Personhood USA to assist in Europe

[dairyfreelife]

The crazy train of anti-choice nuts have decided to help the Vatican get the personhood movement going in Europe since it's appearing to major failure in the US and not doing so hot in Latin America.

http://www.personhoodusa.com/press-rele ... d-petition

(not breaking link since it's law related)

[OkToBeTakei]

Link did not work. My computer has an inbuilt bullshit programme.

[samurai_sarah]

The above link led me to an error page as well. I googled around a bit, and I think the article in question is this one: http://www.personhoodusa.com/press-rele ... ood-petiti

[mirele]

On behalf of the USA, I apologize to Europe for sending more of our stupid shit your way.

[OkToBeTakei]

On behalf of the USA, I apologize to Europe for sending more of our stupid shit your way.

That just made me really LOL

[galaxygirl]

The crazy train of anti-choice nuts have decided to help the Vatican get the personhood movement going in Europe since it's appearing to major failure in the US and not doing so hot in Latin America.

http://www.personhoodusa.com/press-rele ... d-petition

(not breaking link since it's law related)

Oh yeah, let's bring it to Europe. I'm sure it will go over really well there :roll:

[Cran]

If it happens, nobody will care.

I think many US-pro-choichers and the out-of-touch-Vatican-representatives do not realise that abortion and personhood of a fetus/abortion is not that hot topic in Europe it seems to be in the US. Nobody here would make abortion, or being anti-abortion, a leading part of their election campaign any more. Perhaps 30 years ago.... if you were pro choice.

[SpeshulTaterTot]

Like Cran said, nobody will care. They'll get looks like the Jehovah's Witnesses and a couple of people might talk to them out of pity or curiousity, but that's about it.

[Clementine]

It could work in the countries in Eastern Europe. Abortion is under attack in Hungary, the Baltic states and Poland. Ireland and Malta already have very strict abortion laws and the anti-abortion movement is growing in Spain and Italy.

I just don't see why an organization from the US should enage in the matter... don't interfere with the law making in other countries, thank you. We don't send missionaries or lobbyists to the US to try to make them ban spanking or open more abortion clinics. Maybe we should?

[Muriel]

Nobody would care either in France. Abortion is legal since 1974 up to 12 weeks of pregnancy, and free since 1981.

We have some anti abortion fundies catholics but they don't make much noise.

[Sola]

A few would care here, but I doubt they would have an impact. You get some people who would be, 'yeah, personhood!' but the moment they realise that means an end to abortion it would be, 'fuck that shit'.

[I live off the state]

The may find support in countries like Hungary but there would be no support in Germany, France and the UK and therefore it has pretty much no chance of getting anywhere within the EU. Noone really wants to be like Hungary at the moment (fucking Orban) so if the personhood movement does find support there it is almost guaranteed that it will fail every where else in Europe.

[latraviata]

The may find support in countries like Hungary but there would be no support in Germany, France and the UK and therefore it has pretty much no chance of getting anywhere within the EU. Noone really wants to be like Hungary at the moment (fucking Orban) so if the personhood movement does find support there it is almost guaranteed that it will fail every where else in Europe.

Absolutely, I'd like to add the Netherlands to the list.

[samurai_sarah]

I sincerely hope that no one will care. I can see some right-wingers picking up on the personhood idea and anti-abortion ideals, in conjunction with sinking birth-rates, but hopefully the vast majority won't give that the time of day.

[heinz57]

It could work in the countries in Eastern Europe. Abortion is under attack in Hungary, the Baltic states and Poland. Ireland and Malta already have very strict abortion laws and the anti-abortion movement is growing in Spain and Italy.

Actually, abortion has been forbidden in Poland since 1993 (it was legal before). And it IS quite a hot topic there.

There is a booming abortion underground though (run by qualified doctors, mind you). In any newspaper you get ads for "provoking the return of menses" or "gynecologist - full service" - and everybody knows what it's a code-name for.

[Peas n carrots]

It's still extremely restricted in Republic of Ireland...I believe only in the case if the mother's life is at risk. Even then women have to go to Britain for an abortion as there are no providers in the Republic.

I can see these folks going to counties where they are pretty much preaching to the choir. However I'd love to see them go to Romania...I want to see the public's response there lol.

