Why Comparing Abortion to the Holocaust is Not Offensive

[GeoBQn]

Blogger Mommy Set Free, a Fake Jewish homesteader, posted the video of 180. I posted a rebuttal and this was the response that ensued.

homeshalom.blogspot.com/2012/06/holocaust-and-abortion.html

Anonymous said...

This link from the Anti-Defamation League explains why this video is horribly offensive to Jews and is "one of the most offensive and outrageous abuses of the memory of the Holocaust we have seen in years."

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/HolNa_52/6159_52.htm

From ADL National Director Abraham H. Foxman, a Holocaust survivor:

"The creators of the film clearly don't get it. No Christian who understands Jewish suffering should resort to inappropriate comparisons to the Holocaust to send a message that abortion is wrong. This was one of the most painful chapters in human history. Must the memory of the 6 million and millions of other victims be continually misused and abused by those with another agenda?"

June 29, 2012 9:26 AM

MommySetFree said...

My own winded comment requires more than one part because of the space limits in the program. :-)

First off, I want to say I mean to cause no one to be angry or resentful (offended) by my post. However, I suppose I have posted a very offensive topic - so this should not be a surprise that it might.

Here is the definition of offense as taken form Freedictionary.com

1.

a. The act of causing anger, resentment, displeasure, or affront.

b. The state of being offended.

2.

a. A violation or infraction of a moral or social code; a transgression or sin.

b. A transgression of law; a crime.

3. Something that outrages moral sensibilities: Genocide is an offense to all civilized humans.

4. (fns) The act of attacking or assaulting.

5. (fns) Sports

a. The means or tactics used in attempting to score.

b. A team in possession of the ball or puck, or those players whose primary duty is to attempt to score.

c. Scoring ability or potential.

Ray comfort offends a lot of people. He doesn't fit into the mainstream exceptable pattern of Christianity or Judaism. I understand what that is like. I do know the intricacies of His beliefs in full..I am sure we part ways in our understandings as well...so I need to make that clear. However, I thought this video was very interesting on many accounts.

1. It shows the clueless state of mainstream America. It is Self absorbed and morally confused!

2. He makes people think about the holocaust and abortion both. These are both VERY hard and offensive subjects.

3. He makes people think about the Law (the 10 commandments as a summery of Torah) and Yeshua ("jesus"). So there are 2 more very offensive things to most people.

4. He makes people THINK...and you know what...I am getting more convinced that THAT offends people. It seems that people have a really hard time thinking for themselves and taking full responsibly for their thoughts/choices and actions.

July 2, 2012 7:26 AM

MommySetFree said...

When I did a BRIEF search after receiving the comment above, on Ray confort's beliefs I quickly realized that He is He offends MOST people..because He challenges their pres-established ideals of "what is right". The ADL has an agenda - they go looking for people who go against their specific views of what is appropriate in regards to the Jewish people as a whole. They consider themselves defenders of the Jews. (Whom Ray Comfort is - but since He has excepted Messiah - this code of "What is a Jew" is automatically defiles - because in is taught and ingrained that "true jews" do not except Messiah.) I agree fully that antisemitism is wrong and is very prevalent - always has been - always will be unfortunately. Even though they (the majority of the Jewish Culture) will not have me - I identify with them through the Scriptures and have been grafted into YHVH's family through my faith in Him. I identify with the people of God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - but I not a welcome kinsman. You will not here me standing on a soap box insisting that they do. I just do not qualify in their eyes. But it is not their eyes that I am concerned about. It is what it is. I am what I am.

From the Christian point of view - Ray comfort is an offense because He teaches the value of the Law (10 commandments) and keeping it. Which includes the Sabbath and a moral lifestyle in addition to faith in Messiah. Well of course that offends so many branches of modern Christian doctrine. I have the have the Messiah in common with Christians, yet they reject me because I do not fit into into their "codes and standards". It is what it is and I am what I am. I am OK with that too.

