200 year plan

[VintageJen1984]

Someone should tell Geoff Botkin that part of HIS father's 200 year plan involves Geoff and his children being Catholic. :o :lol:

[ILoveJellybeans]

Thats kinda sad, to try and plan out your ancestors lives, people are people, this isnt a Sims game.

Sounds like the kind of thing my teenage sister would do-she has planned out everything for her future life, how many kids she will have and what sex they will be, what they become when they grow up, who they will marry, how many kids they will have...but it doesnt work that way, you cant always plan life out like that.

[debrand]

In the 1700's one of my ancestors fought for the British. I suppose his 200 year plan would have had a statement about remaining loyal to the British crown. :lol:

[lilah]

It teaches our children about nobility and the duties of our priestly position.

Like staying at home all day writing blog posts about Disney characters. Let's refresh, folks.

This is noble.

This is not.

Geoffry claims he prayed over his daughter's wombs when they were hours old that they'd have lots and lots of Christian babies.

He did not pray that they'd grow up to be lazy stuck up nitwit who spent their days writing crappy reviews of Disney movies and seminars

[luckystone]

Geeeeeze we're really not dealing with a brain trust here, are we? :roll:

Love it

[jenny_islander]

In the 1700's one of my ancestors fought for the British. I suppose his 200 year plan would have had a statement about remaining loyal to the British crown. :lol:

Yeah, 200 years ago my ancestors pretty much all hated each other! Irish, Welsh, English, German, Scottish . . .

My husband may or may not have a great-great-great from one of the tribes near the Great Lakes. He definitely has white farmers from around the Great Lakes in his family tree, though. Something tells me the two groups had somewhat different 200-year plans.

[jaynie]

I'm trying to imagine what my ancestors in 1812 would have planned for me, but the entire concept is so ridiculous that my brain keeps trying to strangle itself out of desperation. Apart from all of the cultural changes that have occurred since then, the difference in technology is staggering, the countries we live in have changed, and the difference in quality of life has changed massively. I would say my ancestors 200 year plan would be "I hope some of our descendants don't starve to death or die of preventable illnesses." Not "I hope my great-however-many granddaughter sits on her ass all day talking about feminism on the Internet, in a country that is currently a colony." Even if you're just talking about breeding, there have been so many advancements in that field in the last century, and I'm certain there are more to come.

Having a 200 year plan presupposes that the world will be exactly the same in 200 years as it is now. Despite the fact that the world changes constantly, and isn't even the same as it was two decades ago. It's so ridiculously short-sighted it would be hilarious, if he wasn't making his immediate offspring live it out.

[MonkeyMomma]

I just finished reading Kathryn Joyce's Quiverfull, and she talks about this. It's in the chapter on daughters, which is absolutely creeptastic. She also talks about Geoff praying over newborn Anna Sofia's ovaries while his wife was bleeding out from childbirth :shock:

Here we are, almost 30 years later, and god has apparently not answered his prayers. Geoff's grandchild count stands at...1? 2? Hard to end up with those tens of thousands of descendents in 200 years if you can't get past the next generation. Geoff can't even make his vision happen with his own children during his life, how does he presume to make the plan happen long after he's dead? :?

That's where I read it! Thankfully, the creator of the universe was apparently like, "Um, no thanks, creepo, let's shut this down before it gets started."

[bbfreethinker]

I'm trying to imagine some family member drafting a plan for me back in the 1700s. Wtf, um no Great great great great grandaddy.

I have Catholic & Mennonite (and who know what else) ancestors. Whose 200 year plan am I supposed to follow?? I'm so confused :?

[Sola]

I find it ironic that Botkin actually thinks that he will have any influence on his descendants 200 years down the line.

[Bethella]

I have Catholic & Mennonite (and who know what else) ancestors. Whose 200 year plan am I supposed to follow?? I'm so confused :?

I suspect you should follow the plan of your father's father' father's father' father (is that the right number of generations? :think:) Because in each generation the husband's plan will obviously override his wife's father's plan, because the father-in-law is giving away his daughter and his authority over her. Right? :roll: But only if that great-great-great-grandfather was a upright and godly Christian. If he wasn't- you don't need to pay attention to him.

