"Periods of abstinence longer than the Bible permits" What?

[Lady Elaine]

In Zsu's latest she talks about why everybody should have as many kids as possible and why birth control is wrong. She lists reasons for every method - including the calendar method which she says requires "periods of abstinence longer than the Bible permits ".

http://stevenandersonfamily.blogspot.co ... -life.html

I've never heard of this before. What?? The bible tells you how often you have to have sex?

(Not breaking the link because you know she loves it when we talk about her.)

[mirele]

In Zsu's latest she talks about why everybody should have as many kids as possible and why birth control is wrong. She lists reasons for every method - including the calendar method which she says requires "periods of abstinence longer than the Bible permits ".

http://stevenandersonfamily.blogspot.co ... -life.html

I've never heard of this before. What?? The bible tells you how often you have to have sex?

(Not breaking the link because you know she loves it when we talk about her.)

Yo, ZsuZsu, where's your Bible verses for that????

I wanna see what you're cherrypicking here.

[Roli]

1 Corinthians 7:5 "Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency."

is the only verse I can think of that she might mean.

[JeanneD]

Yes and no. There are some set times for postpartum. As I understand it, a woman is ritually unclean from the first day of her cycle (day 1 of menstruation) until a ritual bath is performed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niddah for more information. I'm not sure how she thinks 10 days of abstinence (around the time of ovulation) is somehow less that the 12 days required by rabbinal law. Of course these numbers are highly variable depending on the woman's cycle.

[maybeizfundie]

I'm guessing she is referring to the passage in 1 Corinthians already posted. The Bible tells married people to make sure to have sex.

[lilith]

I know that Zsuzsanna has written before that she thinks the rhythm method is ungodly because it requires women to abstain at the time of month when their desire is strongest. She views abstaining then as thwarting God's plan for when one should be having sex with one 's husband.

Zsuzsanna is surprisingly (surprising to me, at least) open about women having sexual needs and is firm that they should be met. Of course in her view the only way they could or should be met is within a patriarchal marriage.

I find her extreme distaste for barrier methods of contraception very odd

[Minerva]

I know that Zsuzsanna has written before that she thinks the rhythm method is ungodly because it requires women to abstain at the time of month when their desire is strongest. She views abstaining then as thwarting God's plan for when one should be having sex with one 's husband.

Zsuzsanna is surprisingly (surprising to me, at least) open about women having sexual needs and is firm that they should be met. Of course in her view the only way they could or should be met is within a patriarchal marriage.

I find her extreme distaste for barrier methods of contraception very odd

And they're only worthy of notice because babies.

Fundy logic is funny. People with ovaries getting horny when they ovulate? God's perfect plan, so perfect that it's sinful to not follow your urges. Teenagers getting horny? Better repress those urges sweetie, or you're going to Hell.

Also, I'm not horny when I ovulate. I'm curious what Zsu's recommendation would be for me. Besides getting married and off the pill before God smites me.

[CrazySister]

I am 100% against any government welfare programs. If people weren't taxed to high heaven to support such programs, they might actually be in a position to help the unfortunate through private, local charitable donations, as has been the case in the past.

:shock:

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Yo, ZsuZsu, where's your Bible verses for that????

I wanna see what you're cherrypicking here.

Caveat: Not religious here. I merely lurk on religious blogs.

But! Aside from the laws of niddah which other people mentioned already (when you can and cannot have sex in any one month, due to period issues) there's also some scriptures (I can't tell you anything about where/what but someone else probably will recognize it) that supposedly allow for roughly 2 years of birth control between kids because in the scriptures it was at the time "natural" for breastfeeding and whatnot to naturally space the kids out 2 years.

So, there are some Orthodox Jewish people who rely on that to say that they will permit BC (with a rabbi's advice) for up to two years but if you go further than that it's a problem.

Separately from that, back to the niddah thing again, there's people who argue over whether it's "okay" to delay going to the mikvah (the ritual bath that changes you back from forbidden to touch, to touchable). Some people will delay it (so they have more "non-touching" days than required) and sometimes this has implications for fertility, sometimes desired by both parties, usually not spoken of directly.

So it's possible this refers to either of those, at least in a Jewish context, I have no idea if there's similar in the Christian context but the scripture they'd be referring to is probably shared?

