The "good old days," when you could beat the $#!+ out of

[Hane]

kids--and it "wasn't considered abuse."

Warning: TL;DR danger ahead, but this-all got me REALLY rattled today.

This was the topic of a loud and lengthy conversation taking place in my work area this afternoon. Two men and a woman, all around my age (50s-60s), were holding forth about how they were struck with everything from sneaker soles to thorny rosebush switches, but they learned to behave themselves--unlike these spoiled kids today.

I started getting physically ill, and I got up and shocked myself by snapping, "That's bull$#!+. It IS abuse. I used to get my head banged against the wall. I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THIS. It's upsetting me." Then I went back to what I was doing. They immediately quieted down and changed the subject.

Now, please be aware that I never swear at work--I work in a fairly conservative office environment.

But here's the kicker: One of these people is known as The IT Guy Who Constantly Tells You How BUSY He Always Is, But Spends a Metric Buttload of His Time Sitting Around BS-ing With People. He took my PC to the shop to re-image it Tuesday afternoon, and swore on a stack of bibles that I'd have it back first thing Thursday morning (I telecommuted all day Wednesday). No--I didn't get the PC back till after 4 on Thursday, and the work on it still wasn't finished. Oh, and I first submitted the repair ticket last month.

Another is known as The Secretary Who Does Practically Nothing. Back in April, she promised to format a regulatory document for one of my teammates, and it still wasn't done in late September--deadline was September 30. My teammate asked me if I'd be able to help, if push came to shove, and I agreed. So it took Teammate telling Secretary AND the Boss Lady, "Look, if you're having trouble, Hane has offered to do this for me" to get the work done. Secretary realized it was time to step up to the plate, and finally got the job done. After only six months. And the actual work took less than a day.

So, if getting the crap beaten out of them was such a wonderfully formative experience, why does it take lowering the boom in order for these folks to do their work? Are they still waiting for the threat of that figurative sneaker sole or rosebush switch before they'll take any initiative?

[lilwriter85]

I encounter people like from time to time. The most recent event was at my uncle's funeral back in January. Right before the funeral mass, my mom's cousin, her daughter, and her grandson sat in the pew in front of us. About ten minutes before the mass was to start, the grandson who is 3 started acting up. The daughter took him out of the church and my mom's cousin whispered back to us, "I wonder if she will give him a spanking". I hope she does, but things are different these days and everything is considered child abuse". That pissed me off, but I didn't want to cause an argument at the funeral.

[Arete]

There is no doing anything with old people, except thanking God that they no longer make decisions for any children. :pray:

So, Hane, you going to start bringing a wooden spoon and a belt to work to keep projects on track? :P

[Hane]

Yeah--it's always tough when you're in a situation like that. At my nephew's graduation, I was in the middle of a tightly packed crowd of people who were leaving for the parking lot. A boorish woman near me started hollering at her two-year-old for not walking fast enough, then swatting at her. It was impossible for me to have said or done anything--it would have caused a riot.

[Hane]

There is no doing anything with old people, except thanking God that they no longer make decisions for any children. :pray:

So, Hane, you going to start bringing a wooden spoon and a belt to work to keep projects on track? :P

Oh, Christ--my mother's weapons of choice. Thanks for the memories. [struggles to keep from hurling up dinner]

Hey--I'm an old people, and anyone who tries to lay a finger on my grandchild is going to draw back a stump.

[valsa]

Yeah--it's always tough when you're in a situation like that. At my nephew's graduation, I was in the middle of a tightly packed crowd of people who were leaving for the parking lot. A boorish woman near me started hollering at her two-year-old for not walking fast enough, then swatting at her. It was impossible for me to have said or done anything--it would have caused a riot.

I once saw a woman in Walmart screaming at a little girl (maybe 3 years old) for being whiny- at almost 1 o'clock in the morning. Because apparently toddlers can pull all-nighters without whining. Even though I know it would have been stupid to say something, I'm still pissed I didn't.

[Arete]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to dredge up stuff best left undisturbed. :oops:

[Hane]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to dredge up stuff best left undisturbed. :oops:

Not your fault--and, anyway, the douchecanoes at work already took care of the dredging, in spades.

[Arete]

Flower for you

[thoughtful]

There is no doing anything with old people, except thanking God that they no longer make decisions for any children. :pray:

I'm not sure being old is any excuse. I'm almost 60, and have changed lots of things about my behavior in the last few years.

My Mom is in her mid-80s, and has changed things about herself recently, as well.

I'm happy to say that wanting to hit children was never part of either of our lives, but we have changed other things.

I don't give my fellow crones and codgers a pass -- sometimes we need to learn, too. :D

Hane, sorry your coworkers were being assholes.

I think it's interesting that the "I got hit and I turned out OK" people have issues with work ethics -- it doesn't surprise me a bit.

"If nobody's watching or threatening, goof off" is one of the many crappy lessons of that kind of upbringing.

[CallmeChaCha]

I completely agree with you Hane. I do have to say, though, as a 20-something old first-generation American-born with Mexican parents, there are a lot of 20- and 30-something year-olds with the same heritage and background as me that feel the same way as your co-workers (they used to get hit with everything from a belt to a chancla [flip flop], and kids today are really spoiled). Sadly, in this case, it has to do with our culture, and I'm sure there are plenty of people my age that hit their children because "it's okay/normal" since they went through it and they "turned out fine". :( So, for some people it's still the good ol' days where child abuse is non-existent.

[nokidsmom]

Grew up in the 60's - 70's. My folks did resort to spanking but not often but sometimes it was with a brush. :shock: By the standards of the day, they were hardly considered abusive. Knew lots of kids who got a lot worse.

However, going into the 70's there was greater awareness of child abuse and parents actually getting into trouble with the law / CPS for it. All of a sudden my folks realized that it was a different world out there and they could get in trouble for the relatively "mild" punishments they meted out. They were a little scared after that. Especially after my high school counselor advised me in front of me mum to tell him of any abuse I might be dealing with.

[Maude]

I was hit with a belt as a kid, and this was the 90s. I've told my parents flat-out that I resent it, and I do. Some people who are or were spanked end up 'just fine,' as they say, but I hold to the belief that it's in spite of it and not because of it.

[nokidsmom]

I was hit with a belt as a kid, and this was the 90s. I've told my parents flat-out that I resent it, and I do. Some people who are or were spanked turn out 'fine,' as they say, but I hold to the belief that it's in spite of it and not because of it.

Totally agree here. And my folks sure as hell know it.

To be honest, I stopped my folks from continuing any hitting (they stopped spanking after me and my sisters hit puberty and slapped instead) when me mum suddenly slapped me when I was 15 when she thought I was sassing her over something. Now, sassing was not typically something they hit over, but the fact she just went off on me like that made me snap. I actually told her that if she did that again, I was reporting her to my high school counselor who was sure as hell to call CPS. Not my greatest moment perhaps, as I am not the type to leverage people, but I was seriously pissed and at 15 years old, realized I didn't have to take it.

[SomewhatFundy]

I learned to be very passive-aggressive and sneaky due to my parents belting and whipping me. Sure, I was in all outward appearances a very well behaved child. However, I pulled a LOT of dangerous and obnoxious stunts that my parents still don't know about. The spankings didn't make me a better kid, just a better actor and liar.

All the kids on my block received similar punishments, as I lived in a small town in the midwest and it was quite common. Many of my former classmates from elementary school are now in prison, and have severe drug habits. They were spanked just as much as I was, so clearly spanking didn't help THEM.

[mirele]

My mom used to hit us with her hand until she broke a blood vessel. Then she switched to the metal mesh fly swatter. All that did was make me a better liar. She stopped hitting me when I was 12 and we moved from California to Texas. I think it was in part due to the fact that I was taller than her and in part on kids were getting hit in school on a regular basis by teachers, which is something she thought was terribly wrong. (Go figure.)

[Hane]

Flower for you

Thanks, sweetie!

[O Latin]

I've heard people in their 20s talk like that, although it's not usually specifically in regards to spanking/hitting but more just a general sense of "WE never would have gotten away with that when we were kids." It's that whole thing about every generation thinking the next one is going to hell in a handbasket.

[Muriel]

I have very bad memories of being spanked during my childhood :cry:

My Mom used a small whip, that was of common use to discipline children in the 70's in France, I don't know in other countries... I don't think it is still in use nowadays, but it used to be pretty mainstream and you could buy them in supermarket.

I decided not to spank my children and I never did, my children are not out of control, they are quite well behaved and I don't think we have done a too bad job in our none spanking home :)

They are 17, 15 and 11 right now.

[Hane]

Muriel, good for you!

And, on a cheerier note, the pup in your avatar looks a lot like my Peke!

[Muriel]

Muriel, good for you!

And, on a cheerier note, the pup in your avatar looks a lot like my Peke!

The lady is Barbara Cartland, the English romance novels writer, I have seen many pictures of her with pretty little dogs like this one !

[Kristelle]

I'm 19, and I remember getting hit pretty often, mostly by my dad. My mom and I were/are really close, and just the thought of disappointing her kept me in line for things she didn't like. However, my most vivid memory of my dad's "discipline" was when I was 14 or 15 and he dragged me around by my hair for not getting up on time. My brother and I got hit a lot for arguing (we absolutely did not get along until I left for college last year).

[gilora]

Using corporal punishment on a child as "training" or "character development" is just a bullshit excuse from out-of-control parents. When I was a kid, my father's preferred method of punishment was the bare-bottom spanking. When I hit my teenage years, he switched to twisting my arm, giving me knuckle punches on my upper arms or pushing at me while chasing me down the stairs. It taught me nothing except that he was a figure to fear and resent. When I was 16 he left my mom for another woman and I actually breathed a sigh of relief. I'm 41 and he's nearly 70, and while our relationship is better, it will never be normal.

He can't believe how "permissive" I am with my own children and comments on how "spoiled" they are. I told him that he was a great parenting model -- in any given situation I think about what he would do and I try to do the opposite.

[themadapple]

I've noticed that some people who had the shit beat out of them in the "good old days" - and even in the not too distant past - use it as a point of pride and recall their various beatings with relish, in a twisted way. As in, "yeah, when I was bad, my parents whacked me several times with a cast iron skillet and I turned out to be an upstanding member of the community." Or, "yeah, I had to go out and cut my own switch, it was awesome." Or "my dad used his belt, because men were men in those days!" :roll:

[Rosa]

did you guys see the article about Kate from Jon & Kate + 8 hitting her kids with a wooden spoon? I think it was in Star (so you know, take it with a grain of salt) but the tone was so SHOCKED! and SURPRISED! - when I was a kid my mom and everybody else's mom hit with a wooden spoon. Kept it in her purse to scare us with when we were out and about. That was in the '70s and early '80s.

I can't believe most of Star's readership would think that was a bad thing at all, truthfully. It's unfortunately really common to end up in the middle of these pro-hitting discussions.