[latraviata]

I sincerely hope that no one will care. I can see some right-wingers picking up on the personhood idea and anti-abortion ideals, in conjunction with sinking birth-rates, but hopefully the vast majority won't give that the time of day.

No chance, in the Netherlands most right wingers are not religious, with the exeption of a very insignificant very orthodox minority .

The believers tend to lean against socialism.

[Esther]

No chance, in the Netherlands most right wingers are not religious, with the exeption of a very insignificant very orthodox minority .

The believers tend to lean against socialism.

Same in Belgium - the right-wing is not at all religiously inspired. I don't like them anyway, but at least nobody is going to give a fuck about this.

[samurai_sarah]

Same in Belgium - the right-wing is not at all religiously inspired. I don't like them anyway, but at least nobody is going to give a fuck about this.

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean in a religiously-motivated way. I don't see religion taking off either, but right-wind ideas of personhood more in a pseudo-scientific way. Possibly, by way of the fetal pain argument that a recent, famous troll on FJ was so fond of using. My fears, and therefore hopes that this won't happen, mainly stem from the German laws on abortion. They make abortion illegal, but suspend punishment up until the 12th week. Abortion remains technically illegal, specifically "for the protection of the unborn life". The rethoric about "protecting the unborn life" has always rubbed me the wrong way. I can see how right-wingers might use that and the personhood-silliness, in a non-religious way, in conjunction with fears about dwindling birth-rates.

That's not to say that the people of Europe will actually buy into the personhood rubbish. I think that's unlikely, and hope that remains so.

[Esther]

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean in a religiously-motivated way. I don't see religion taking off either, but right-wind ideas of personhood more in a pseudo-scientific way. Possibly, by way of the fetal pain argument that a recent, famous troll on FJ was so fond of using. My fears, and therefore hopes that this won't happen, mainly stem from the German laws on abortion. They make abortion illegal, but suspend punishment up until the 12th week. Abortion remains technically illegal, specifically "for the protection of the unborn life". The rethoric about "protecting the unborn life" has always rubbed me the wrong way. I can see how right-wingers might use that and the personhood-silliness, in a non-religious way, in conjunction with fears about dwindling birth-rates.

That's not to say that the people of Europe will actually buy into the personhood rubbish. I think that's unlikely, and hope that remains so.

Hmmm. I see your point. In my country at least, though, I think the right wing is simply not interested in things like abortion, or homosexuality, or all those things the American right wing traditionally finds objectionable. They're more economically liberal (as in traditionally liberal - free market) and incredibly xenophobic. Which, disgusting, but I doubt they'll jump on the abortion train. They're more likely to go all: OMG, MUSLIMS OPPOSE ABORTION! KICK THEM OUT OF THE COUNTRY! and use that as a propaganda tactic than anything else.

However, I don't know about other European countries. Sadly there's nutjobs everywhere.

[Effie]

It could work in the countries in Eastern Europe. Abortion is under attack in Hungary, the Baltic states and Poland. Ireland and Malta already have very strict abortion laws and the anti-abortion movement is growing in Spain and Italy.

Poland a.k.a. Rome's most faithful daughter is the only country which would worry me. Poland is one of the most religious countries in the world, and the most catholic country in Europe. In the 70s my mum could easily have an abortion, since it was legal in Poland back then... The more recent politics over there have only headed downhill. (I'm so lucky I don't live there.)

[heinz57]

Poland a.k.a. Rome's most faithful daughter is the only country which would worry me. Poland is one of the most religious countries in the world, and the most catholic country in Europe. In the 70s my mum could easily have an abortion, since it was legal in Poland back then... The more recent politics over there have only headed downhill. (I'm so lucky I don't live there.)

As I said above, abortion has been illegal in Poland since 1993 (unless the mother's health/life are in danger, the fetus is seriously developmentally challenged, or the pregnancy results from rape). I agree things were going downhill, but the country has changed a great deal in the last few years, and for the better. There's even talk of putting down the abortion ban and even *gasp* of same-sex partnerships. It will be a slow process but I think the outlook isn't so grim. The ones that really worry me are Hungarians...

[samurai_sarah]

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean in a religiously-motivated way. I don't see religion taking off either, but right-wind ideas of personhood more in a pseudo-scientific way. Possibly, by way of the fetal pain argument that a recent, famous troll on FJ was so fond of using. My fears, and therefore hopes that this won't happen, mainly stem from the German laws on abortion. They make abortion illegal, but suspend punishment up until the 12th week. Abortion remains technically illegal, specifically "for the protection of the unborn life". The rethoric about "protecting the unborn life" has always rubbed me the wrong way. I can see how right-wingers might use that and the personhood-silliness, in a non-religious way, in conjunction with fears about dwindling birth-rates.

That's not to say that the people of Europe will actually buy into the personhood rubbish. I think that's unlikely, and hope that remains so.

Hmmm. I see your point. In my country at least, though, I think the right wing is simply not interested in things like abortion, or homosexuality, or all those things the American right wing traditionally finds objectionable. They're more economically liberal (as in traditionally liberal - free market) and incredibly xenophobic. Which, disgusting, but I doubt they'll jump on the abortion train. They're more likely to go all: OMG, MUSLIMS OPPOSE ABORTION! KICK THEM OUT OF THE COUNTRY! and use that as a propaganda tactic than anything else.

However, I don't know about other European countries. Sadly there's nutjobs everywhere.

That's pretty much how I see the right in most of Western Europe too. Except for the fact that in Germany, you sometimes do get a right-wing-led debates and fear-mongering about "Überfremdung". That term is difficult to translate, but it basically boils down to the fear that migrants will eventually "outbreed" ethnic Germans and take over; and therefore ethnic German women should have more babies. The trouble with that is that shadows of similar arguments have already made their way into the mainstream: a couple of years ago, there was a minor moral panic about 40% of German women in academia electing to remain childless. ZOMG, how dare they be so selfish to choose a career over family!!!!111! Thankfully, there was a backlash.

As I said, I really don't see it all happening from a religious point of view. And I don't know about Belgium, the Netherlands or other European countries, except for the UK, where I agree with Sola. (Northern Ireland and Ireland being a completely different story). I just hope that the nutters remain nutters, and that no one takes them seriously in Europe!

edited to fix quotes x 2

[Anxious Girl]

As I said above, abortion has been illegal in Poland since 1993 (unless the mother's health/life are in danger, the fetus is seriously developmentally challenged, or the pregnancy results from rape). I agree things were going downhill, but the country has changed a great deal in the last few years, and for the better. There's even talk of putting down the abortion ban and even *gasp* of same-sex partnerships. It will be a slow process but I think the outlook isn't so grim. The ones that really worry me are Hungarians...

I sincerely hope this happens. How many times does history need to repeat itself in order to show fundies that politics and religion does not mix?

[Peas n carrots]

Hmmm. I see your point. In my country at least, though, I think the right wing is simply not interested in things like abortion, or homosexuality, or all those things the American right wing traditionally finds objectionable. They're more economically liberal (as in traditionally liberal - free market) and incredibly xenophobic. Which, disgusting, but I doubt they'll jump on the abortion train. They're more likely to go all: OMG, MUSLIMS OPPOSE ABORTION! KICK THEM OUT OF THE COUNTRY! and use that as a propaganda tactic than anything else.

However, I don't know about other European countries. Sadly there's nutjobs everywhere.

That's pretty much how I see the right in most of Western Europe too. Except for the fact that in Germany, you sometimes do get a right-wing-led debates and fear-mongering about "Überfremdung". That term is difficult to translate, but it basically boils down to the fear that migrants will eventually "outbreed" ethnic Germans and take over; and therefore ethnic German women should have more babies. The trouble with that is that shadows of similar arguments have already made their way into the mainstream: a couple of years ago, there was a minor moral panic about 40% of German women in academia electing to remain childless. ZOMG, how dare they be so selfish to choose a career over family!!!!111! Thankfully, there was a backlash.

As I said, I really don't see it all happening from a religious point of view. And I don't know about Belgium, the Netherlands or other European countries, except for the UK, where I agree with Sola. (Northern Ireland and Ireland being a completely different story). I just hope that the nutters remain nutters, and that no one takes them seriously in Europe!

edited to fix quotes