Fundie-lite parents humiliate child as "punishment"

[Freyacat]

I really, really hate this trend of public humiliation of kids with them holding signs. It's so demeaning to the child. Not to mention, I don't think it's safe to make a child stand next to a busy intersection with a sign - some driver could be trying to read the sign and be distracted and end up causing a wreck. I saw a visibly upset child at an intersection in my town holding a sign that said she was being punished for her attitude. This was in January and it was around 40 degrees F, which is not horrible for walking to your car, but not weather to make a child stand in for who knows how long. I called the cops and they said they would send someone out there. I hope the child's parents got charged with abuse.

[OkToBeTakei]

Retaliation? Sorry I am not understanding what you mean by retaliation OkToBeTakei.

I merely replied to the person who asked if the girl had to get dressed in the bathroom by saying that the girl had a curtain so why would she need to get dressed in the bathroom.

From the original person.

quote

"In case anyone wonders,she does have a curtain across the doorway-I'm not attempting to discipline by denying her right to privacy."

I was meaning the original punishment to the infraction. ie. Taking the door off. I found it interesting.

Sorry I was not clear. I quoted your post as you quite rightly pointed out the privacy was not an issue.

[halsmum]

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Re the wall comment I made,

My then 18yo son did punch a hole in my wall and also punched the screen on his tv. His tv was his tv so not an issue to me but the wall, well that was mine so he had to fix that. He also had bleeding knuckles where he had broke through the plasterboard and just hit the wood beam by mm. He still had to work through the issue with his boss and his dad which caused the rage. He learnt a lesson that day because I would not help him with his tv, his hand, the boss nor the wall.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

My parents found out I had an eating disorder and drug problem when I was 15 and they took my door off. They would tell anyone who came over that I didn't deserve privacy. I didn't get a chance to earn it back, we ended up moving a year later and this house came fully stocked with doors. I always felt it was very symbolic of our relationship at the time - there were to be NO SECRETS in our house, yet we were not to talk about our problems. My folks and I get along great today (15 years later), but it took several years.

I think therapy would have been a better tactic since my problems escalated for a few more years.

I don't know if

**I am not saying they should have allowed drug use in their home or that I was a constant joy to be around, I am just saying that there was a very obvious sexual trauma in my early adolescence that predicated an explosion of mental disorders (Bulimia, the substance use, depression, risky sexual behavior) and dealing with that issue would probably have saved years of bad decision making down the line.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

You can write as many paragraphs as you want trying to justify why what you did was "good parenting", but the fact is that was just a shitty thing to do.

You don't manipulate or humiliate children into respecting you. All you've done is potentially buy her quiet compliance and imitating a respectful attitude towards you until she moves out. She's already counting the days.

Good luck trying to maintain a positive relationship with her as an adult- since you've abused your power, once she is an adult and realizes she doesn't need shit from you, that's about what you're going to get out of her.

First of all, every child responds to every punishment differently. Some children respond well to rewards. Others dont. Some respond well to timeouts. Others think its a game. Some kids need severe punishments, others dont.

Second, I had my door taken off for disrespectful actions. I had neighbors spank me. My sister and I were locked in our room together for a day because of how we were treating each other. Etc. You know what? It worked. And you know what else? I have a perfect relationship with my parents and siblings. Did I like it at the time? No. But you're not supposed to like punishments. There are a lot of ideas of entitlement and privileges as rights in our society, and your post pretty much encompasses all of them.

Third, dont act holy-than-thou. You dont know how you would have reacted in the OP's situation. You dont know how the child would have reacted to your reactions. Unless you know all those factors, you CAN NOT judge someone for what they thought was necessary. Nor can you expect to understand what the child's reactions to the punishment were. The child may have been upset. But the child may also not hate her parents for it. The child may be perfectly content with staying at home until marriage. The child may even want to live close to her parents after she moves out. You have no way of knowing, and it's not helpful to ANYONE for you to pretend you do.

[Feberin]

My brother lost his door at one point. It literally fell off from him slamming it and my Dad refused to put it back for like a week. My brother and father are very close now and my brother is only 23 so not that many years have passed. I think a curtain was a nice way for the teen to retain privacy without the ability to have a door to slam.

[latraviata]

My mother was big into crap like this, but around the house, not outside where she could be called on it. I'm fucking 60 years old and she's been dead for 15 years, but it still feels like a knife to the heart. All her rage and depression have virtually erased our memories of the good times and nice things she did. (I mean, I can remember them "intellectually," but they don't carry the gut impact of the horrible times.) It's so incredibly sad not to be able to say out loud, "No, I don't miss my mother. At all."

