Modern "Alternative" Mama & the college "delusion"

[MonkeyMomma]

Have we discussed this blogger before? Kate Tietje blogs as the "Modern Alternative Mama" which she bills as "living the non-mainstream life!" (Special snowflake alert!) I was introduced to her babblings when she was a blogger at Babble's Being Pregnant. She went down in infamy for writing that she loves her son more than her daughter, and that she would be OK if her daughter died, but devastated if she lost her son. Then she posted some really misleading BS about vaccines.

So, anyway, her blog is all homeschooling/GAPS diet/churchy stuff. I eventually got bored lurking it. Until she popped up on the comments of one of the mom bloggers I follow (The Feminist Breeder ... judge how you will, but she makes me laugh). So I went back to snooping, and was rewarded with this preciousness.

Many of our readers know that we are homeschooling our children — unschooling them, actually. Some like to ask us the question “What will your children do about college? Will they be able to get in? Will they be adequately prepared?â€

While studies show that homeschooled children typically have no issue getting into college, and actually succeed beyond their public-schooled counterparts, the answer is: we don’t necessarily want them to go to college at all.

Say what?

Today (and for the last 10 or 15 years), it’s been considered necessary to go to college after high school. If you don’t go, there’s something wrong with you. All smart young people who wish to be successful in life must attend college. It is simply what you do after high school, before you start life. But I propose that college not only isn’t necessary (for many), it’s not even beneficial. I think we’ve all been suffering under what I call “the college delusion.â€

She later admits in the comments that her BA with a double major in German and English opened up a lot of doors for her to try interesting things after college. :doh:

I admit, she's probably not as bad as some of the fundies we discuss here, but she certainly grinds my gears enough.

modernalternativemama.com/blog/2012/09/21/the-college-delusion/#.UF-wh46j-_Y

edited to break link

[meda]

Yeah, she really is an unpleasant one. She runs in the same circles as Leslie from Passionate Homemaking and Tina from All That is Good. They all write "real food" ebooks and cross market off each other's blogs. She pisses me off more than the others because she was not born into this, she has a degree, drank the kool aid, and is inflicting this shit on her children. Also, her behavior after the whole drama over the on line (Internet is forever Katie) favoring of her son was pretty shitty. If I remember, she got hyp defensive, claimed she had depression or PPD with the daughter so that totally justified her preference for the boy, shut down the blog for a bit, and then reopened with a shiny website to market herself. I had actually forgotten her, now I am all cranky again. :evil:

[meda]

I particularly loves this comment she left bitching out commenters for suggesting she should get some therapy:

Did NONE of you EVER have mothers that taught you that if you don’t like something, to keep your mouth shut and walk away?! Instead of reading what you know to be a tiny, tiny snapshot into my life and condemning in nasty, insane voices — yes, INSANE — why don’t you understand that you, like everyone, have also had crazy thoughts. And then just walk away. Got it? And go back and read my update to my last post. I NEVER “wished my daughter was dead†nor would I. Do you understand that? I’d be ready to kill YOU if you came to my house and told me you were taking her. If that was the only way to stop you, that is what I would do. I would stop at nothing to protect her. Yes, this is a public forum. I accept that. I understand that. I’ve considered that. And I would choose to share this with my daughter anyway so I do not think that this is a horrible, horrible thing. That is MY choice. This is MY life! I shared in hopes that it could help other women who feel the same and feel they are all alone. Because they are not. And some of them get it. Some don’t.

So if you don’t like it, walk away. I’m an AWESOME mother and I don’t have to justify ANYTHING to any of you.

Truly modeling Christ here.

[snarkbillie]

I have a favorite kid. It changes between them about ever 30 seconds though. Whoever is sweetest at that moment is my favorite. I would never tell them that though and honestly I would be devastated if something happened to either of them at any time. Even right now when the one has just stomped away "I hate you!" and slammed her door, I love her as much as I love her sibling.

[ElphabaGalinda]

That level of preference for her son is disgusting and I hope her daughter never comes across it (Internet being forever and all that). Her daughter's going to figure out how her mother feels somehow though.

Sure not everyone wants to (or should) go to college, but it's becoming necessary for more and more things. And she isn't taking into consideration what her children might want to do. Shouldn't she want to give her children every opportunity to do what they want? What I hate most of all is people who want to deny their children the opportunities they had. So she got to have interesting opportunities from college but her children never get to.

[Kitty]

Great, another know-it-all who thinks she's too food for college and so are her kids.

"It's so expensive!" These types whine. "Is it really necessary for absolutely everything?"

Well instead of.fucking your kids over and telling them that college is only for snooty rich bitch smartypants kids, how about you get off your ass, realize that sending your kids to college will at least give them a leg up, and actually do something to make it affordable?

