The Dark Ages

[FlorenceHamilton]

When I was still in public school, we learned about the dark Ages. I wondered how enlightened people could have lost all of the knowledge that they once had during the Roman empire. How could they knowingly give up the conveniences of running water and a sewage system? How could they deny the understanding of the universe that already existed? The ancient Egyptions undrstood how Earth fit into the Solar System and how the Solar system fit into the galaxy, The Greeks and Romans understood and carried out a Democracy of sorts. I would sit there and ponder what on earth can happen to make human beings shoose to be willfully ignorant.

The last decade has been and eye opener. Before my I eyes, I watch huge swaths of people (with power) insist that the our world was created in 6 earth days by an invisible, jealous, insecure, vindictive deity. They insist that the rest of us give up the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. They demand that we deny the events and the changes to the earth that are affecting our days and out lives more each minute. They are putting themselves in positions that allow them to make these silly, backward ideas into law. In a generation, the children will have been forbidden to ask about what today most common people know. It will take a new generation to learn these things anew.

I see now, how the dark ages came about. They are coming about again.

[Artemis]

Yes, I'm afraid Christianity has a lot to answer for. It suppressed scientific knowledge once, we struggled painfully into some sort of enlightnment, and now it is happening again. Don't forget that although the fall of the Roman empire was brought about by a concatenation of causes, Christianity with its concentration of knowlege among a lettered, powerful elite was instrumental in the denial, revision and removal of the knowledge base of the ancient pagan world.

In a generation, not only will children have been forbidden to think about what today most common people know, but they won't even have the words to think the ideas with. Read George Orwell's 1984 - it's on our doorstep, but this time it's Christian, and it knows it's in the right.

[debrand]

It amazes me how conservative crazy that America has become in less then a generation. Maybe 9-11 started this weird slide to the right, I don't know.

In tenth grade biology, we learned about evolution. The teacher stated that anyone who had a religious objection could leave the classroom without having anything taken off their grades. He then gave us a list of reasons that god couldn't be taught in a science class. One of the reasons was that religious people really don't want scientist testing the existence of god and if you can't determine if god exists scientifically, you can't teach him in a science class. No one, not even the most religious kids, left the room. I didn't know anyone who

We actually discussed sex! Dr. Ruth told everyone that sex was good. It was accepted that teens would have sex and needed protection. Taking precautions was considered a sign of maturity. Now taking the pill is a sign of a loose woman.

I'm not saying that there were't crazy people when I was young. We had pastors playing records backwards looking for Satan, for goodness sakes. But most reasonable people during that time period, even conservatives, would not be considered far enough to the right for modern Republicans.

Although we have a wider range of news online, many people get their news from tv. And let's face it, television news is often shallow and dumb downed. How many times have you watched HLN and wondered why some stupid prank or human interest story was news? I get the feeling that the corporations that run the media believe that all Americans are stupid.

Sometimes I wonder if there isn't an evil plot by corporations to make Americans stupid and dumb so they can charge us more, pay us less and have more control of our laws. However, that is too conspiratorial for me to take seriously

[Deleted07]

Its something I've been thinking myself, that there seems to be a strange conservative swing happening across the world, not just America. Not sure why either? If its fear, the way our society seems to be fractured and people so desperate and unhappy with no real community etc. (Making a sweeping generalization here, of course!)

But we must remember everything comes in cycles, seasons if you will. As long as we stand up for the rights we do have, and don't ever let them get taken away, and continue to keep fighting for equality etc and not allowing our nations to go backwards, I don't think we'll be heading quite for another Dark Age, especially with awesome peeps like the FJ-ers here, that give me hope for humanity! :-)

[Glass Cowcatcher]

This would be more in the context of the invasions and plagues going on during that time, but emember that it doesn't take much of a demographic reduction to severely damage the infrastructure.

Think about this: How many people know how to work in a powerplant, and generate the electricity that the rest of us use? Maybe 1 in 10,000? If those people all suddenly disappeared, there would be very few people able to fill in for them, and the rest of us would be up shit creek.

You don't always need to have a societal shift towards idiocy--just hit the infrastructure where it hurts.

Personally I think we are one good solar flare away from anarchy. Take away the Internet and people would loose it--not just because of the cultural shift, but because so many things, like medical records, map reading, ect. don't even have a paper backup any more.

[Deleted07]

/snipped/

Personally I think we are one good solar flare away from anarchy. Take away the Internet and people would loose it--not just because of the cultural shift, but because so many things, like medical records, map reading, ect. don't even have a paper backup any more.

I quite agree, even banking etc. My old Dad HATES technology and often rants on about how the computers will be the end of us all, and one-day its all going to blow up in our faces and society will be screwed etc!

I admit I roll my eyes and laugh, but really he has got a point! If tomorrow no satellites, electricity or phone-lines work, and there is no way to get them to work again, its a bit spooky to think of how much information we would loose and just how much stuff we would have to re-learn!

[Guest Anonymous]

I quite agree, even banking etc. My old Dad HATES technology and often rants on about how the computers will be the end of us all, and one-day its all going to blow up in our faces and society will be screwed etc!

I admit I roll my eyes and laugh, but really he has got a point! If tomorrow no satellites, electricity or phone-lines work, and there is no way to get them to work again, its a bit spooky to think of how much information we would loose and just how much stuff we would have to re-learn!

I remember having this conversation in 1999.

[Deleted07]

lol this is true, Y2K! The Millennium bug will get us all! :D

Hey don't forget we got 2012 doomsday prophecy to over-come yet! :P

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I quite agree, even banking etc. My old Dad HATES technology and often rants on about how the computers will be the end of us all, and one-day its all going to blow up in our faces and society will be screwed etc!

I admit I roll my eyes and laugh, but really he has got a point! If tomorrow no satellites, electricity or phone-lines work, and there is no way to get them to work again, its a bit spooky to think of how much information we would loose and just how much stuff we would have to re-learn!

Oh your dad and I would be good friends. ;)

I find it quite frightening, actually. To me it borders on criminally negligent that there is no physical backup for these things. Whether you're talking terrorism or natural events, loose the Internet and we're back to the dark ages.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I remember having this conversation in 1999.

Yeah but remember, y2k didn't happen because techy types worked damned hard to make sure that it didn't.

Back in 2000 the internet was really still in its infancy and most societal elements were not online. Today we're a lot more vulnerable. Just think about the little things--how many people even know how to read a paper map today?

[luckystone]

Back in 2000 the internet was really still in its infancy and most societal elements were not online. Today we're a lot more vulnerable. Just think about the little things--how many people even know how to read a paper map today?

Now that is challenging lol - I could do it easily as a kid but I must have let me brain go to mush. I was really confused last time I had a printed map and there wasn't a little dot showing me where I was and where I was moving! (But yes, I'm sure I could if I had to.)

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Now that is challenging lol - I could do it easily as a kid but I must have let me brain go to mush. I was really confused last time I had a printed map and there wasn't a little dot showing me where I was and where I was moving! (But yes, I'm sure I could if I had to.)

See? For all the tripe about it being an information superhighway, the internet is IMO a net loss of knowledge.

[Guest Anonymous]

Why can people not read maps now? I read maps all the time. Is it a GPS thing?

[singsingsing]

I don't think we're in any danger of going back to the 'dark ages'. At least not because of religious fundamentalism. I don't know any historian who still believes that the fall of Rome had much if anything to do with Christianity, and the 'dark ages' didn't happen because people just decided to stop believing in science and technology. The early medieval period also was not nearly as 'dark' as many believe (or are taught in grade school). :P

Fundamentalist Christians have FAR less power than they'd like to think. I know they are a loud vocal minority in the U.S., but they will never succeed in banning birth control or convincing the rest of the world that dinosaurs never existed. Trust me, it's just not going to happen.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Why can people not read maps now? I read maps all the time. Is it a GPS thing?

I am saying that in general, the skill of getting out a paper map, locating yourself and your destination on a grid, and then finding a route is getting lost, because it's so much easier to use GPS or Google maps.

If the internet would suddenly be turned off most people wouldn't know how to find their way.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I don't think we're in any danger of going back to the 'dark ages'. At least not because of religious fundamentalism. I don't know any historian who still believes that the fall of Rome had much if anything to do with Christianity, and the 'dark ages' didn't happen because people just decided to stop believing in science and technology. The early medieval period also was not nearly as 'dark' as many believe (or are taught in grade school). :P

Fundamentalist Christians have FAR less power than they'd like to think. I know they are a loud vocal minority in the U.S., but they will never succeed in banning birth control or convincing the rest of the world that dinosaurs never existed. Trust me, it's just not going to happen.

They are vocal enough that in my state, they decided it's OK to essentially rape women before certain medical procedures.

[Cherokee2000]

Yes, I'm afraid Christianity has a lot to answer for. It suppressed scientific knowledge once, we struggled painfully into some sort of enlightnment, and now it is happening again. Don't forget that although the fall of the Roman empire was brought about by a concatenation of causes, Christianity with its concentration of knowlege among a lettered, powerful elite was instrumental in the denial, revision and removal of the knowledge base of the ancient pagan world.

In a generation, not only will children have been forbidden to think about what today most common people know, but they won't even have the words to think the ideas with. Read George Orwell's 1984 - it's on our doorstep, but this time it's Christian, and it knows it's in the right.

Artemis, thank you for adding to my vocabulary today! I majored in English but it's amazing how much I still have to learn.

When I look at the rise of homeschooling and the fall of higher-order literacy (the first is not the sole cause of the second, but there is a connection), I just shudder. One more generation and half of the people who should be the leaders of tomorrow will not be capable of conceptualizing the ideas needed to lead. This is a worst-case scenario, but if something doesn't change, we are headed that way. :(

[Wolfie]

I am saying that in general, the skill of getting out a paper map, locating yourself and your destination on a grid, and then finding a route is getting lost, because it's so much easier to use GPS or Google maps.