[19 dogs and counting]

I just read how to draft my very own 200 year plan. In the guide Geoff admits to raising his daughters only for "officers" I.e. great leaders. I guess this is why they aren't married yet. Nobody lives up to Dad's expectations. Too bad their blessed ovaries are going to waste. If I had waited for my father's approval I might never have been married either.

[singsingsing]

I'm sure the 200-year-plan of my direct paternal great-great-great-great-great-grandfather (not that he would have been literate or insane enough to make one) would've had me as a French Canadian Catholic farm wife with about five kids by now, so I guess I'm doing it wrong.

The utter absurdity of a man thinking he can make a 200-year plan for his descendants is just unreal. I come from a line of people where it was the norm, up until about the middle of the 20th century, to have 12-14 children. This also seems to be the ideal for fundies. Well, say you have ten kids, and even half of them also have large families. By the time 200 years has passed, you're going to have so many descendants, there's no way they're all going to slot into your master plan. Even if all of your children and all of your grandchildren hold to your beliefs and lifestyle (which is unlikely), the world changes, societies change, people move, disasters happen, discoveries are made... like I said, 200 years ago if one of my ancestors had thought, "I wonder what my g-g-g-g-granddaughter will be doing two centuries from now?" he probably would've pictured me as a Catholic French-speaking farm wife, not an English city-dwelling university student.

I just can't believe anyone would seriously construct a plan like this for their family. You have to be out of your freaking mind.

[singsingsing]

I just went through some of his info about how to make a 200 year plan for your family. It's actually terrifying. This is one sick, sick man.

[Michael Mock]

Okay, this probably isn't the place to admit it, but I have a 200 year plan. It'll work, too, if I succeed in discovering the secret to Immortality within the next thirty years or so. See, I figure that once I've accomplished that, I can start building the secret lair, followed by the army of killer robots, and then...

Oh, wait, a 200 year plan for your descendents??? No way. That's just crazy.

[Buggaboo]

If I ever had any doubt that the roots of patriarchy lie in ego and control.......I don't any more!

[fundiefan]

I'm trying to imagine what my ancestors in 1812 would have planned for me, but the entire concept is so ridiculous that my brain keeps trying to strangle itself out of desperation. Apart from all of the cultural changes that have occurred since then, the difference in technology is staggering, the countries we live in have changed, and the difference in quality of life has changed massively. I would say my ancestors 200 year plan would be "I hope some of our descendants don't starve to death or die of preventable illnesses." Not "I hope my great-however-many granddaughter sits on her ass all day talking about feminism on the Internet, in a country that is currently a colony." Even if you're just talking about breeding, there have been so many advancements in that field in the last century, and I'm certain there are more to come.

Having a 200 year plan presupposes that the world will be exactly the same in 200 years as it is now. Despite the fact that the world changes constantly, and isn't even the same as it was two decades ago. It's so ridiculously short-sighted it would be hilarious, if he wasn't making his immediate offspring live it out.

All that and more!

In 1812, my ancestors were scattered around Europe. None were in the US yet, so they never even imagined the existence of each other much, much less what my life would be. Germany, Norway, Hungary and England. I'm pretty sure they all had things like survival on their minds, not what some imaginary future generation would do in life. Even my grandparents couldn't have predicted my existence since only one of them was born here - the rest were all born in their respective countries and immigrated here as infants/children. How the hell could my Hungarian grandfather have predicted what my life would be when the woman he married, that led to their children and then to me, wasn't even born yet when he got to the US? And, she grew up in a very small, isolated Norwegian community while he and his parents settled in an even smaller, more isolated Hungarian community. Then the other grandparents - I don't know their story as well, but the one born in Germany didn't come to the US until the 1930's; they weren't Jewish but they were bailing on the nation Hitler was creating, and she married the grandfather from England who arrived about ten years prior with his 11 siblings and widowed mother. Did he know he was going to marry a German girl 'fresh off the boat'?

It really just boggles the mind to think anyone is arrogant enough to think they have any affect on the lives of any of their descendants.

