies and gentlemen, now that I am officially in a courtship, I thought I might try to clear up all of the confusion surrounding the word.

courtship [ˈkÉ”Ëtʃɪp]

noun

1. the act or art of seeking the affections of a woman; wooing

2. the period during which such wooing takes place

Cool. Sounds nice and old-fashioned. But this word has become so common among the homeschool subculture that it's lost its meaning altogether. When you hear a couple is “courting,†what does that mean? Arranged marriage for the 21st century? Awkward dating with both parents watching constantly? Or just Christians doing the same bf/gf thing as everyone else – but with a reformed name?

All those things may be named courtship, but to me, courtship is really only one thing: a relationship between a man and woman seeking to determine God's will in their future, while protecting each other and honoring their parents. It's really about the principles, because every courtship is different.

When my sister started a courtship, it was new ground for us. Sure, we'd read tons of books about courting and watched sermons about purity – goodness, we'd even listen to long tapes during car trips on the topic – but then we would hear “every courtship is different,†leaving us basically on our own to create this thing called courtship for our own family.

Thank goodness.

We thought the rules applied to everyone. Rules about timing, stages, and even as specific as physical boundaries. But we learned that the most important thing about courtship is that it is very different for every couple. Everything is different because the people are different.

Some last a couple months, some a couple years. Some involve heavy parental oversight, some little. Some couples know each other for years before-hand, while some hardly at all when the courtship begins.

I cannot place enough importance on being willing to make adjustments to your picture of the “perfect courtship†because of your situation. It's really okay! Still there are basic essentials. Here are the basic Principles of courtship. (I capitalized the P because the 3 essentials start with Ps... clever, I know...)

Purposeful intent

Purity valued

Parental involvement

So first, purposeful intent. This is mostly to shield against the culture-condoned practice of dating for fun, or to “just get to know†without serious interest in marriage. Because this is done in a environment that promotes romantic feelings, the fear is that it leads to emotional attachment (which is usually true) and then to heartbreak. Yes, we know heartbreak isn't the end of the world, and it can be a great growth process, but it's generally way more efficient to get to know people outside of a romantic context. A courtship is always looking toward marriage as a hopeful goal. (Not a definite goal. That's called “engagement.†And yes, that was sarcastic.)

Purposeful also means you wait until the young people are ready to begin a courtship. It is not an easy out for two infatuated young people to have a romantic relationship even though they're not anywhere near marriage – but oh, it's okay because we're courting. Shall I quote Song of Solomon? Don't start things until the two people are ready for things to be started.

I tend to put prominence on maturity. Yes, a job is important; yes, knowledge of house-keeping is important; but knowing how to sacrifice and be vulnerable and being ready to enter the extremely hard puzzle that marriage is: this is most crucial. At least to me.

Now, with each of these principles, some people go overboard. For instance: Waiting until they're ready, to some people, means the man must already be ready to support a wife and three children before he asks to court anyone. (I only exaggerated a little, actually. Sadly.) While financial stability is important, it may not be a reason for delaying courtship. Neither may age be. Usually, a courtship of two 17-year-olds isn't the wisest thing, but sometimes it works! It is different for everyone. I know of a couple who had a long but blessed courtship that began when they were about that age. They are married now and so glad they could do all of those years of growing side by side. It definitely does not work for everyone, but don't rule it out as impossible. Please.

Now on to number 2. Purity valued. Purity is probably the most enormous focus in courtship talks/books. It doesn't just mean physical. Emotional purity is one of the most-talked-about topics for young women. "Emotional purity" actually isn't the best wording (discretion would be better) because it implies it is something that can be lost and never regained (more on that later). But emotional discretion is really important, especially for girls, and especially when they're young. No not be reckless with your love, or foolish with your thoughts. Remember, the heart determines the course of the life. (Psalm 4:23, NLT) And as far as physical purity, God commands it.