Sadly, I could have written this and I am 64, it had nothing to do with religion though, but everything with lack of parental understanding and egocentrism.

I must say, she was a super grandmother.

[apple1]

I just gotta say -

Even the infamous Ezzos teach that you should not humiliate your kid by publicly disciplining. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[formergothardite]

Oh, I need to say something about this. I need to say something strong and harsh and angry about this that will probably start an argument, but this thread is probably not the place for it. Anyone have any idea where I ought to say what I think needs to be said?

If it involves religion, I would start a new thread here. If it is something else chatter.

[formergothardite]

I don't have a problem with making a teenager pay for a new door that they broke. She is giving her privacy but if you get mad and break something, you have to pay for it if it isn't yours or if it is yours and you want a new one. That is how life works and at 15 she is old enough to understand that.

If she had taken the door off to punish her by removing privacy that would be a different story.

[OkToBeTakei]

I don't have a problem with making a teenager pay for a new door that they broke. She is giving her privacy but if you get mad and break something, you have to pay for it if it isn't yours or if it is yours and you want a new one. That is how life works and at 15 she is old enough to understand that.

If she had taken the door off to punish her by removing privacy that would be a different story.

Really looking forward to the teenage years :(

[formergothardite]

Parenting a teen seems so much harder than parenting a child. I hope I'm wrong and it is actually a lot of fun or something like that.

[GodsKnickers]

Parenting a teen seems so much harder than parenting a child. I hope I'm wrong and it is actually a lot of fun or something like that.

Having the relationship I had with my parents, I was quite dreading it. But part of my parenting philosphy has been to think about how my parents would have responded, whether in deed or verbal response, and to pretty much do the exact opposite - well, within reason. That's not to say I went completely the other direction, in that I let my kids get away with everything and anything. I just tried to apply common sense and restraint, as warranted. There was no spanking, no beatings, no verbal abuse, no shaming, none of that. I also worked really hard when they were younger, to build solid relationships with them, so that when the teen years came, we had a pretty solid base to hopefully sustain the not so easy times. We talked a lot when they were kids, about behavior and what we expected and how they felt about things, so that they got a real understanding of why things happened the way they did, why they would see a modification of unwarranted behavior, and so forth.

And I have to say this: I had always said prior, that I would never say I had a favorite age because there was so much to like about each age. But I really enjoyed their teenage years the most out of all their childhood, even with the usual teenage angst that comes with it. We had some really great times and it was very cool to see such growth and development - we had some conversations about all kinds of things, that I really treasure. And they taught me things, as much as I taught them. It was just a really neat period in their lives that was so much more fun and enjoyable than I had expected, given my experiences growing up. That's not to say there weren't times they thought I/we were big old meanie heads, because that's just part and parcel of the age group. :lol: But even through the hard bits, it was good.

I was particularly concerned with the relationship I would have with my daughter, given that I didn't have a proper mother/daughter relationship with my own mother, to draw off of. We disagree about stuff, we don't always see eye to eye, but we are quite close. We have a lot of fun together and to my great relief and quiet joy, she says I am awesome and a great mom. She and I have been through a lot together in the past 2+ years (long story, medical thing, she's still struggling with it), and that drew us even closer together.

Teens are a blast. At least I think so. My daughter is my youngest, at 18. My boys are in their 20s now, so she's my last 'teenager.' It gets even better as they enter 'the real world' and begin to understand so much more. We all have a lot of fun together now (not that we didn't before, but it's different as they begin to relate to you on a more adult level).

[Mama Mia]

Having the relationship I had with my parents, I was quite dreading it. But part of my parenting philosphy has been to think about how my parents would have responded, whether in deed or verbal response, and to pretty much do the exact opposite - well, within reason. That's not to say I went completely the other direction, in that I let my kids get away with everything and anything. I just tried to apply common sense and restraint, as warranted. There was no spanking, no beatings, no verbal abuse, no shaming, none of that. I also worked really hard when they were younger, to build solid relationships with them, so that when the teen years came, we had a pretty solid base to hopefully sustain the not so easy times. We talked a lot when they were kids, about behavior and what we expected and how they felt about things, so that they got a real understanding of why things happened the way they did, why they would see a modification of unwarranted behavior, and so forth.