[lizziesmom]

:doh: Wasn't there supposed to be a 200 year Reich under some guy named Hitler? Bad idea.

[eohiken]

In the 1700's one of my ancestors fought for the British. I suppose his 200 year plan would have had a statement about remaining loyal to the British crown. :lol:

Some of us Canadians have been doing quite well from this beginning!

[lilah]

200 years ago my ancestors will living in sheytls around eastern Europe. I am sure they would be excited that many of my family members have gotten advanced degrees, have all their original teeth and as a bonus, live in a nation where Jews can live peacefully without fear of discrimination.

I suspect they'd be disappointed that I married a non jew, don't keep kosher or cover my hair.

[thoughtful]

As for 200 year plans, I'm sure the 200 year plan for all of my ancestors was something like, "Please don't let my descendants be burned alive in their houses by the Cossacks."

Ditto.

[Witsec7]

Ditto.

Ditto, part of my family did get tired of it though and converted.

[Arete]

200 years ago some of my male ancestors would have sipping coffee and having this sort of conversation with the Missus-

Male Ancestor: Woman, I'm sick of being oppressed by the Ottoman Empire, let's rebel.

Female Ancestor: Shut up and go make some money to feed these children!

[darkplumaged]

200 years ago my ancestors will living in sheytls around eastern Europe. I am sure they would be excited that many of my family members have gotten advanced degrees, have all their original teeth and as a bonus, live in a nation where Jews can live peacefully without fear of discrimination.

Same here.

Mine would probably be dismayed that I'm childless at 34, but they'd be pleased that I live in a safe and decent home, that my parents are alive and well in their late 60s, and that I married a Jew.

I can't imagine what their lives must have looked like, so how could they possibly imagine mine?

[Jezebel]

My paternal grandfather would have been fascinated by the idea of a 200-year plan. But as controlling and heard-headed as he could be, he wasn't a narcissistic megalomaniac, and he had a pretty good grasp of human nature. So he would have laughed at Geoff Botkin's fantasy the way he laughed at shifty or poorly-conceived business schemes other people always tried to talk him into funding.

My grandfather never understood why I moved away from my hometown--he chose that city as the ideal place to be while still a farm kid in Iowa, and until the day he died he believed it to be the best possible place to live. And he was disappointed that neither me nor my siblings entered the business he and my grandmother built from the ground up (it all went to my Smuggaresque father, and I have no idea where the remnants are going in a couple of years, once he's gone). But he'd made his own break from the family farm, against his parents' wishes, and 200 years ago one of his paternal ancestors did the same thing--heading out west, rather than staying in New York State. He understood that young people are always going to want to break out and do something all their own, rather than living the life their elders might plan out for them.

My grandfather was a very prominent businessman in my hometown. I grew up seeing his name and picture in the paper all the time. If I had to give my last name to strangers, I was often asked, "Are you related to--?" He also became fairly well-known in certain circles nationally, and even internationally, when he turned a favorite pastime of his into a profitable business. When he died, it wasn't a front page story, but it was definitely news.

Ten years after his death, however, he's largely disappeared from public memory. The last name is no longer so recognizable--when I get asked about it, it's always by old folks who have lived in my hometown most or all of their lives. Nobody under 50 remembers him, unless they were employees, and the people who remember him best tend to be in their 70s and older. When they've all died off, so will his public memory. And he accomplished a hell of a lot more in any given year than Geoff Botkin could hope to do in his lifetime.

If my distant ancestors, living on a farm in the Mohawk Valley back in 1812, had any kind of "vision" for me--well, I'm sure they'd be dismayed. There's no way they could not be; they couldn't have dreamed of the world I live in, or how American culture has changed.

They might at least be relieved to note that I'm honest, hardworking, frugal, pay my debts, do not smoke or gamble, and rarely drink to excess. I'm sure they'd raise their eyebrows at my unmarried, childless state, my long history of sleeping around, and my lack of any formal religious belief or education. The sheer number of useless cats, doted on and allowed free roam of the house, would no doubt baffle them. But since I'm already starting to take on the traditional spinster role of caretaker for my aging mother in small ways, and fully expect to do it in all the big ways, they might not think too badly of me.