I harbor no resentment for either "side", even though they both harbor it for me and those like me. I see both as my brothers..while at the same time disagreeing with MUCH on both sides. I love them both. What does this have to do with the topic of this video? Everything - because the two sides are always "offended" at the other because of their own man made codes and rules and ideals...it is quite sad...but Scripture promises to return and set it all straight. It is my job to weather the storm in the meantime and serve my king. It is a privilege and an honor and I am so grateful that YHVH holds me close through it all! It makes it all worth while!

It seems to me that people are so conditioned to be told what to think - that they feel they must subscribe to the "group" thought of their peers in their specific thought processes. Its just easier to do that!! To attach ones self to someone else's opinion rather to really develop and own one of our own based on due process and The Spirit working in us to show us His wisdom and lessons to be found by Filtering/discerning the "bad" and hanging onto the "good".

I also found it very interesting that the dictionary definition of "offense" contained this statement:

Genocide is an offense to all civilized humans.

Abortion and the Holocaust ARE two very strong examples of genocide. Both are VERY offensive and horrific example of the human's ability to destroy life for one's own ideals/advantage. Ray Comfort is causing the people who watch this video - to think about that.

July 2, 2012 7:26 AM

First of all, I was always taught that it's incredibly lazy to start an argument with "the dictionary defines [word] as . . ." Second of all, I think she would be much more welcome in Jewish cultural circles if she didn't keep loudly insisting that we are all doing it wrong. Third of all, I am not going along with the "group" (I assume she means actual Jews) when I pointed out that comparing the Holocaust to abortion is offensive to many. I have taken many classes on the Holocaust, done my own reading, spoken with survivors, and I have come to my own conclusion that there is absolutely no comparison, no moral equivalency between the two. Plenty of non-Jews come to the same conclusion. If she is saying that I didn't come up with my own opinion because I mainly quoted from a website, I did it because Foxman (again, a Holocaust survivor--if the people who went through the tragedy you are exploiting don't agree with your comparison, you should probably reconsider your position) described what is wrong with the video much more eloquently than I could. This is one of my berserk buttons, and if I had allowed myself to use my own words, it would have been a frothing-at-the-mouth, barely sensical rant. Also, the ADL defends religious freedom for people of all religions. It is only a sinister agenda to those who want to impose their belief system on everyone.

I knew I wouldn't change her mind, but I just had to say it. I at least made her see that not everyone will stand aside and blithely let statements like the ones made in 180 pass unchallenged.

[debrand]

For a portion of its development, a fetus does not have a functioning brain or nervous system so it can't feel pain or think. Comparing any human-even newborn babies-to a fetus is insulting. There is a big difference between aborting something that has no knowledge that it even exists and killing mothers, fathers and their children.

Ray Comfort is an idiot who wants to offend people.

He doesn't fit into the mainstream exceptable pattern of Christianity or Judaism

He does fit mainstream, conservative Christianity very well. However, he can't fit Judaism because he's a CHRISTIAN. He claims to ethically be Jewish and perhaps that is true but his religion is Christianity.

[slickcat79]

Abortion and the Holocaust ARE two very strong examples of genocide.

No.

Maybe you should respond with the dictionary definition of genocide :roll:

Also...ACCEPT. ACCEPT. ACCEPT. They teach you this shit in middle school.

[Guest Anonymous]

Are people coming up with articulate and intelligent responses to this? Honestly, all I have so far is 'Go fuck yourself'.

Also, are we glossing over the fact that abortion is acceptable under Jewish law?

[slickcat79]

From the Christian point of view - Ray comfort is an offense because He teaches the value of the Law (10 commandments) and keeping it. Which includes the Sabbath and a moral lifestyle in addition to faith in Messiah. Well of course that offends so many branches of modern Christian doctrine. I have the have the Messiah in common with Christians, yet they reject me because I do not fit into into their "codes and standards". It is what it is and I am what I am. I am OK with that too.

1. Why are you capitalizing "he" in reference to Comfort? Did he pick up some godly properties that I've somehow missed along the way?

2. Please point out a christian denomination that doesn't believe in keeping the 10 commandments. What branches of christianity would be offended by the idea of respecting the sabbath and a moral lifestyle?

3. Please prove that Ray Comfort observes the sabbath in a biblically ACCEPTable way. No working, no driving, no cooking, etc. There is no freaking way.

4. No one is impressed by your martyrdom to your made-up religion. If you (and Ray Comfort) manage to offend absolutely everyone within two established religions, you're probably doing it wrong.

[Mommy22alyns]

No.

Maybe you should respond with the dictionary definition of genocide :roll:

Also...ACCEPT. ACCEPT. ACCEPT. They teach you this shit in middle school.

Thank you!!! Damn, that's annoying.

[Olive Plant]

MommySetFree said...

4. He makes people THINK...and you know what...I am getting more convinced that THAT offends people. It seems that people have a really hard time thinking for themselves and taking full responsibly for their thoughts/choices and actions.

Bwahahaha! Ray Comfort makes people think? And you swallow his thought process hook, line and sinker because you're one of those gifted people who doesn't "have a really hard time thinking for" yourself?

I am getting more convinced that morons with no reasoning skillz like to pretend their fabulous intellectual acumen and/or moral superiority is the reason that others don't agree with them. Well, see here, if you were actually THINKING, like I've been trained to by watching Ray Comfort videos, then you'd REALIZE that I'm right and you're actually WRONG. But you don't want to ADMIT that, because then you'd have to be CONVICTED about your SIN against fetuses. The power of sin compels you!

There can't be any other explanation. Nope. None whatsoever.

[terranova]

I might be alone in this, but a woman choosing to abort her fetus doesn't offend me.

Mass slaughter of several million people really does.

[nomoxian]

I might be alone in this, but a woman choosing to abort her fetus doesn't offend me.

Mass slaughter of several million people really does.

THIS

In my mind I was all "fubtchtnuczzzz!" but you summed it up well.

[artschooldropout]

Are people coming up with articulate and intelligent responses to this? Honestly, all I have so far is 'Go fuck yourself'.

Also, are we glossing over the fact that abortion is acceptable under Jewish law?

Fakejews know nothing about actual Judaism. They think Judaism is just the Old Testament/Tanakh with a few tacked on rituals they learnt from watching Fiddler on the Roof. They expect actual Jews to just be fine with their plastering of Jesus on every custom they appropriate, because it's "quaint"/yah-some/ooh, wouldn't it be fun to pretend we live in biblical times? It's all fun and games to them, while my family experienced persecution for those very practices. Now they have the chutzpah to think they can speak on behalf of actual Jewish people on the Holocaust? :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

[thoughtful]

Thank you!!! Damn, that's annoying.

This is a mistake I rather like, since it makes the statement mean the opposite - "except" can be used as a verb, meaning to leave out (as in "present company excepted"). :lol:

Oh, and MommySetFree is phenomenally self-righteous and deluded. Which explains why she loves Ray "Bananaman" Discomfort.

[pomology]

What separates genocide from other types of mass killing is that it attempts to wipe out a culture, an ethnic group, a religion off the face of the earth.

People weren't just murdered, they weren't euthanized against their will, which would be a horrible thing in and of itself. But they were starved, tortured, worked, manipulated, forced to abet the Nazis in the mass murder of their own people in the vague hope that they would stay alive.

But whatever. I'm glad faux-Jews clearly understand what happened during the Holocaust better than survivors.

[GeoBQn]

She posted more responses. Among other things, people who use medical terms like "fetus" and "viability" are just distancing themselves from what abortion really is and pro-choice people are no different from Holocaust deniers. She also spells "heinous" as "ha-nous."

[Vex]

None of the things she mentioned offend me except for the comparison of abortion to the Holocaust.

And also her continued capitalisation of he/him when referring to Ray Douchenozzle.

Who the hell is offended by the 10 commandments?

