Ken and Lori Alexander get their asses handed to them

[Koala]

:D from the comments of this post: http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/04/definition-of-poverty.html#idc-container

Lori, the definition of poverty in America is not "if you don't have three wide screened televisions and can eat out three times a day." That is ridiculous. Nobody, with the exception of you when you are denigrating the poor, uses that as a definition. People may be poor or fall into financial difficulties for a huge number of reasons: unexpected loss of a job, just returned from military service and no one wants to hire a former soldier who might be suffering trauma from war, working for $7.50/hour at the local grocery store simply isn't enough to pay all the bills, unexpected medical costs, etc.

This survey about homelessness is over ten years old, but I think the results are still relevant (perhaps even more so now due to the recent financial crisis): http://www.urban.org/publications/310291.html#2-i....

Key points:

44% of the homeless people interviewed had worked within the last week. This figure does not include people who probably tried to find work, but could not due to reasons such as lacking a permanent address, lacking a phone and therefore not being able to be contacted by potential employers, lack of access to facilities that make maintaining proper hygiene difficult (and therefore decreasing their chances of being hired for a job), etc.

16% of people moved across state lines in an attempt to find a job.

42% of people listed "help finding a job" as one of the three things they most needed help with at the moment.

To me, none of these things indicate that all homeless people are sitting around waiting for handouts and are homeless due to laziness. They want to work, but are down on their luck. 7% of people interviewed indicated that they were homeless due to drug use, and it could definitely be argued that they brought their misfortune on themselves. However, is it apparent that contrary to what you argue, most homeless people are not lazy.

In terms of food, "5.7 percent (6.8 million) of U.S. households had very low food security at some time during 2011" (http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-us/key-statistics-graphics.aspx#.UWK0VxxmiSo). This means that normal eating patterns were disrupted due to lack of resources. How long this condition lasts for each household is not discussed, but the fact that it exists at all means that Ken's argument about people facing food insecurity mostly being elderly is completely invalid. Individuals, families, young people and the elderly all risk facing food security due to unexpected financial difficulties, and something tells me you will not find any research backing up your claim that these people are only having problems because they are too proud to ask for help or too lazy to do anything about it. Your arguments have no basis in reality.

Do you truly believe that it's possible to earn $72,000 a year standing by a sign on the street asking for help (your math, not mine)? Where is your evidence that nine out of ten times it is "messed" parents that lead to hungry kids? Once again, you are forced to resort to made-up facts to prove your points. It seems that you believe that all of America resembles the wealthy suburb in which you reside. The reason you don't see any naked, starving people in America is because you would rather turn a blind eye than admit that a problem exists (By the way, what made you decide on the arbitrary condition of nakedness as one that determines poverty? You do realize that not everyone in Africa is running around without clothes on, right?). I recommend you try traveling to some less wealthy areas around the country and maybe even talking to some people living in poverty to see what brought them to where they are. You may find that not every person who is less fortunate than you is as lazy as you believe.

Regards,

Awesome! This guy made my day! I also love that Lori's response addresses NONE of his statistics. Keep "learning" Lori, keep "learning".

[docmom]

It's about freaking time. Wonder why she posted it? She doesn't like to be disagreed with.

[crawfishgirl]

She still doesn't get it. Sigh.

Yesterday, Ken wrote a long comment specifically addressed to the commenter named PJB, basically telling her off and accusing her of trying to argue with Lori. It appears to be gone now - I wonder why.

I watched an old movie on cable yesterday called "Sleeping with the Enemy" with Julia Roberts. It was made in 1990 or so. Her husband in the movie is a wife abuser, and when I saw him, I thought of Ken. The facial features are similar, and I can imagine him treating Lori the same way, since they seem to be into S&M stuff (based on some of her strange comments regarding submission). Too bad Lori won't wise up like Julia Roberts' character did.

[nelliebelle1197]

Her husband really came on to defend her from the big mean blog bully? Can she not defend her hypotheses with facts all on her own? :cracking-up:

[kpmom]

Her husband really came on to defend her from the big mean blog bully? Can she not defend her hypotheses with facts all on her own? :cracking-up:

Lori has said if arguments are too intellectual she has Ken answer them. PJB probably used two and three syllable words and that threw Lori completely off.

[idonthaveajname]

Lori has said if arguments are too intellectual she has Ken answer them. PJB probably used two and three syllable words and that threw Lori completely off.

I wish you were kidding about having Ken answer, but I know you aren't.

I hate these people.

[Joan of Snarc]

Lori has said if arguments are too intellectual she has Ken answer them. PJB probably used two and three syllable words and that threw Lori completely off.

Jeebus. I really wonder if she was left with brain damage after her health traumas.

[AnywhereButHere]

It's about freaking time. Wonder why she posted it? She doesn't like to be disagreed with.

