Praying At Christmas Party

[Childless]

I would be incredibly irritated by the assumption that everyone believed the same thing the boss does. Makes me glad I work for the Japanese. It would be a cold day in hell before any of that nonsense happened at my place of employment.

[Stacie]

I see nothing wrong with just looking down and being quiet. You don't have to pray just because everyone else is. Or most everyone else is.

Kind of like those who are against "under God" in the pledge and refuse to say it or who get the schools to stop reciting it because it includes His name. Just leave those two words out and you're good to go.

Now if they were at YOUR house and someone wanted to pray, I could see being irritated but then again, what's it going to hurt? I'd just let it go....

I was on BART one time heading into San Francisco and my mother in law's boss boarded the train and sat across from me. She taught at the Christian school that my husband had attended. He was talking about one thing and then all of a sudden "let's pray!" and dropped to his knees on the train. Talk about uncomfortable.... I pray but that was just uncomfortable. Those are the kind of people that try to be a better Christian than the next instead of just letting it come naturally. Nice guy, strange........

I hate BART.

[Koala]

I see nothing wrong with just looking down and being quiet. You don't have to pray just because everyone else is. Or most everyone else is.

The flip side of this is that if you are at a public event, business dinner, ect. and you feel led to pray, you can do so quietly by looking down and saying it in your head.

See: Matthew 6:6

Kind of like those who are against "under God" in the pledge and refuse to say it or who get the schools to stop reciting it because it includes His name. Just leave those two words out and you're good to go.

Just to clarify your statement- Would you feel the same way if instead of "under God" the pledge said "under (insert another religious deity)"? Would you be content to tell your children just to skip over it?

I can be sure about you, but I know many who would raise HOLY hell if any deity other than the one the believe in was used. We'd all be getting a spill about how "this country was founded on Jesus and Christian values."

[OkToBeTakei]

I would walk out.

I would not even entertain it. It is my right not to do so. I would not be rude. But I would not stay.

[LostSamurai]

Check out cashiers say that all the time here. I just nod and go on my way. Annoys the shit out of me though.

Once, when my kids were little we had a cashier start singing some song about the devil to my them (no shit). My husband was just :o , so I just said, "excuse me, but we are Atheists". She clammed up and didn't say anything else. If I hadn't been so shocked I would have gone to her manager.

Anyway, a few months later my husband was coaching soccer and who shows up to deliver a friend's child? Crazy check out lady. Awkward. :?

Sorry. I had to edit this a million times. Apparently typing and headaches don't mix well.

I'm an agnostic Catholic and I'd be pissed off about that.

That's intrusive.

[debrand]

I see nothing wrong with just looking down and being quiet. You don't have to pray just because everyone else is. Or most everyone else is.

Kind of like those who are against "under God" in the pledge and refuse to say it or who get the schools to stop reciting it because it includes His name. Just leave those two words out and you're good to go.

Now if they were at YOUR house and someone wanted to pray, I could see being irritated but then again, what's it going to hurt? I'd just let it go....

I hate BART.

What if your employer was a Satanist? Would you be all right with praying to Satan? What is he/she worshiped the Norse gods? Would you join him in prayer to Loki?

[Koala]

What if your employer was a Satanist? Would you be all right with praying to Satan? What is he/she worshiped the Norse gods? Would you join him in prayer to Loki?

Exactly. For most the call for polite tolerance only applies to the Christian God. Everyone else can bite it. :roll:

[Koala]

The flip side of this is that if you are at a public event, business dinner, ect. and you feel led to pray, you can do so quietly by looking down and saying it in your head.

See: Matthew 6:6

Just to clarify your statement- Would you feel the same way if instead of "under God" the pledge said "under (insert another religious deity)"? Would you be content to tell your children just to skip over it?

I can be sure about you, but I know many who would raise HOLY hell if any deity other than the one the believe in was used. We'd all be getting a spill about how "this country was founded on Jesus and Christian values."

opps, meant to said "can't be sure about you". Damn the edit window! :lol:

[OkToBeTakei]

What if your employer was a Satanist? Would you be all right with praying to Satan? What is he/she worshiped the Norse gods? Would you join him in prayer to Loki?