Dunno.

[Minerva]

:shock:

Because people totally didn't die as a result of poverty ALL THE TIME before there were government welfare programs. Seriously, I'm so glad I was born in the 20th century and not as a poor person back then.

[JesusFightClub]

barrier methods are disgusting and against God's plan for husband and wife to become "one flesh",

I'm...er, Zsu, you do realise that's not what "one flesh" means, right?

"One flesh" is metaphorical language. The idea of husband and wife being one flesh is to do with the Biblical idea that they are joined together and become as one. This is a pattern which is replicated by Christ's joining with his church. It's nothing To. Do. With. Preventing. Conception.

I see no Biblical prohibition against barrier methods and wonder where the....well, I wonder where you got that from.

Onan is a shitty example. Onan lived in a time where your God, if you believe (which I kind of doubt you really do) was like "LOTS OF BABIES NOW PLZ". He didn't want to have a child with his sister in law, so he withdrew. So I'm presuming you would be happy to take on (if he exists, and I can't be arsed to find out) the PP's brother once he dies.

That, for clarity, means you have to get it on with him and bear his children.

[Artemis]

Zsu's basic position appears to be

'I will deny you the right to make a choice different from mine so that you have to experience a life like mine, made with my choices for you. Then I can truly make you see that I do it better in every way, and you will have to acknowledge my superiority in every respect.'

[RosyDaisy]

:shock:

WTF? She (Zsu) has no clue what life was like before welfare programs...no clue at all.

[Guest Anonymous]

Because people totally didn't die as a result of poverty ALL THE TIME before there were government welfare programs. Seriously, I'm so glad I was born in the 20th century and not as a poor person back then.

QFT. I am so sick of people invoking 'the past' as a justification for their nonsense. The only reason the past seems nice is that we don't live there anymore. (note: that's me shouting)

[latraviata]

QFT. I am so sick of people invoking 'the past' as a justification for their nonsense. The only reason the past seems nice is that we don't live there anymore. (note: that's me shouting)

The gouvernmental welfare programs are funded by the taxpayer isn't it? What is the difference? One way or another it is about regulated solidarity, what is so wrong about that? She'd rather has random and occasional hands out from random, sympathetic people?

It is obvious that she doesn't understand the concept that 'we are the 'gouvernment'.

Apparantly Emile Zola and Charles Dickens were not on her book list.

Zsu is an idiot.

Oh I forgot, that is called a civilised society Zsu!

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I would pay good money to send Zsu back in time to the age of early Christianity and watch her have a talk with the Church Fathers about the "duty" to have sex in marriage...

[ILoveJellybeans]

Zsu, please dont have unprotected sex ever again. Youve already bought 7 children in this world to screw up with your hate and evil, you dont need any more. I just hope that at least some of your children grow up to be employable adults who are not a danger to society or as much of an idiot as their dad.

Not everyone can manage with having about 10 kids. The world wont go extinct if some people just decide to have two. Not everyone has the income to look after more kids than they have, or the patience to deal with them, or even likes kids that much. Its unfair on the kids to have to live in families where they arent looked after or arent wanted. I feel so sorry for Michelle Duggar's kids, as they dont get much parental love, theyre being raised by their siblings and they arent allowed to follow their dreams unless it is what their parents want from them....like a lot of fundie kids. Sure, thousands of years ago, having loads of kids would be expected and important because of how often they died, you needed to have about 10 of them to make sure at least a few survived til adulthood to pass their genes on, but now, because of advancements in science and medicine, the world wouldnt end if most people decided to have two or three.

Also, nobody should use condoms because they are disgusting is not a good reason...

Yes, the birth of a baby is a great joy...but sometimes people dont want another kid, or would love one but dont know how they are ever going to manage as theres not enough money for them (especially if welfare is stopped, as it feeds so many poor children whos parents dont have enough money to look after them, just because you have money to have 7 kids and feed them all, doesnt mean everyone else does). You say babies are a blessing and everyone should have as many as possible, but how would you react to hearing of a woman on welfare who just had her 10th. You probably wouldnt think of that as a blessing, even though it might not be her being lazy, she and/or her husband might have lost their jobs and theres no money, or they had very low paying jobs and kept on having kids but didnt have the money to feed them all, like you think is such a good idea.