Now, how some go overboard. Does it surprise you that the day I realized kissing before marriage isn't a sin was not very long ago? Okay, it's not as if I consciously thought it was, but my subculture so valued “saving†your kiss for your wedding day that I was secretly judging anyone who didn't. Until I realized it wasn't actually any kind of moral failing – it was just a wise idea. First kiss at the altar is a very good idea for keeping physical purity. But please remember that it's not a sin to decide not to. (Decide being an important word. “It just happened†when you planned to save it for the big day is a different issue. Set your boundaries and keep them.)

And on the emotional side of things... oh boy. Ladies, please hear me out. If you fall in love with a man, and end up not marrying him, it is okay. It will not make you less pure, leaving you partially defiled on your wedding day. You do not leave a part of your heart with that first man that you can never give to your husband. Yes, you might always remember him, perhaps with regret – but no matter how many times you fall in love, you will always have all your heart to give your true love.

I say this not to encourage you to fall in love, but to hearten those who have done so, wisely or not. Too much pressure on guarding your heart will make you afraid of taking the steps needed to create that deep relationship vital in a courtship. I am writing a post about my own experience facing that choice of vulnerability, and what I discovered about keeping my heart in a courtship. Stay tuned for that.

So that's all I can say for now without being utterly-way-too-long. Guarding your heart is good, very good, but please don't take it overboard. It's damaging to your relationship with your future husband.

Last but not least, number 3: Parental involvement. This is probably the principle you will have the hardest time finding in the dating world. In fact, you don't even find it much in engagement. But courtshipers (I think I made up that word) find it very important. Basically, this includes the woman's father “checking out†the young man, setting boundaries for the courtship, and just being involved in the whole process.

I love this. I really love it. First, it gives the father the honor he deserves. Second, it deepens and strengthens relationships between parent and child, as you talk openly about this very personal issue. And third, O young ones, your parents aren't perfect, but they've got some great advice. They've been through this. While you may feel like you know way more about this situation, take a humility pill and realize that you've got a lot to learn. Besides, you're probably not quite in your right mind as there is some amazing person interested in you. Just sayin'.

And the best part about giving your parents authority in your relationship is that they just might hand it back. Say hello to the power of trust. This has been one of the biggest blessings in my own courtship. My man and I have been given a lot of trust in some areas, and as a result, we have an even greater desire to prove trustworthy! There is an incredible empowerment that comes with being trusted, and it is a great maturity-builder for young adults who may or may not deserve it, but will strive to earn it.

How do some go overboard with this? By making the rules too strict. By closing the gate too tight. By not trusting the couple enough, so that they jump over the gate, because they felt it would never open. Enough said.

Also, it is difficult to say what the level of authority a father should have on rejecting a suitor. This is one I can't say a black and white answer on, because the situation is always different.

However, in almost every situation I can say that is very important to give the couple time alone. I used to think in courtship, there was always someone right there, watching and listening. Wow. What a way to develop a relationship. Hooray for third wheels – but to have a truly real and deep relationship, some things must be between 2 people only, and not shared with the parents or anyone else. That is the nature of relationships, and especially one as intimate as this one is meant to become.

...Please forgive me, I'm going to say just a little bit more about rules (even though I said "Enough said.") Don't misunderstand me - rules are wonderful things. They can often be legalistic or too harsh, but in general they are great. My whole life, we always had the rule: "No riding in the car alone with a guy." Even when neither of us were remotely interested in each other and it was just for convenience - it didn't matter. We had a rule, and we kept it. Did this get annoying sometimes? Yes. Did it hurt me? No. Really, it's okay to put up with rules that don't always make sense. Better to be safe than sorry.

So those are the 3 principles that I believe make courtship different from dating. Before I'm finished though, I must state something rather important. And that is this: dating can be God-glorifying.

This should be obvious, but to those in my circle, it's not. People, listen: Dating people actually aren't stupid. (Gasp!) They oftentimes date with purpose, and in some form or other, value purity. It's true. And on the other hand, some don't. Those types are so scandalous that we decide all dating is like that and therefore “bad.†It is unfortunately common to find pro-courtship-ers making generalizations about daters, because the large percentage of them are all one way. Check out this quote from Stacey McDonald.

“Dating is random, while courtship is deliberate; in dating, the goal is romance, while with courtship, the goal is marriage; dating leaves the couple unprotected, while courtship protects the young couple; dating is an unnatural setting of perpetual recreation, but courtship creates a natural setting of real life and family...â€

Do you see the stereotyping? Courting couples can be very unprotected if they make unwise choices, while dating couples can choose to put up boundaries for themselves. It's about the principles, not the name. Let me say it again. It is the principles within the relationship that determine whether it glorifies God or not. Dating can be totally fine.

And what do I mean by “dating?†Going on dates. Spending time one-on-one developing a deeper relationship. Doing fun things together. Doing hard things together. Dating doesn't have to equal fornication and broken hearts. Just as courtship doesn't have to equal purity and protection. Whichever way you go, if you make the Bible the core of your relationship's principles, you're good to go. It's okay to do things different than the next guy. It really is.

Thanks for reading. Sorry this ended up so long, but hopefully it's been somewhat helpful. Go date/court to the glory of God!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In comparison to the pro-courtship crowd in general, she seems pretty sensible. She acknowledges that you're not "damaged goods" if you've been in love before, that there's nothing wrong with kissing before marriage, that 100%-chaperoned courtship is harmful to the couple's growing relationship, and that dating isn't inherently worse than courtship (and can be better).

That said, she still holds the same judgemental and self-inflating attitude that we see a lot with these people. She says:

Does it surprise you that the day I realized kissing before marriage isn't a sin was not very long ago? Okay, it's not as if I consciously thought it was, but my subculture so valued “saving†your kiss for your wedding day that I was secretly judging anyone who didn't. Until I realized it wasn't actually any kind of moral failing – it was just a wise idea. First kiss at the altar is a very good idea for keeping physical purity. But please remember that it's not a sin to decide not to.

She admits to judging people, but rather than realising that it's not right to judge other people's personal choices she only ceases to judge them when she concludes that those choices are not objectionable. Given that she later refers to "fornication", I think it's clear that she's still totally okay with judging people for their sexual behaviour.

Then there's the insistence on parental involvement because, "it gives the father the honor he deserves."

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with asking one's parents for advice. If your parents have had a happy relationship for 25 years, and you're close to them and they know you well, then they can offer valuable insight. That said, that's a pretty specific sub-group of parents who are qualified to offer that advice, and it should be, well, advice, not active involvement in the relationship.

The other issue I have with this quotation is the assignation of special honour to the father. Besides the fact that not all parents deserve this honour, why should the father deserve it more than the mother? In a fundie family set-up, I would have thought most young people have been influenced more by their mother than their father, given that she has played a more active role in their upbringing. If either parent should get a special honour here, it's the mother. Of course, I think it's daft to give special honour to one person or another on the basis of gender, and would argue that IF a young person wants his/her parents' involvement in some sort of romantic pursuit, which parent that is varies greatly depending on individual family dynamics.

I'd like to think that her comparatively progressive approach to courtship is a sign that she'll become less fundie as she grows older, at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Besides, you're probably not quite in your right mind as there is some amazing person interested in you. Just sayin'.

Miss Raquel has said this exact thing almost word for word. Why do they think that when they meet a guy they will suddenly lose all logic and critical thinking skills?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When my sister started a courtship, it was new ground for us. Sure, we'd read tons of books about courting and watched sermons about purity – goodness, we'd even listen to long tapes during car trips on the topic – but then we would hear “every courtship is different,†leaving us basically on our own to create this thing called courtship for our own family.

I though my dad listening to Rush Limbaugh in the car was bad.