And I have to say this: I had always said prior, that I would never say I had a favorite age because there was so much to like about each age. But I really enjoyed their teenage years the most out of all their childhood, even with the usual teenage angst that comes with it. We had some really great times and it was very cool to see such growth and development - we had some conversations about all kinds of things, that I really treasure. And they taught me things, as much as I taught them. It was just a really neat period in their lives that was so much more fun and enjoyable than I had expected, given my experiences growing up. That's not to say there weren't times they thought I/we were big old meanie heads, because that's just part and parcel of the age group. :lol: But even through the hard bits, it was good.

I was particularly concerned with the relationship I would have with my daughter, given that I didn't have a proper mother/daughter relationship with my own mother, to draw off of. We disagree about stuff, we don't always see eye to eye, but we are quite close. We have a lot of fun together and to my great relief and quiet joy, she says I am awesome and a great mom. She and I have been through a lot together in the past 2+ years (long story, medical thing, she's still struggling with it), and that drew us even closer together.

Teens are a blast. At least I think so. My daughter is my youngest, at 18. My boys are in their 20s now, so she's my last 'teenager.' It gets even better as they enter 'the real world' and begin to understand so much more. We all have a lot of fun together now (not that we didn't before, but it's different as they begin to relate to you on a more adult level).

I'm really happy for you. But I have to say that it depends so much not only on what you, as a parent, do - but what the actual personalities of your particular children are.

My first couple of kids were fairly easy teens, a few angst ridden moments, stretching of boundaries here and there of course - but easy to talk to, listened etc.

The last couple were absolute hell on wheels. I was a horribly out of control teen myself and ended up with a couple of the same. It didn't help that I was having horrible health problems while they were teens - but I think even if I had been more functional they would have been really, really tough.

Doesn't mean I didn't love them to pieces, and actually enjoy their personalities - but they didn't listen worth shit and absolutely everything was a fight to the death.

[GodsKnickers]

My first wasn't easy. He was just like me, LOL - we both like to argue things to.the.death. So we butted heads. A lot. But it was still quite a lot of fun.

Sorry about the health problems. It's unbelieveably hard, at times. There have been times in the past couple of years I didn't think we could get through another day. I hope your health stuff has been alleviated or at least settled down to a dull roar (we call it our new normal, here - still fecking sucks ass though).

[bananacat]

Wow, I can't believe that anyone would think a teenager isn't entitled to a door! And that people are defending this person! Shame on all of you. You're terrible parents and reprehensible human beings. It's abusive to do that, especially when you feel like you are right to do it. I hope for the child's sake that they are able to break away as soon as possible when they reach 18. Nobody deserves to be treated that way.

[Mama Mia]

Wow, I can't believe that anyone would think a teenager isn't entitled to a door! And that people are defending this person! Shame on all of you. You're terrible parents and reprehensible human beings. It's abusive to do that, especially when you feel like you are right to do it. I hope for the child's sake that they are able to break away as soon as possible when they reach 18. Nobody deserves to be treated that way.

No offense bananacat ... but I think this is one of those things that is really easy to say ( and think ) if you've never had a completely out-of-control teen who purposefully breaks shit whenever they are pissed off.

I kind of agree that it is a little over the top for my personal comfort level BUT - the op clearly stated the kid has a curtain for privacy and the door was broken anyway.

It wouldn't be my choice, but it is a far cry from being a reprehensible human being or abusive.

There are kids who will break everything, be violent, get in trouble with the law, engage in incredibly reckless and dangerously terrifying behavior. And as a parent you just do the best you can to cope.

I don't know if you have kids, or if you have raised teens, or maybe you got lucky and had easy going teens - but it can be mind-blowingly frustrating to deal with. And terrifying as well, because the bad choices your 15 year old makes can be truly life altering - it is relatively easy to ignore or soothe or provide appropriate consequences to a 3 year old throwing a tantrum, it is a little more challenging if your man sized 13 year old is punching holes in the wall on his way out the door to hang out with a bunch of thugs.

By the way, I was a complete know-it-all, positive parenting, talk it over etc etc etc parent until I got to my 3rd child - who had extreme adhd and didn't listen to anything ever. It was humbling.

eta: thank you for the thoughts godsknickers. unfortunately the health issues have only gotten worse, but at least now i don't have kids to take care of.

[hahe77]

When my son was a 6th grader and again as a Freshmen, we went through some rough patches. He wasn't turning in his homework, being disrespectful to teachers and us his parents. I believe it was from the new freedom he had at school. At the middle school, they changed teachers 5 times a day. At the high school, he felt his talent in football would allow him to do what ever he wanted. He also has dyslexia and refused any help.

At least at the middle school level, the teachers and us had a meeting with our son. He knew we were on the same page and he wasn't going to get away with what he was doing. That worked.