I think she allows dissenting opinions when she thinks she can counter them and further prove her point. Unfortunately for her, she just comes off looking more ignorant. Unfortunaely for logic in general, her rabid followers buy into her ignorance and support her no matter what. Hopefully, there are casual followers who read those dissenters, have their logic gene kick in and run fast ar from Lori and Ken.

[lilwriter85]

Ben the guy who posted that comment has commented on Lori's blog before. He handed Lori and Ken their asses after some posting abut gay marriage and universal healthcare. Lori and Ken seem to know him in IRL, back then Lori made some comment like " I hope you are enjoying college here in California". I'll try finding that posting and the thread about it.

[Koala]

It's about freaking time. Wonder why she posted it? She doesn't like to be disagreed with.

I've seen posts from this guy posted before. He always absolutely rips them to shreds. I tend to think (from the interaction they have) that this is someone they know irl. Perhaps through their children....

This is the comment that the poster that handed it to them was responding to:

Ken:

Lori’s point is on target once again. While much of the rest of the world may suffer from a poverty of means, in the USA our poverty comes from a poverty of moral values. Nine out of ten times it is parents who are messed that lead to hungry kids.

If you or a family member are going without food, and the basic necessities in the USA, something is wrong with an adult or two in the family. No one disputes that children go to bed hungry, but the statistics on hunger in America are enormously skewed with the majority of people going hungry are the elderly who often refuse to go into a home as they want to live on their own.

Poverty exists in the USA, but with all the resources, handouts and Christians willing to help, if a child is going hungry it is not because of the lack of resources, but the fault of a parent who is too high to care, or too proud to ask for help from a church or para-church organization. Stand by a sign on the street asking for help and you can make $200 - $300 a day.

I LOVE that Lori and Ken contradict each other:

Lori:

They are well fed.

Even the homeless people can have a place to stay and food whenever they want.

I don't see any naked, starving people in America.

Ken:

Nine out of ten times it is parents who are messed that lead to hungry kids.

No one disputes that children go to bed hungry

Yes, Ken. Lori disputes it. That's the point of her post.

Idiots...

[lilwriter85]

Here are the postings Ben has commented on

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2012/09/taking-away-our-freedoms.html

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13024

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2012/09/in-defense-of-traditional-marriage.html

[Koala]

Ben the guy who posted that comment has commented on Lori's blog before. He handed Lori and Ken their asses after some posting abut gay marriage and universal healthcare. Lori and Ken seem to know him in IRL, back then Lori made some comment like " I hope you are enjoying college here in California". I'll try finding that posting and the thread about it.

Sorry! We cross posted!

[lilwriter85]

Sorry! We cross posted!

It's ok don't worry about it. When I read that comment here on FJ, I knew it had to be from Ben. I went and looked at Lori's blog. I was happy because he said previously that he didn't plan to comment on Lori's blog again. I'm glad he came out and ripped the Alexander assholes to shreds. I agree with you, I think it possible that he knows them through one of Lori's kids.

Edited to acknowledge a previous post by Koala.

[docmom]

Her husband really came on to defend her from the big mean blog bully? Can she not defend her hypotheses with facts all on her own? :cracking-up:

That would require that she had actual, you know, facts.

[snarkyjan]

If you or a family member are going without food, and the basic necessities in the USA, something is wrong with an adult or two in the family. No one disputes that children go to bed hungry, but the statistics on hunger in America are enormously skewed with the majority of people going hungry are the elderly who often refuse to go into a home as they want to live on their own.

Yeah, Ken, those oldsters have some nerve refusing to trade their freedom and mobility just so they can eat/snark.

[Maggie Mae]

I hate the "your comment must be approved" bullshit. It makes me feel like I did something wrong, which is stupid.

Lori, like Chris Jeub and all the other people who have never looked outside their bubble, grossly underestimate the effects of poverty. They know nothing about what causes it, what effects poverty has, the different types of wealth inequality, how it is measured, how it affects them, and who it effects. The worst part is that they don't want to know. They are comfortable with their us vs them mindset, and because they've never left the suburbs, they just don't know. Or they only see what they want to see.

Lori is almost worse than Zs in some ways. I think that Zsu, at least, can differentiate between comments that are trollish, vs comments that express disagreement.

[HeckBound]

Lori has said if arguments are too intellectual she has Ken answer them. PJB probably used two and three syllable words and that threw Lori completely off.

Yeah so...when her bloggers ask the hard questions and bring all dem nasty factz, she has to bring in the big guns?

And since she doesn't leave her house, how the hell does SHE know what's out there in terms of hunger and homelessness anyway?

[rward]

I hate the "your comment must be approved" bullshit. It makes me feel like I did something wrong, which is stupid.