My boss is not satan but she is personality challenged. BIG TIME. I love my job. I put up with her. Last Christmas I was talking to my Aunt about her. She is 79 very religious, she is my godmother, I adore her. ANYWAY I was whinging big time how horrible this person was, how unfair etc. My Aunt is great but a bit 'preachy' I tend to say to her Godmother don't be preachy at me. I tend to be less polite. ANYWAY she said I will pray for your boss. Really?

My boss fell the next day and broke her wrist. EVEN my preachy Godmother found it funny. I want to CHANNEL her :lol:

It is what you are comfortable with. I am comfortable because she is 80 and she gave me a great childhood. She loves me. I am different.

[Brittany15]

Part of living in a free country with freedom of religion means that everyone is free to practice whatever religion they want. Part of living in a country where people have the right to run and operate their own company means they can choose how to run it. Saying that a person cannot pray at a company event (when they own the company) would be the same as telling someone they had to pray. Your husband's boss has every right to run his company the way he chooses. Perhaps he started his own company because he wants to run it the way he likes, which may mean praying before events. It is not fair to get mad about others free choice to pray and expect to maintain our free choice not to. In a private (not government) company the boss has the right to run it as he or she chooses. This is one of the great things about our country. You can have a company and incorporate your own beliefs, even if these beliefs are none at all. Now, as a non believer it is your right to choose not to participate. If it is overly irksome in our country you can choose not to work there if it is too much of a hardship. Sorry if I am sounding too preachy, I just feel that in order to protect the right to not participate in religion, others rights to participate in any religion they choose must also be protected. If it is your company you can run it as you like. Now if it was a government company I would be singing a completely different tune.

[beestea]

This happened a couple of years at my job in the federal gov't. Each time I reported it to the EEOC as I thought it was inappropriate (and I am a practicing Catholic) as we had some nonChristians in our dept. The third year the agency head had a nonden prayer and I did make a point of thanking her in front of several people that she was inclusive. Never a problem since.

[debrand]

Part of living in a free country with freedom of religion means that everyone is free to practice whatever religion they want. Part of living in a country where people have the right to run and operate their own company means they can choose how to run it. Saying that a person cannot pray at a company event (when they own the company) would be the same as telling someone they had to pray. Your husband's boss has every right to run his company the way he chooses. Perhaps he started his own company because he wants to run it the way he likes, which may mean praying before events. It is not fair to get mad about others free choice to pray and expect to maintain our free choice not to. In a private (not government) company the boss has the right to run it as he or she chooses. This is one of the great things about our country. You can have a company and incorporate your own beliefs, even if these beliefs are none at all. Now, as a non believer it is your right to choose not to participate. If it is overly irksome in our country you can choose not to work there if it is too much of a hardship. Sorry if I am sounding too preachy, I just feel that in order to protect the right to not participate in religion, others rights to participate in any religion they choose must also be protected. If it is your company you can run it as you like. Now if it was a government company I would be singing a completely different tune.

Many of us can't quit our jobs without loosing our homes. Believe it or not, I like being able to feed my kids without having to beg on street corners.

I did not say that my husband's employer didn't have the right to pray. Obviously, we are not bringing any type of legal action against the company so I realize that the boss has a legal right to run the company as he wishes.

However, ethically he is wrong. It is wrong to use power to pressure people with less power(employees) to show expressions of faith.

Your last statement doesn't make sense. How is someone's right to practice religion destroyed if they don't pressure me to bow my head or listen to them pray out loud? Everyone has the right to bow their head at their own plate and pray quietly to themselves. However, they should not pressure other people to do likewise. It should not be assumed that everyone is religious or wants to join in the prayers.