Freshmen year was different. None of the teachers wanted to get involved. I called the principal crying and asking what do I do. My thought was that the school had more experience dealing with kids like my son than I did. I was told that he needed to fail and that might be what changed him around. I wasn't willing to accept that answer.

I did think of making him hold on a sign on a busy street. I was frustrated with nothing working. Plus I was tired of being embarrassed by his actions and felt maybe he needed to feel the same type of embarrassment. I called the local police to see if there was anything illegal about it. I was told that it could start a CPS investigation for child endangerment. I decided against the sign thing.

I did go back to the school but talked with the superintendent. He gave me the name of a successful business owner who has dyslexia who became a mentor to my son. We also switched our son to a different teacher. Those two things changed my sons attitude. He seen his dyslexia not as something horrible but something that he can deal with.

He will be graduating next year and we are looking at colleges. A few years ago, I would never have thought this would be possible. My husband and I joke that at his graduation, we will wear shirts saying "We survived X's high school years".

[formergothardite]

Wow, I can't believe that anyone would think a teenager isn't entitled to a door! And that people are defending this person! Shame on all of you. You're terrible parents and reprehensible human beings. It's abusive to do that, especially when you feel like you are right to do it. I hope for the child's sake that they are able to break away as soon as possible when they reach 18. Nobody deserves to be treated that way.

She provided her with a door and privacy. The door is now a curtain since she broke the solid one. Teenagers are not entitled to be able to break things on purpose and not have to suffer the consequences of their actions. The natural consequences of breaking a door out of anger is that you don't have a solid door like that until you can afford to buy a new one. She is more than willing to let her daughter have a solid door again, she just has to work to pay for it. She did not remove the door to punish her by removing privacy. She is showing her daughter that if you break something you have to pay for it. And that is a very good life lesson.

[Syd+Marky]

I really wish that even one of the people who think that removing a teens bedroom door that was broken from being slammed so many times,is abusive,manipulative,humiliating,etc.,would explain how they think its abuse.My child is not being denied her right to privacy.She has the option, and the choice to earn it back.Also,what would you who think Im such a reprehensible human being do in my place?Buy a new door myself, and put it on to be broken again?I assure you,the new bedroom door she pays for will be treated with much more respect.I asked my daughter what the worst thing about not having a door on her room was-Her answer?"Not being able to turn my music up as loud because the curtain is not as sound proof."So in her mind the worst thing about it is a natural consequence of breaking the door-not feeling abused, or humiliated in any way.

In no way do I think I am a perfect parent-hell,I often worry about being a bad parent, as I think most parents do.Parenting a teen is not easy.Parenting a teen who pushes every limit, because thats who she is, is even harder.I love my daughter, and want her to be the wonderful person I know she is, and if that means going over the top,as long as its not abusive, I will do what it takes.She is worth it.

It would be so easy to just put back a new door that I payed for myself.I wouldnt have to oversee extra chores, or not be able to hear the TV over her music (yes,she has earned back some electronics with good behavior),or deal with any of the other things that go along with correcting a kids behavior.Has anyone ever had a kid on restriction.hanging around the house driving you nuts, and just felt like saying "fine,do whatever you want, then", because it would make it easier on you?I have, but whats easiest for me is not always whats best for my kids.

[turquoise]

I think having a teen pay for a door she broke is reasonable, and I am glad the poster has provided her with a curtain.

Having said that, the level of conflict described concerns me. I remember arguing and occasional yelling in my family when we were teens, and my own teens certainly aren't always happy with my decisions. But thankfully I've never lived in a family, either as a child or an adult, where people purposely destroyed things when they were angry. Do you think there could be any underlying issues (say, ADHD or learning disabilities) other than just personality differences? Have you considered any sort of counseling?

[Syd+Marky]

First, I'll tell you that yes, I have sought counseling for her, so she is able to talk to someone about how to communicate effectively, and to help her learn to deal with her anger and frustration when it overwhelms her.I also hope she learns to cope with the changes I have made in my parenting tactics.

I do think there's underlying issues with her feeling entitled to things I dont see as being things a person is in need of, as opposed to the things they want.In many ways, as a young child she was taught that if she threw a big enough fit, she'd eventually get what she wants.That, combined with being a teen at a rough age, and having such a determined personality, have made for some pretty intense scenes.