Lori, like Chris Jeub and all the other people who have never looked outside their bubble, grossly underestimate the effects of poverty. They know nothing about what causes it, what effects poverty has, the different types of wealth inequality, how it is measured, how it affects them, and who it effects. The worst part is that they don't want to know. They are comfortable with their us vs them mindset, and because they've never left the suburbs, they just don't know. Or they only see what they want to see.

Lori is almost worse than Zs in some ways. I think that Zsu, at least, can differentiate between comments that are trollish, vs comments that express disagreement.

We went through a very hard few years after my husband developed MS and couldn't work. Prior to that, I knew people were poor in America, I just didn't know what it felt like. (i.e., I didn't say asshattish things like Lori, et al., but I definitely didn't know poverty.)

I really wish we could force all these people to live for 6 months like I did for 3 years. Make them live on the money we had, make them skip meals and pretend not to be hungry so your husband doesn't feel bad. Make them survive for days on the saltines in the break room. Make them steal toilet paper from work because you can't afford to buy it. Make them turn off the heat and drip the pipes so they don't freeze and take cold showers in a freezing house every morning for an entire winter. Make them learn how to juggle bills based on who will you cut off your service when. Make them county every penny because that's the difference between paying the mortgage and buying deoderant instead of just paying the mortgage. Make them walk in the rain on a 42F day because $1.25 for the bus is too much. Make them wear broken down shoes that hurt because even Walmart shoes cost too much. Make them wear worn out, saggy bras, pilled and thin sweaters, socks with holes and pants that don't fit.

When Lori's done all of that, she is welcome to tell me all about poverty in America.

[lilwriter85]

Yeah so...when her bloggers ask the hard questions and bring all dem nasty factz, she has to bring in the big guns?

And since she doesn't leave her house, how the hell does SHE know what's out there in terms of hunger and homelessness anyway?

Well Lori's big guns aka Ken fails whenever he tries to white knight her. The huge problem with Lori is that she has lived a very sheltered upper middle class lifestyle. Not all upper middle class or wealthier people are extremely sheltered like Lori. Some of those people have came from poverty or they have gone out and seen how other people live. Robert Kennedy visited the poorest areas of the U.S. I remember watching an episode of the Kardashians show, where they visited people living in povery after Hurricane Katrina. Stephen King is one of the wealthiest living writers and he struggled for several years before he published Carrie.

My guesses are that when Lori was growing up her parents sheltered her quite a bit and they never really saw American poverty. Lori lacks a lot of common sense about homelessness. Most people would know that homeless people can't always eat when they want to or have shelter. I get the strong Ken also grew up in a very sheltered upper middle class vibe. I also recall someone on FJ saying that Lori and Ken live in a wealthy suburb area. Lori has hinted that her and Ken's relatives are also upper middle class or wealthy. She did posting about how her niece went to culinary school in NYC and how that niece and her daughter went to Paris.

ETA: Lori recently did a posting where she compared Oprah to Michelle Duggar. She said that Michelle was better and that she trumped Oprah and other wealthy celebs attempts at doing good. Many wealthy celebs aren't assholes like Lori they at least go and out see how other people live in poverty in America and other countries. Most recent example is Amy Poehler visiting Haiti.

[lilwriter85]

Lori Alexander · 6 hours ago

True poverty is having no clothes and starving to death as many do in Africa. I don't see anybody without clothes and starving to death in America. I know there are many poor people but every one has access to food and clothing in America. There will always be poor among us as Jesus said but our poverty, in America, is a poverty of moral values.

The only part that is true in Lori's response to Ben is the part about naked people. Again like many of us have said here some people do starve to death in America and not all homeless people have 24/7 access to food. Lori doesn't realize that skipping meals or not going without food for days at time can other bad effects on people's health and cause later health problems.

[Joan of Snarc]

^ I did see a guy in NYC once dressed in nothing but trash bags. And it wasn't performance art or anything like that.

[rward]

The only part that is true in Lori's response to Ben is the part about naked people. Again like many of us have said here some people do starve to death in America and not all homeless people have 24/7 access to food. Lori doesn't realize that skipping meals or not going without food for days at time can other bad effects on people's health and cause later health problems.

You can't be naked in America. It's illegal. If you wander about naked, people give you clothes. That is the most absurd standard I have ever seen.

[blisterine]

yes, my husband has higher testosterone levels than I do. but I have higher estrogen levels than he does.

that's why I don't have a beard and he doesn't have breasts!

[Koala]

Lori~

but every one has access to food and clothing in America.

Ken~

No one disputes that children go to bed hungry

Because the idiocy of these two can't be highlighted enough...

Have these two met?

[roddma]

It seems most of America are clueless about poverty. gov assistance, and unemployment from I read on other forums. A thread on City Data forums said that 'poor arent' really poor' in America. I replied the ones who bark the loudest about poverty and go assistance are perhaps typing from their parent's basement in a five-bedroom house and watching an HDTV.