If the internet would suddenly be turned off most people wouldn't know how to find their way.

I think that most people have enough intelligence to figure it out pretty quickly.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I think that most people have enough intelligence to figure it out pretty quickly.

If you could actually find a road map. I see them less and less in stores.

This is just one example, though. My real point is that so many things are being put online--and the knowledge and physical things needed to do them without the internet are disappearing. If the Internet ever goes down, we're screwed.

[linnea27]

This little blog entry was on my blogreader this a.m. and is very fitting for your post:

Things were so much simpler back in the days when everything was hard. You poured your sweat into the soil and fought for a crop that would see your family through until the next harvest. There was no struggle for excessive cash flow as needs were basic and lacked extravagance. The Industrial Age had not yet left its indelible mark and the frenzy of electronics hadn't swept in complicating everything with it's simplification.

But more specifically, birth control was not yet in vogue.

(growinghomeblog.com)

Yes, because it is BIRTH CONTROL that has made "easy" life difficult?

Fundies lately are scaring the crap out of me. Like you said- trying to bring back the dark ages with absolutely no understanding of what they were actually like. I wish we could create some sort of Bible camp for these people and introduce then to real biblical living.

[Coconut Flan]

They are vocal enough that in my state, they decided it's OK to essentially rape women before certain medical procedures.

What is this? What has Texas done now?

[Pudicitia]

This would be more in the context of the invasions and plagues going on during that time, but emember that it doesn't take much of a demographic reduction to severely damage the infrastructure.

Think about this: How many people know how to work in a powerplant, and generate the electricity that the rest of us use? Maybe 1 in 10,000? If those people all suddenly disappeared, there would be very few people able to fill in for them, and the rest of us would be up shit creek.

You don't always need to have a societal shift towards idiocy--just hit the infrastructure where it hurts.

Personally I think we are one good solar flare away from anarchy. Take away the Internet and people would loose it--not just because of the cultural shift, but because so many things, like medical records, map reading, ect. don't even have a paper backup any more.

Yes, this - Gibbons' whole 'Christianity caused everyone to forget the cool stuff' argument has a lot to answer for. Yes, Christianity did lead to some fundamental shifts in organizational power, but much of it went hand in hand with the fact that the structure of the Roman state had been falling apart for centuries - the empire was split between multiple co-emperors (Constantine, the first emperor to adopt Christianity was one of the 'tetrarchs' - four co-emperors who, quel suprise, fell out and went to war with each other. His conversion came in the middle of a civil war between them. And the tetrarchy had only come about in the first place as a way of dealing with the fact that the office of emperor had basically turned into a murder, coup, and chaos mechanism, particularly within the army. As the empire was being split between powerful men trying to maintain authority, 'barbarians' from the North began to migrate South, in part due to climate change affecting their agriculture. Falling apart at the centre and with pressure on the borders, it's no wonder the empire fell apart. With the empire went the trade connections and protections that had once linked huge areas. No one was refusing aqueducts or underfloor heating in the name of Christianity - but as areas became more isolated, shrunk and walled, and no longer had access to a vast network of educated engineers and trade networks for supplies, certain things couldn't be repaired, or had to be abandoned. Just surviving was a priority for many. Same can be said for education.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

What is this? What has Texas done now?

Transvaginal ultrasounds before abortions, it was all over the news a few months back.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Yes, this - Gibbons' whole 'Christianity caused everyone to forget the cool stuff' argument has a lot to answer for. Yes, Christianity did lead to some fundamental shifts in organizational power, but much of it went hand in hand with the fact that the structure of the Roman state had been falling apart for centuries - the empire was split between multiple co-emperors (Constantine, the first emperor to adopt Christianity was one of the 'tetrarchs' - four co-emperors who, quel suprise, fell out and went to war with each other. His conversion came in the middle of a civil war between them. And the tetrarchy had only come about in the first place as a way of dealing with the fact that the office of emperor had basically turned into a murder, coup, and chaos mechanism, particularly within the army. As the empire was being split between powerful men trying to maintain authority, 'barbarians' from the North began to migrate South, in part due to climate change affecting their agriculture. Falling apart at the centre and with pressure on the borders, it's no wonder the empire fell apart. With the empire went the trade connections and protections that had once linked huge areas. No one was refusing aqueducts or underfloor heating in the name of Christianity - but as areas became more isolated, shrunk and walled, and no longer had access to a vast network of educated engineers and trade networks for supplies, certain things couldn't be repaired, or had to be abandoned. Just surviving was a priority for many. Same can be said for education.

Not to mention, it's also bullshit because cultures in China, India, the Middle East and South America all managed to progress to rather "civilized," by Western standards, cultures.

[Coconut Flan]

Transvaginal ultrasounds before abortions, it was all over the news a few months back.

Thanks. Texas conservatives don't get a lot of news time where I live.