My daughter was the first grandchild on both sides of her family.Looking back, it almost seems like her grandparents were competing for her affection by playing "lets see who can spoil her the most."To top it off, she was born to teen parents who still had some pretty unrealistic ideas about how life works.We wanted to be "cool" parents, and rarely set limits.When we did she would whine,cry, or argue her way out of a response she didn't like, because we were so inconsistant.I began to realize how much this could impact her life at around age 8, when she began outrightly defying me if she wasnt getting her own way.We took some parenting classes, and involved her in family therapy for several months.We tried to change our inconsistant parenting, and for the most part, have been successful.

When our daughter got to highschool things got difficult again, because she couldnt deal with being told no.She also has a hard time being told what to do(I can't imagine where she got that from:-) ) I only have a short time before she turns 18, and it feels like a desperate time for me, as a parent.

So, IMHO,the underlying issue is an entitlement issue, due to naive, and inconsistant parenting in the early years.We wanted to raise a kid who wasn't afraid of speaking her mind, and who wouldn't give up on her hopes and dreams.Unfortunately we also ended up sending alot of mixed messages about the appropriate way to act when you want something, and how to work through the disappointment of not always getting it.

[latraviata]

I really wish that even one of the people who think that removing a teens bedroom door that was broken from being slammed so many times,is abusive,manipulative,humiliating,etc.,would explain how they think its abuse.My child is not being denied her right to privacy.She has the option, and the choice to earn it back.Also,what would you who think Im such a reprehensible human being do in my place?Buy a new door myself, and put it on to be broken again?I assure you,the new bedroom door she pays for will be treated with much more respect.I asked my daughter what the worst thing about not having a door on her room was-Her answer?"Not being able to turn my music up as loud because the curtain is not as sound proof."So in her mind the worst thing about it is a natural consequence of breaking the door-not feeling abused, or humiliated in any way.

In no way do I think I am a perfect parent-hell,I often worry about being a bad parent, as I think most parents do.Parenting a teen is not easy.Parenting a teen who pushes every limit, because thats who she is, is even harder.I love my daughter, and want her to be the wonderful person I know she is, and if that means going over the top,as long as its not abusive, I will do what it takes.She is worth it.

It would be so easy to just put back a new door that I payed for myself.I wouldnt have to oversee extra chores, or not be able to hear the TV over her music (yes,she has earned back some electronics with good behavior),or deal with any of the other things that go along with correcting a kids behavior.Has anyone ever had a kid on restriction.hanging around the house driving you nuts, and just felt like saying "fine,do whatever you want, then", because it would make it easier on you?I have, but whats easiest for me is not always whats best for my kids.

Don't worry, you did fine! And I should know.

[Mama Mia]

I really wish that even one of the people who think that removing a teens bedroom door that was broken from being slammed so many times,is abusive,manipulative,humiliating,etc.,would explain how they think its abuse.My child is not being denied her right to privacy.She has the option, and the choice to earn it back.Also,what would you who think Im such a reprehensible human being do in my place?Buy a new door myself, and put it on to be broken again?I assure you,the new bedroom door she pays for will be treated with much more respect.I asked my daughter what the worst thing about not having a door on her room was-Her answer?"Not being able to turn my music up as loud because the curtain is not as sound proof."So in her mind the worst thing about it is a natural consequence of breaking the door-not feeling abused, or humiliated in any way.

In no way do I think I am a perfect parent-hell,I often worry about being a bad parent, as I think most parents do.Parenting a teen is not easy.Parenting a teen who pushes every limit, because thats who she is, is even harder.I love my daughter, and want her to be the wonderful person I know she is, and if that means going over the top,as long as its not abusive, I will do what it takes.She is worth it.

It would be so easy to just put back a new door that I payed for myself.I wouldnt have to oversee extra chores, or not be able to hear the TV over her music (yes,she has earned back some electronics with good behavior),or deal with any of the other things that go along with correcting a kids behavior.Has anyone ever had a kid on restriction.hanging around the house driving you nuts, and just felt like saying "fine,do whatever you want, then", because it would make it easier on you?I have, but whats easiest for me is not always whats best for my kids.

Hi, I think you are stating this all really well, and I deeply admire your other post where you admit to parenting mistakes -- which EVERYONE makes ! Some people are too strict, some too lenient, most people are both at one time or another ! And so much of parenting depends not only on what is the "right" thing to do, but the personalities of the actual kids and parents involved.

Anyway, the main reason I said it would be "over the top" for me, personally, is because when my kids were teens there were several of them in a very small house with very thin walls - and the amount of extra conflict over noise it would have caused between siblings would have driven everyone completely over the edge into complete chaos (more complete than it already was !).