Miss Raquel has said this exact thing almost word for word. Why do they think that when they meet a guy they will suddenly lose all logic and critical thinking skills?

Well, you do, but that's part of the fun! :zimbie:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Besides, you're probably not quite in your right mind as there is some amazing person interested in you. Just sayin'.

Miss Raquel has said this exact thing almost word for word. Why do they think that when they meet a guy they will suddenly lose all logic and critical thinking skills?

I can vouch that this is actually true in many cases when fundie girls experience first love. Those i knew reported that they had trouble eating and sleeping! It all comes about from repressing those feelings for years and years, being told to have zero thoughts or emotions regarding guys, and once the dam is let go woe to the family of the girl in love! they do, literally lose some of their critical thinking skills...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.



  • Trending Content

  • Recent Status Updates

    • mango_fandango

      mango_fandango

      It’s not supposed to be mosquito season right now but I still appear to have been bitten twice on the side of my foot. Bastards. I know I shouldn’t scratch but it’s so tempting… 😑
      · 0 replies
    • Therapy Outside the Box

      Therapy Outside the Box

      Hello,
       
      I'm brand new to this forum. It was suggested to me by former and outspoken Remnant Fellowship member (Natasha Pavlovich) that I join this forum and put out here what I do. She also warned me that no one on here trusts, or trusts easily, and that I'd likely be assumed to be a Remnant plant or spy until vetted and verified as not that. Fair enough. 
      In short, and in truth, I'm a psychotherapist with 25 yrs experience in Franklin TN (less than three miles from RF incidentally) with a special interest in working with people formerly associated with cults, cult-like or any and all high control intitutions. I'm especially interested in working with those desiring not only deconstruct, recover and learn to thrive post-indoctrination, but those desiring to recapture or cultivate an authentic sense of theology without walls, or spirituality with borders. 
      To date, I've worked with former Amish, Mennonite, LDS/FLDS, FOG, and a those representing a whole slew of evangelical, fire and brimstone fear/shame/guilt-inducing institutions.
      I am especially interested in working with former Remnant Fellowship and Scientology members. I view RF as basically Scientology without the budget. 
      I'll leave it there. Much more can be gleaned about me through my website: therapyoutsidethebox.com or IG: @ therapyoutsidethebox
       
      Peace,
       
      Chris Hancock, LCSW
      Franklin, TN

      · 3 replies
    • Kiki03910

      Kiki03910

      I have a friend with untreated autism and ADHD. I've tried so fucking hard to help. He refuses. It's a mess. I'm really really tired.
      · 0 replies
    • Kiki03910

      Kiki03910

      Making Jill Duggar's brownie recipe because why not stay up late.
      · 2 replies
    • 47of74

      47of74

      Party on aisle 15....

      Also no interest if fully paid in so many months.
      · 0 replies
    • WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

      WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

      Happy Supper Bowel Sunday!!  No, wait. That isn't right...
      Anyway, enjoy the game (or the half time show, or the ads)!
      And a very happy Sunday to everyone who doesn't care about the NFL! 
      · 0 replies
    • Kiki03910

      Kiki03910

      I'm a huge baseball fan. This year, MLB TV showed Liga Dominicana games in December and January and it was a fucking revelation. The players had so much fire and joy. The announcers with their charming DR accents were a blast, though I could hardly keep up with the Spanish. DItto the Serie del Caribe. As a White Sox fan, the MLB season is going to suffer by comparison. Te amo los Tigres del Licey!
      · 2 replies
    • bea

      bea

      I've just realized how long I've been on FJ.  Holy cow.
      · 0 replies
    • bea

      bea

      Had ankle surgery on the 22nd and am non-weight-bearing until the 7th, and it would great if I could REMEMBER that I'm not weight-bearing until I try to step on my splinted ankle.
      · 2 replies
    • 47of74

      47of74

      lol 

      · 0 replies
  • Recent Blog Entries

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.