I think that forcing people to have as many children as possible is just as wrong as forcing someone to abort a wanted pregnancy. It takes the right to choose away from others, and as someone who is pro choice, if someone wants to have a large family, fine. If someone wants to have one kid, three, four, ten or none at all, thats fine by me.

We dont judge you for having 7 kids, we judge you because you teach them evil and hatefulness, beat them with a paddle and are just a generally unpleasant person.

[mirele]

:shock:

Erm, chica needs to understand that the vast majority of her federal tax bill goes to support the Department of Defense. Very little goes to "welfare" as she's thinking of it.

Oh yeah, and Zsu? I fucking pay my taxes, even though I resent the fact that an obscene chunk of it goes to the Department of Defense to make more wars. I'd also put my tax return up against yours and the Pissing Preacher's any day of the week. I'm SURE, in between the fact that I am only one deduction and you and PP have a total of NINE deductions (including yourselves), plus you have some sweet tax breaks because you have a parsonage allowance, that I pay WAY MORE in taxes overall than you do, even if the PP makes more money than I do (which, in between the church gig and the alarm biz, is entirely possible).

But I still find the money to donate to charity. I do not want to brag on myself, but for Thanksgiving I gave a charitable contribution to a local organization which provides food backpacks to needy kids (also eligible for the free lunch program) in the Mesa Public Schools so the kids have something to eat over the weekends and come back on Monday ready to learn. But that, to you, would be wrong, because the kids should be home schooled and OOOOOOH, EBIL WELFARE.

In other words, lady, STFU. And Fuck Off. You'd bring back the poorhouses if you could.

[longskirtlotsakids]

Let her breed. I'll laugh when shes single and providing for 15 kids on her own. The PP is so close to breaking into total lunacy, it's only a matter of time till he snaps.

[mirele]

Let her breed. I'll laugh when shes single and providing for 15 kids on her own. The PP is so close to breaking into total lunacy, it's only a matter of time till he snaps.

I hope if it does happen, it doesn't involve the Border Patrol agents or the locals, we don't deserve it...OH SNAP. I forgot. My office is now on the other side of the freeway from PP's church. I suppose I ought to drive by there and scope out the scene some lunch hour, as it's too dark after work now. (I've been griping about the number of badge swipes it takes to get into my parking lot/building/office suite, but it does keep the riffraff out.)

[JesusFightClub]

The gouvernmental welfare programs are funded by the taxpayer isn't it? What is the difference? One way or another it is about regulated solidarity, what is so wrong about that? She'd rather has random and occasional hands out from random, sympathetic people?

It is obvious that she doesn't understand the concept that 'we are the 'gouvernment'.

Apparantly Emile Zola and Charles Dickens were not on her book list.

Zsu is an idiot.

Oh I forgot, that is called a civilised society Zsu!

Stop making sense, LaTraviata. Zsu is going to struggle with any of the concepts you just mentioned.

Also, she is a super bitch. If it's not happening to her she doesn't care. If it is, SHE deserves all the benefits in the world but no one else does.

[salsa]

QFT. I am so sick of people invoking 'the past' as a justification for their nonsense. The only reason the past seems nice is that we don't live there anymore. (note: that's me shouting)

And even so, I doubt she'd be one of those giving to charity. I recall her once saying that the church is not an ATM. I do know that people try to take advantage of churches, but I don't think that's what she means. She's too high and mighty to give to anyone she thinks doesn't deserve help - and the list of those who wouldn't deserve help is pretty long.

[OkToBeTakei]

Maybe she is such a twisted bitch because seriously, so would I be if I had to biblically procreate with that twat she lives with.

[Pudicitia]

In very early Christianity, widows were encouraged not to re-marry, as there was an emphasis on sexual continence. As it was often socially difficult for women to support themselves financially in the ancient world, they were supported by the church. Eventually, the church got annoyed with supporting lots of young widows and their children, and suddenly the line changed to suggest that young widows should definitely re-marry and have lots of babies...

[Marian the Librarian]

Hey Zsu - my workplace charitable donation has, for many years, gone to Planned Parenthood. This year, I'm doing it in your family's name. Just think - a donation to PP in honor of Zsu and the PP!!!

:lol: