"I kissed homechurching goodbye"? (Not as good as it sounds)

[MamaJunebug]

I think it's the father of Josh "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" Harris who has shut down his father-idolizing church, the Gresham Household o'Faith Church - see ghofcc.org

 

It's not that Gregg Harris has left the idea of family-integrated (read: father-idolizing) churches behind. HIs parishioners have been referred to other like-minded churches in the area as listed at hofcc.org .

 

Lest anybody think I'm being majorly man-hating in my description above, here's where the churches' philosophy becomes plainly stated:

 

 

Quote

Today fathers, embracing their biblical callings, are growing in their roles as shepherds, theologians and disciplers of their own families. Godly mothers are walking alongside their husbands with a fresh sense of security, joy and purpose. Children are encouraged knowing that their best spiritual mentors are the ones who know them the best."

 

(from hofcc.org/about_us)

 

All the pious-sounding talk about "not letting churches divide our families at the door" is just a thin disguising of the real aims, as stated above: fathers are to lead their families, theologically trained and accountanble clergy begone!, all we need is patriarchs.

 

I'd be very interested in why the Harris "church" is disbanding. They make it sound all thoughtful and god-ordained and unavoidable. But I'm hoping that the real reason has to do with people saying, "Hey, wait just a minute, here... this isn't right."

 

Who knows? Seriously, does anybody?

[apple1]

MJB, I a sure you are right and there is more to the story. It would be interesting to know, but hard to find out for sure.

I would be willing to bet, though, that somewhere somehow it involves a power struggle.

[formergothardite]

I bet there is a huge amount of drama behind all this that they will never reveal. They can't let people know that there were so many people questioning what was going on that they were forced to close the doors.

[apple1]

Interestingly enough, it was just in 2011 that Harris separated from the Sovereign Grace group and spun into his own little "church" - (outsider opinion - had to have been a big power struggle there too, along with the other SG problems that are searchable in the web).

Aside: Harris has done a HUGE amount of damage to people by way of his "kissed dating goodbye" teachings, because they have become very pervasive, not only in outright fundy groups, but in many fundy-lite cultures. JMO.

[apple1]

I bet there is a huge amount of drama behind all this that they will never reveal. They can't let people know that there were so many people questioning what was going on that they were forced to close the doors.

THAT.

[DefraudedbyGothard]

MJB here are a few things that are going on:

thewartburgwatch.com/2012/06/29/the-household-of-faith-leaders-respond/

Just search Harris on this site and you will see that there are some pretty ugly things going on.

Sovereign Grace Ministries is being sued for covering up sexual/pedophile incidents

thewartburgwatch.com/2012/10/17/sovereign-grace-ministries-slapped-with-a-lawsuit/

I also think the Huffington Post comvered the SGM lawsuit.

[MamaJunebug]

Thanks all, especially DbG!

[tinuviel]

Ugh, why does going to church as a family have to be a big creepy patriarchal deal? The snowflakiness of it all just kills me.

[Morton Fan]

I think you said it best, MJB ... definitely not as good as it sounds.

[hoipolloi]

Good find, Mama JB.

I hadn't realized that Harris pere was involved in SGM. I knew that Josh "Kissed Dating Goodby" Harris (his son) was anointed by CJ Mahaney to become pastor at SGM's mothership main church, Covenant Life Church (covlife.org/about/pastors/joshua_harris).

Whatever caused this split it looks like Greg Harris has landed feet first in a new money-making enterprise ministry at the Noble Institute (nobleinstitute.org/#/speaking).

Pricing & Availability

If you are inviting me to speak at your conference, I typically request an honorarium of $3,000, plus travel expenses. This, however, is negotiable. Go ahead and contact me, even if you need to offer less.

Looks also like the dynamic duo -- a.k.a. the Harris twins of Rebelution fame -- have married (nobleinstitute.org/#/about).

[Black Aliss]

The mother of one of the sexual abuse victims blogs at ourstoryhelp.blogspot.com

She writes that when she and her husband first became aware of the abuse it never occurred to them to contact the police! Instead they called an emergency meeting with the abuser, his parents, and an elder in the church.

There's more, but I'm feeling sick all over again just thinking about how utterly brainwashed people are in a cult like this one.

[BlondeAsTheyCome]

The drama within SGM has been mounting for well over a year now, but, within the past three to six months, things have really hit a breaking point. SGM has begun to crumble. Covenant LIfe Church (Josh Harris' church) left SGM, which, on top of many other things, points to the direction that SGM is headed.

Here are some websites that expose the very nasty underbelly of SGM

sgmsurvivors.com

sgmrefuge.com

brentdetwiler.com/ (Brendt had a huge falling out with SGM. The story on that is on the website, as well as current SGM drama)

[Arete]

Ugh, why does going to church as a family have to be a big creepy patriarchal deal? The snowflakiness of it all just kills me.

QFT. And to call all men theologians? PUHLEEZE.

[RachelB]

QFT. And to call all men theologians? PUHLEEZE.

While simultaneously insinuating that women can't be theologians, of course. I guess if you keep a young woman fully employed sewing frumpers, grinding grain by hand, raising and teaching her younger siblings, she won't have the mental energy to ask interesting questions about how other people in history have made any sort of coherent sense out of this world. :evil:

[MamaJunebug]

.

While simultaneously insinuating that women can't be theologians, of course. I guess if you keep a young woman fully employed sewing frumpers, grinding grain by hand, raising and teaching her younger siblings, she won't have the mental energy to ask interesting questions about how other people in history have made any sort of coherent sense out of this world. :evil:

I stopped listening to a sometimes-instructive radio "ministry" because I got tired of hearing how "women are easily deceived" and therefore not fit for formal ministry, ....

nor for vocational "calls" that would result in tax advantages not available to "called" ministers, ....

nor (and I knew it was coming) for teaching their sons once their sons were in puberty, ....

nor to act as a spiritual leader for their family.

The radio ministry is "Issues, Etc." and it's produced by two Lutheran men with a board that probably is all-Luthrean and with support from (I would guess) Lutheran church congregations almost entirely. It's certainly not MY version of Lutheranism, but it's been helpful in understanding how groups of believers can do an irreversible slide into the dungheap of patriarchialism.

Sorry for the topicjack. I just shudder to see how outfits like SGM and its nasty offshoots can twist a religion beyond recognition and harm innocents in the process, physically, emotionally and spiritually.

[mystweaver]

I bet there is a huge amount of drama behind all this that they will never reveal. They can't let people know that there were so many people questioning what was going on that they were forced to close the doors.

If my drama you mean the greater household of faith congregation voting to kick him/his church out, 80% of his own church running away to start another one, about 7 families being left, and his own adult children exiting, then yes. :shhh:

Then again, there have been multiple splits, almost splits, and other debacles throughout the history of the church. Sometimes even fundies get sick of spiritual abuse and whacked out theology. :doh:

[Soldier of the One]

Non-accountable, non-training clergy certainly is a bit of a problem. This also makes me wonder about the LDS church and their lay bishops. Who are these 'Biblical fathers' held accountable to? Not every person is equipped to engage with theology. We don't expect every 'Biblical father' to be their own family doctor either, right? Theology as a discipline requires a little more than Bible verse memorization. It's a dismantling of church organization and a dumbing down of organized religion. Just what fundies need - not.

Women walking alongside with their husbands? Really? I highly doubt they get to augment, challenge or inform their husbands' theology.

Poor kids. It sounds like indoctrination central.

[RachelB]

I stopped listening to a sometimes-instructive radio "ministry" because I got tired of hearing how "women are easily deceived" and therefore not fit for formal ministry,....

nor for vocational "calls" that would result in tax advantages not available to "called" ministers, ....

nor (and I knew it was coming) for teaching their sons once their sons were in puberty, ....

nor to act as a spiritual leader for their family.

The radio ministry is "Issues, Etc." and it's produced by two Lutheran men with a board that probably is all-Luthrean and with support from (I would guess) Lutheran church congregations almost entirely. It's certainly not MY version of Lutheranism, but it's been helpful in understanding how groups of believers can do an irreversible slide into the dungheap of patriarchialism.

Sorry for the topicjack. I just shudder to see how outfits like SGM and its nasty offshoots can twist a religion beyond recognition and harm innocents in the process, physically, emotionally and spiritually.

To continue your topicjack, that really grieves me. My father and I have had some really awful moments-- he has trouble treating me as an adult, he's rude to people I care about, and he can't control his temper worth shit. But even when I was an adolescent he listened to my theological questions, argued with me (mostly productively) about them, and suggested books of theology I might read. Those theological discussions are probably what I like best about our relationship. They made me a more flexible thinker, and they gave me a sense of how valuable it is to have a position to argue against when you're figuring out what you think. I don't know if I would be in graduate school without them.

It makes me deeply sad and angry that smart, curious girls raised within other parts of Christianity are forbidden that, just because they're girls.