[Anxious Girl]

What separates genocide from other types of mass killing is that it attempts to wipe out a culture, an ethnic group, a religion off the face of the earth.People weren't just murdered, they weren't euthanized against their will, which would be a horrible thing in and of itself. But they were starved, tortured, worked, manipulated, forced to abet the Nazis in the mass murder of their own people in the vague hope that they would stay alive.

But whatever. I'm glad faux-Jews clearly understand what happened during the Holocaust better than survivors.

Don't pro-lifers realize the shit their spewing? The point of Hitler's horrible sick planned genocide was to wipe out the Jewish people, the disabled, BGLT people, Roma, and people who didn't agree with his sick ideas. Basically, anybody who didn't fit into his Nazi stereotype of a perfect Aryan race. How does abortion compare with trying to destroy millions of people and their cultures? (If I'm incorrect on this 1, please tell me.) :x For that matter, what kinds of culture could "unborn babies" have? Don't fundies know the meaning of culture?

[latraviata]

What separates genocide from other types of mass killing is that it attempts to wipe out a culture, an ethnic group, a religion off the face of the earth.People weren't just murdered, they weren't euthanized against their will, which would be a horrible thing in and of itself. But they were starved, tortured, worked, manipulated, forced to abet the Nazis in the mass murder of their own people in the vague hope that they would stay alive.

But whatever. I'm glad faux-Jews clearly understand what happened during the Holocaust better than survivors.

Don't pro-lifers realize the shit their spewing? The point of Hitler's horrible sick planned genocide was to wipe out the Jewish people, the disabled, BGLT people, Roma, and people who didn't agree with his sick ideas. Basically, anybody who didn't fit into his Nazi stereotype of a perfect Aryan race. How does abortion compare with trying to destroy millions of people and their cultures? (If I'm incorrect on this 1, please tell me.) :x For that matter, what kinds of culture could "unborn babies" have? Don't fundies know the meaning of culture?

Don' forget the gays.

It is a disgrace to compare abortion with the Holocaust, an absolute disgrace!!!

[Buzzard]

Bwahahaha! Ray Comfort makes people think? And you swallow his thought process hook, line and sinker because you're one of those gifted people who doesn't "have a really hard time thinking for" yourself?

I am getting more convinced that morons with no reasoning skillz like to pretend their fabulous intellectual acumen and/or moral superiority is the reason that others don't agree with them. Well, see here, if you were actually THINKING, like I've been trained to by watching Ray Comfort videos, then you'd REALIZE that I'm right and you're actually WRONG. But you don't want to ADMIT that, because then you'd have to be CONVICTED about your SIN against fetuses. The power of sin compels you!

There can't be any other explanation. Nope. None whatsoever.

Ray Comfort... the man that taught us that God's plan can be seen in a genetically altered banana. Yes, he really does inspire deep thoughts...

[2xx1xy1JD]

All I could think while reading that response was WTF.

Lady, it's not all about you and your religious beliefs. The ADL isn't a religious organization - rather, it's an organization of Jews that deals with anti-semitism and racism. Nobody really cares about what you believe, or if you feel hurt that your particular fusion of beliefs hasn't been granted an official Jewish seal of approval. That's not what this is about.

Jews are offended by inappropriate Holocaust comparisons, period.

We are ok with truly legitimate comparisons - the Holocaust Museum in Washington stocks books on the Rwandan genocide, for example - but if you make the comparison to something other than an actual genocide, it distorts and trivializes what actually happened. For the same reason, we really didn't care for PETA's "Holocaust on Your Plate" campaign either.

[shesinsane]

Even though they (the majority of the Jewish Culture) will not have me - I identify with them through the Scriptures and have been grafted into YHVH's family through my faith in Him. I identify with the people of God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - but I not a welcome kinsman. You will not here me standing on a soap box insisting that they do. I just do not qualify in their eyes.

A vegetarian that eats steak once a day doesn't qualify as a vegetarian in the eyes of other non-meat eaters. No amount of preaching by the steak eater will convince those that by definition do not eat meat that you can eat beef every day and still be a non-meat eater. Get it?