And you know she's only saying this shit because she can't afford it for her kids.

[lizziesmom]

I am continually baffled by people who blog and seek attention and then get all bent out of shape when someone criticizes them. Don't they know you can never please everyone and someone is always going to disagree with you?

[MonkeyMomma]

And you know she's only saying this shit because she can't afford it for her kids.

Quite possibly. Although it was a well-known fact in our family that we couldn't afford college, so the younguns were required to bust ass and get scholarships and take out loans and work. I don't want to poo-poo the cost of college, because it really is steep (and getting steeper), but when you instill a value in a kid, sometimes it really sticks.

Although, I do detect a hint of "Look at me, I'm so *alternative*!!" with her. All of her writing seems to exude just how unique, special, and smart Kate thinks she is.

[fedelm]

Part of me is sympathetic because I have a strong-willed 3 year old and 3 sucks. Everyone told me that the "terrible twos" were nothing compared to the "shoot me in the head threes." It's been rough, but holy crap I don't for a second think I prefer my 6 month old baby boy to my 3 year old girl. The fact that she thought all that out enough to have typed it out means her relationship with her daughter is pretty much totally fucked forever. I feel so bad for that poor girl.

[Rosa]

The thing is, a good primary/secondary education is necessary for EVERYTHING.

There are some things you only need to do to get accepted into a college - keep transcripts, learn test-taking skills, take some college-prep stuff, I don't know what all but some of it really is just to get into college.

But the rest of schooling? Learning to think critically, to evaluate sources, to test hypotheses, to analyze data? You need that for LIFE. You need to know if the new MLM dude in your congregation is giving you impossible numbers. You need to know if evidence REALLY shows that using a microwave gives you brain cancer. You need to be able to learn from a manual how to operate machinery. You need to be able to calculate how much fertilizer/acre the manufacturer recommendation means you should apply. You have to be able to do the math to understand your paycheck and taxes.

And then there's understanding how written sources work, how to read graphs and timetables and comparisons, plus cultural allusions at least a smattering of art and poetry and music. Right now my son's reading group at school (he's in second grade) is learning, like, how books work. "Is this fiction or nonfiction? How can you tell? Who wrote it? Where did you find that information? Are the pictures artwork or photographs?" It's the very basic building blocks, not of literacy, but of how we transmit information in our culture.

Good schooling - public or home or private - is not just about "can my child go to college someday". It's about giving them the tools to be successful, resilient, and ADAPTABLE adults. Not aiming for college doesn't mean throwing up your hands and teaching Bible, Homemake, and basic arithmetic for 8 years.

[YPestis]

There's certainly an anti-college bent in many fundies' writings. What they don't realize is that while college is not for everywhere, you limit your child's choices and opportunities when you impart such anti-college, anti-intellectual attitudes. Children should learn that college is out there for them if and when they decide to go, not something to avoid and show contempt for. These kids will be in for a rude awakening when they realize that they're education and their contempt for high learning is not shared by the rest of the world.

[Gil]

I like how she acts like the reader is definitely going to be shocked. As though this were a really novel idea that not every fundie blogger and their dog espouses.

[Arete]

The thing is, a good primary/secondary education is necessary for EVERYTHING.

There are some things you only need to do to get accepted into a college - keep transcripts, learn test-taking skills, take some college-prep stuff, I don't know what all but some of it really is just to get into college.

But the rest of schooling? Learning to think critically, to evaluate sources, to test hypotheses, to analyze data? You need that for LIFE. You need to know if the new MLM dude in your congregation is giving you impossible numbers. You need to know if evidence REALLY shows that using a microwave gives you brain cancer. You need to be able to learn from a manual how to operate machinery. You need to be able to calculate how much fertilizer/acre the manufacturer recommendation means you should apply. You have to be able to do the math to understand your paycheck and taxes.

And then there's understanding how written sources work, how to read graphs and timetables and comparisons, plus cultural allusions at least a smattering of art and poetry and music. Right now my son's reading group at school (he's in second grade) is learning, like, how books work. "Is this fiction or nonfiction? How can you tell? Who wrote it? Where did you find that information? Are the pictures artwork or photographs?" It's the very basic building blocks, not of literacy, but of how we transmit information in our culture.

Good schooling - public or home or private - is not just about "can my child go to college someday". It's about giving them the tools to be successful, resilient, and ADAPTABLE adults. Not aiming for college doesn't mean throwing up your hands and teaching Bible, Homemake, and basic arithmetic for 8 years.

+1. Preach Rosa.

[mockingbird]

If you want to be a doctor…you do need college. If you want to be a computer engineer…you need college.

We will be encouraging our kids to figure out what they really want to do with their lives, and if needed trying out internships, apprenticeships, etc. so that they are sure of their path before choosing to go to college or not. Should they choose a path in life that requires college, we’ll do whatever we can to support them in going to the school of their choice. (We are saving money for all of them to go right now.)

I do have to say that the fact that she is saving money for all of them to go to college is encouraging. However, I feel like her daughter will be influenced not to choose something that requires a college degree because the women's place is in the home... and who knows if they will place more value on careers that don't "need" college vs. those that do (eta for all their kids not just the daughter).

I also think there is something to be said for the critical thinking skills and overall learning one receives at (an accredited) college. I mean, most degrees DON'T lead directly to a career but that doesn't make them worthless. Things like critical thinking, greater reading comprehension and writing skills, an ability to form and defend a coherent argument, analyzing a source, etc. are all things I learned from my English BA that I can use in my future career, even though I am training to be a doctor of medicine, not literature.

As for the "college experience" thing, I think it is a good idea to live on your own without a partner before you get married and I think being independent in a relatively "safe" environment is part of what people value about the "college experience". You need to have some idea how to function in the real world in case something happens. I would think it's possible for someone non-fundy to learn how to be independent while living with their parents but the fundy SAHDs are going from being dependent on their fathers to dependent on their husbands and they are being set up for failure if something happens to their husbands or god forbid they want out of the marriage/lifestyle. I like the commenter who pointed out that it's a good idea for someone who wants to be a SAHM to have a back-up plan just in case.

Also, +2 for Rosa.

[easternabeille]

That level of preference for her son is disgusting and I hope her daughter never comes across it (Internet being forever and all that). Her daughter's going to figure out how her mother feels somehow though.

Sure not everyone wants to (or should) go to college, but it's becoming necessary for more and more things. And she isn't taking into consideration what her children might want to do. Shouldn't she want to give her children every opportunity to do what they want? What I hate most of all is people who want to deny their children the opportunities they had. So she got to have interesting opportunities from college but her children never get to.

We actually discussed her a bit on the old board: http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/6126/M ... GAW-VE4z_c

I remember her from a post she wrote on Babble where she admitted to loving her son more than her daughter. It's all online (complete with photos!) for her daughter to find some day.

http://blogs.babble.com/being-pregnant/ ... ment-13119

This is one blogger that I absolutely cannot deal with. In one of her older blog posts (don't know if she still has it up) she all but blamed people with cancer for bringing it on themselves by eating meat.

[hapamama]

My great-grandparents were poor illiterate farmers. The majority of their children who survived to see adulthood not only got high school diplomas, but also went to college through scholarships. My grandfather managed to finish college between being shoved in an internment camp and serving in the Army during two different wars (WWII and Korean).

If you work hard enough, coming from a poor family shouldn't stop you.

[skrmom]

Granted, college is not for everyone. There are many jobs that do not require a Bachelor's degree that pay well: plumber, mechanic, electrician, etc-but these jobs require vocational training. Truck drivers can make a very good salary as well.

However, I hate to see a child denied the chance to go to college.

[FlorenceHamilton]

The thing is, a good primary/secondary education is necessary for EVERYTHING.

There are some things you only need to do to get accepted into a college - keep transcripts, learn test-taking skills, take some college-prep stuff, I don't know what all but some of it really is just to get into college.

But the rest of schooling? Learning to think critically, to evaluate sources, to test hypotheses, to analyze data? You need that for LIFE. You need to know if the new MLM dude in your congregation is giving you impossible numbers. You need to know if evidence REALLY shows that using a microwave gives you brain cancer. You need to be able to learn from a manual how to operate machinery. You need to be able to calculate how much fertilizer/acre the manufacturer recommendation means you should apply. You have to be able to do the math to understand your paycheck and taxes.

And then there's understanding how written sources work, how to read graphs and timetables and comparisons, plus cultural allusions at least a smattering of art and poetry and music. Right now my son's reading group at school (he's in second grade) is learning, like, how books work. "Is this fiction or nonfiction? How can you tell? Who wrote it? Where did you find that information? Are the pictures artwork or photographs?" It's the very basic building blocks, not of literacy, but of how we transmit information in our culture.

Good schooling - public or home or private - is not just about "can my child go to college someday". It's about giving them the tools to be successful, resilient, and ADAPTABLE adults. Not aiming for college doesn't mean throwing up your hands and teaching Bible, Homemake, and basic arithmetic for 8 years.

THIS!!!! YES!!!!! :clap:

[Kitchen Princess]

There's a whole movement questioning college, and it's not a fundie movement at all. Here's a new book just out. http://www.blakeboles.com/portfolio/bet ... n-college/

Fundies believe that once you get your eighth grade education, you're good to go. But the rethinking-college movement is not that way at all. College is optional, but education is not.

[Arete]

There's a whole movement questioning college, and it's not a fundie movement at all. Here's a new book just out. http://www.blakeboles.com/portfolio/bet ... n-college/

Fundies believe that once you get your eighth grade education, you're good to go. But the rethinking-college movement is not that way at all. College is optional, but education is not.

Agreed that not everybody needs a college education, but fundies use this reasoning to undereducate their children in Grades 1-12 even further.

ETA-Whoops, I think you were saying that. I definitely fail reading comprehension today.

[AnnieC 305]

There's certainly an anti-college bent in many fundies' writings. What they don't realize is that while college is not for everywhere, you limit your child's choices and opportunities when you impart such anti-college, anti-intellectual attitudes. Children should learn that college is out there for them if and when they decide to go, not something to avoid and show contempt for. These kids will be in for a rude awakening when they realize that they're education and their contempt for high learning is not shared by the rest of the world.

Given that most high schools these days don't impart the kinds of skills and knowledge you need to get a career past minimum wage some kind of secondary education (college, skills training program, apprenticeship) is essential to get anywhere in this world. By imparting such anti-college, anti-intellectual attitudes they're condemning their children to fourth-class citizenship, to forever being part of a different culture that will never be truly successful in the modern world and will forever be isolated from the rest of us.

The problem, of course, being that we share a government with that culture and they still vote. Sound familiar? (insert missing Confederate smiley here)

[Katydid]

I hate that blogger with a passion. She's the same one who said flat out that she loves her daughter more than her son, and that she'd be less sad if he died than if the girl did. She's also anti-vax and anti-modern medicine, and I am VERY pro-science. I hope she stops blogging her drivel.

[Freyacat]

Oh, she's one I love to hate! The original version of the article about how she preferred her son was actually even worse than what you can find now; it's been edited. She also said she wants her family to be "the next Duggars" here: blogs.babble.com/being-pregnant/2011/03/14/we-want-to-be-the-next-duggars/

I followed her blog during her third pregnancy. It was chock full of crazy medical woo, like putting yogurt in your vagina to treat group B strep: modernalternativemama.com/blog/2011/3/23/healthy-pregnancy-series-group-b-strep-test.html

And the part that drives me craziest is that she thinks she is SO SPESHUL. You can almost see her looking down her nose and rolling her eyes at people who disagree with her. She's way into homebirthing. I have no desire to cause a derail into a homebirth discussion, but suffice to say that she makes it very clear how much better she thinks she is than people who aren't interested in homebirth. She's also way into her own particular food preferences. OK, sure, a lot of people are all about whole, organic food. No problem. Thing is, most of them aren't extremely snotty when talking about people who don't feel the same way. Kate Tietje is. It's the same with pretty much anything. She thinks 1. that she is the first person to EVAR do any of these things that are, honestly, pretty par for the course with crunchy mamas, and 2. she thinks she is WAY smarter than people who don't do the same things, rather than thinking "Hey, maybe that's just not their thing."

[MonkeyMomma]

Oh, she's one I love to hate! The original version of the article about how she preferred her son was actually even worse than what you can find now; it's been edited. She also said she wants her family to be "the next Duggars" here: blogs.babble.com/being-pregnant/2011/03/14/we-want-to-be-the-next-duggars/

I followed her blog during her third pregnancy. It was chock full of crazy medical woo, like putting yogurt in your vagina to treat group B strep: modernalternativemama.com/blog/2011/3/23/healthy-pregnancy-series-group-b-strep-test.html

And the part that drives me craziest is that she thinks she is SO SPESHUL. You can almost see her looking down her nose and rolling her eyes at people who disagree with her. She's way into homebirthing. I have no desire to cause a derail into a homebirth discussion, but suffice to say that she makes it very clear how much better she thinks she is than people who aren't interested in homebirth. She's also way into her own particular food preferences. OK, sure, a lot of people are all about whole, organic food. No problem. Thing is, most of them aren't extremely snotty when talking about people who don't feel the same way. Kate Tietje is. It's the same with pretty much anything. She thinks 1. that she is the first person to EVAR do any of these things that are, honestly, pretty par for the course with crunchy mamas, and 2. she thinks she is WAY smarter than people who don't do the same things, rather than thinking "Hey, maybe that's just not their thing."

You have hit all the nails on all their respective heads. I remember reading that "we want to be the next Duggars, hee hee!" post and realizing, in that moment, Babble crossed some invisible line from the rad, irreverent parenting community I loved during my pregnancy into a pit of despair.