[Koala]

Part of living in a free country with freedom of religion means that everyone is free to practice whatever religion they want. Part of living in a country where people have the right to run and operate their own company means they can choose how to run it. Saying that a person cannot pray at a company event (when they own the company) would be the same as telling someone they had to pray. Your husband's boss has every right to run his company the way he chooses. Perhaps he started his own company because he wants to run it the way he likes, which may mean praying before events. It is not fair to get mad about others free choice to pray and expect to maintain our free choice not to. In a private (not government) company the boss has the right to run it as he or she chooses. This is one of the great things about our country. You can have a company and incorporate your own beliefs, even if these beliefs are none at all. Now, as a non believer it is your right to choose not to participate. If it is overly irksome in our country you can choose not to work there if it is too much of a hardship. Sorry if I am sounding too preachy, I just feel that in order to protect the right to not participate in religion, others rights to participate in any religion they choose must also be protected. If it is your company you can run it as you like. Now if it was a government company I would be singing a completely different tune.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Where did she say he cannot pray at a company event, because I didn't see it? What I see is her saying that she was uncomfortable with it. I see that the general response has been that it was lacked in tact and is probably a bad business practice. That is a far cry from saying he "can't" pray at a company event.

He can absolutely pray at a business event, and she can absolutely come here and bitch about how tacky that is.

No one is suggesting he be carted off to jail or fined. Some of us are just asserting that it's a shitty thing to do when you're in a position of authority and it makes a lot of people very uncomfortable.

[Koala]

Many of us can't quit our jobs without loosing our homes. Believe it or not, I like being able to feed my kids without having to beg on street corners.

I did not say that my husband's employer didn't have the right to pray. Obviously, we are not bringing any type of legal action against the company so I realize that the boss has a legal right to run the company as he wishes.

However, ethically he is wrong. It is wrong to use power to pressure people with less power(employees) to show expressions of faith.

Your last statement doesn't make sense. How is someone's right to practice religion destroyed if they don't pressure me to bow my head or listen to them pray out loud? Everyone has the right to bow their head at their own plate and pray quietly to themselves. However, they should not pressure other people to do likewise. It should not be assumed that everyone is religious or wants to join in the prayers.

Sorry Debrand. I didn't mean to answer for you. I get carried away with conversations like this.

[debrand]

Sorry Debrand. I didn't mean to answer for you. I get carried away with conversations like this.

Don't apologize. I liked your wording much better than my own. :)

[Mecca]

Part of living in a free country with freedom of religion means that everyone is free to practice whatever religion they want. Part of living in a country where people have the right to run and operate their own company means they can choose how to run it.

Just because an individual owns a company does not mean they can do as they wish. There are federal and state laws that govern and apply in many areas of business ownership and employment law.

Saying that a person cannot pray at a company event (when they own the company) would be the same as telling someone they had to pray. Your husband's boss has every right to run his company the way he chooses. Perhaps he started his own company because he wants to run it the way he likes, which may mean praying before events. It is not fair to get mad about others free choice to pray and expect to maintain our free choice not to. In a private (not government) company the boss has the right to run it as he or she chooses. This is one of the great things about our country. You can have a company and incorporate your own beliefs, even if these beliefs are none at all. Now, as a non believer it is your right to choose not to participate. If it is overly irksome in our country you can choose not to work there if it is too much of a hardship. Sorry if I am sounding too preachy, I just feel that in order to protect the right to not participate in religion, others rights to participate in any religion they choose must also be protected. If it is your company you can run it as you like. Now if it was a government company I would be singing a completely different tune.

I am not sure anyone is actually saying the boss cannot have his religion. I think is more on the lines of saying the actions of the boss could be seen as inappropriate and can be divisive to the other employees that may not hold the same beliefs. Why bring that sort of division at a holiday party? I think it is safe to say there could have been many people that attented the party that were not expecting a company holiday party to have an air of Christainity mingled between the cocktails and fake gambling. They were attending a party, not Sunday Services. If someone wants to pray to themselves before rolling the dice or before they eat, have at it, but I think it is flat out ignorant for an employer to lead a prayer for *all* the employees that attended the party believing everyone held their same beliefs.

Personally, I just cannot understand why people have the need for public prayer anyway. It actually goes against the teachings of the Bible.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I see nothing wrong with just looking down and being quiet. You don't have to pray just because everyone else is. Or most everyone else is.

Kind of like those who are against "under God" in the pledge and refuse to say it or who get the schools to stop reciting it because it includes His name. Just leave those two words out and you're good to go.

Now if they were at YOUR house and someone wanted to pray, I could see being irritated but then again, what's it going to hurt? I'd just let it go....

I was on BART one time heading into San Francisco and my mother in law's boss boarded the train and sat across from me. She taught at the Christian school that my husband had attended. He was talking about one thing and then all of a sudden "let's pray!" and dropped to his knees on the train. Talk about uncomfortable.... I pray but that was just uncomfortable. Those are the kind of people that try to be a better Christian than the next instead of just letting it come naturally. Nice guy, strange........

I hate BART.

Two things:

-Are you aware of the history of the phrase "under God", when it was added to the Pledge, and for what purpose?

-What is "good to go?", and who are "you" in this scenario? Sounds an awful lot like "the minority can suck it up" which, newsflash, not the purpose of having a constitutional democracy.

[RosyDaisy]

I make it a point to stare around the room every time they bow their heads and my behavior has definitely been noticed.

If they are noticing you then they aren't doing it right.

[Iokaste]

Add the "potential" and we agree :-)

It keeps being a source of amusement to me how in the US, where church and religion are divided by the constitution, religion permeates everything and you can't get elected for any kind of office without declaring affiliation to a faith, where as in my country where church and state is constitutionally linked, no one gives a damn and you can kiss your political career bye-bye if you were ever caught praying in public or refering to God in a political discussion.

[debrand]

It keeps being a source of amusement to me how in the US, where church and religion are divided by the constitution, religion permeates everything and you can't get elected for any kind of office without declaring affiliation to a faith, where as in my country where church and state is constitutionally linked, no one gives a damn and you can kiss your political career bye-bye if you were ever caught praying in public or refering to God in a political discussion.

I wonder why my country is so saturated with religion but European countries aren't.

[patsymae]

I'm from central jersey where it is considered the height of rudeness to ask about anyone's religion or inflict your beliefs on them. So it was quite a shock when I moved to North Carolina (in many ways) and had Christianity crammed down my throat all the time.

At our Christmas party (mind you, this was a daily newspaper owned by a chain, not some individual's little business) the boss gave a big sermon about how Christ was the reason we were all there. Actually, we were all there because he was giving out the bonus checks at the party. I was sitting at a table with my immediate boss, his daughter, and one reporter. None of us were Christian.

I found it highly offensive and basically just stupid. It always amazes me how some Christians are totally oblivious to, or just don't care, how offensive they are when spewing their "faith" to other people.

And making Christianity an issue in the workplace, unless you're a church or something, is unprofessional.

[dawbs]

I do work for the state - and it FREAKS ME THE FUCK OUT how they pray all the damn time. I make it a point to stare around the room every time they bow their heads and my behavior has definitely been noticed. Over the years I've complained enough that "in jesus name" has been removed from the end of the prayer, but I still think its inappropriate. Not worth suing over, I like my job...

I didn't manage to get noticed much when I worked for Government, but had the same problem.

THe folks who knew me enough to know I was Christian asked why I refused to say "under God" in the pledge or bow for their prayer.

I told them that an overtly Christian prayer was inappropriate in a government, state sponsored location-I was offended as a citizen by it's inclusion. And that the watered down prayers that avoided everything were offensive to me as a Christian, because prayer is supposed to be so much more than that. And that I'd be much happier wit no prayers.

It was a 'to real for work' moment and they all avoided the topic around me again...which, I suppose, was enough for me ;)

[debrand]

If they are noticing you then they aren't doing it right.

If the right wing Christians were actually doing what Jesus commanded, there would be no public prayers. I think that public prayers are meant to separate out the in group from the out group

[HOTW]

It's annoying but I respect people but I do not bow my head. I would stand in respect for the Ameican Anthem and Pledge but would not recite either, unless I was part of the choir. I tend to lift my face upward during any type of prayer session and never has anyone had th enerve to ask em why, I guess me demeanor makes them afraid to. My daughter dates have always confessed being more scared of me than my husband- I guess I just am scary!!LOL