Dougie on "Food Heresies"

[kb2]

I looked the guy up on Wiki. He doesn't seem entirely ignorant of the raising and eating of animals, but he's also very conservative and in favour of traditional gender roles. That doesn't necessarily mean he's bad at what he does, but I do suspect he was selected as much for his religious views as his farming experience. If they were really looking for an "expert" they'd go for a dietician, a doctor, or someone else with a high-level degree in an appropriate discipline and significant research background, regardless of religious or social opinions.

This is the Polyface Farm guy, right? In Michael Pollan's book, it is very briefly mentioned that he doesn't believe his children should go to college. (Because he can teach them everything they need to know about farming at home. Which I guess assumes that they're all going to farm?) Pollan mentions people being turned off by Salatin's religious beliefs, but paints those people as intolerant. (His example is of a woman complaining that he had a Jesus fish on one of his buildings.) The book's description of the farm made me really suspicious that Salatin was fundie. (The daughters are always cooking with the mother, it seems like, and Pollan doesn't describe any contact with them outside of dinner, which seemed very gender-segregated. It made me wonder if, while Pollan was shown the work the men do all day, if his female Jesus-fish-complaining colleague was only shown the kitchen. But that's pure speculation on my part.) The book doesn't pin down exactly what Salatin's beliefs are, but I can very much believe that he and a very conservative religious fringe would get along famously.

[holothuroidea]

This is the Polyface Farm guy, right? In Michael Pollan's book, it is very briefly mentioned that he doesn't believe his children should go to college. (Because he can teach them everything they need to know about farming at home. Which I guess assumes that they're all going to farm?) Pollan mentions people being turned off by Salatin's religious beliefs, but paints those people as intolerant. (His example is of a woman complaining that he had a Jesus fish on one of his buildings.) The book's description of the farm made me really suspicious that Salatin was fundie. (The daughters are always cooking with the mother, it seems like, and Pollan doesn't describe any contact with them outside of dinner, which seemed very gender-segregated. It made me wonder if, while Pollan was shown the work the men do all day, if his female Jesus-fish-complaining colleague was only shown the kitchen. But that's pure speculation on my part.) The book doesn't pin down exactly what Salatin's beliefs are, but I can very much believe that he and a very conservative religious fringe would get along famously.

I got the sense that Pollan was just trying to tell us that he's a nut but that doesn't stop him from ethically producing very high quality food. I tend to agree with that.

I get my milk from a Mennonite family. I don't agree with their religious beliefs or how they raise their kids, but it's a business transaction and I'm only interested in the how the cows and the land are treated and on that point we agree.

I think it would be rather intolerant of me to not engage with someone on any level because I disagree with their lifestyle.

[crawfishgirl]

I've stayed at that hotel before - I remember that it was historic, but I don't really remember it as being that nice, though it's been a few years since I was there. Also, there is a lot of drinking that occurs on the Riverwalk which is only about a block away, so the attendees may be exposed to the 'sin' (and lack of dominion nutrition) of the affects of liquor - the horrors!

I live a couple of hours away from San Antonio, and I might actually be there during the timeframe of this conference. But no way would I spend money to listen to Doug regurgitate his junk.

Also, the average high temp in San Antonio in July is in the mid-90's, and there is a lot of humidity to make it feel even warmer. That's hot even for people who are used to the weather. I would hate to attend if I was from a cooler part of the country.

[TXDuck]

I missed this, they're going to be in San Antonio? Hum, I may have to schedule a date night with the hubs for some time downtown.. Anyone willing to pay me to be a spy?

:twisted:

[kittypie]

Doug:

I've been doing it wrong. Pass the milk.

[pomology]

C'mon CanadianHippie, let's not insult wrenches. At least they are useful tools. :lol:

ETA: Oops, FunkyChicken got there first. That's what I get for not going through the whole thread before replying. Well, great minds and all that...

[Seven Severn]

This is the Polyface Farm guy, right? In Michael Pollan's book, it is very briefly mentioned that he doesn't believe his children should go to college. (Because he can teach them everything they need to know about farming at home. Which I guess assumes that they're all going to farm?) Pollan mentions people being turned off by Salatin's religious beliefs, but paints those people as intolerant. (His example is of a woman complaining that he had a Jesus fish on one of his buildings.) The book's description of the farm made me really suspicious that Salatin was fundie. (The daughters are always cooking with the mother, it seems like, and Pollan doesn't describe any contact with them outside of dinner, which seemed very gender-segregated. It made me wonder if, while Pollan was shown the work the men do all day, if his female Jesus-fish-complaining colleague was only shown the kitchen. But that's pure speculation on my part.) The book doesn't pin down exactly what Salatin's beliefs are, but I can very much believe that he and a very conservative religious fringe would get along famously.

If I lived near Polyface Farm I'd buy Joel's chickens, eggs, pork, and anything else he'd want to sell me. He respects the land and treats it and his animals well. That being said, when it was revealed here on FJ several months ago that he was aligned with VF, my respect for him did diminish. It's always hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that people can be so smart and forward thinking about some things, but so deliberately dumb about others. I realize that that's my own failing, but it's no less frustrating. I have no idea what point I'm trying make, but there you have it. :)

[ElphabaGalinda]

That's way too expensive for the bunch of bs he's spouting. I'm sure in Dougie's family they can afford burgers and movies everyday for the whole family. Also anyone Dougie claims is an expert in anything is suspect.

Even the crazy VF people recognize:

Doug Phillips is a tool.

[ImNoSupermom]

Joel Salatin is a pioneer and a genius. It is a real shame to see him involved with VFM in any way. If I lived near Polyface Farm, you wouldn't see animal products from anywhere else in my house.

And Doug *really* needs to brush up on the definition of "heresy". Its a serious word and a serious charge to make against any idea. Its just silly and just makes it more difficult for me to take the entire conference seriously... as if I would anyway.

[debrand]

This is the Polyface Farm guy, right? In Michael Pollan's book, it is very briefly mentioned that he doesn't believe his children should go to college. (Because he can teach them everything they need to know about farming at home. Which I guess assumes that they're all going to farm?) Pollan mentions people being turned off by Salatin's religious beliefs, but paints those people as intolerant. (His example is of a woman complaining that he had a Jesus fish on one of his buildings.) The book's description of the farm made me really suspicious that Salatin was fundie. (The daughters are always cooking with the mother, it seems like, and Pollan doesn't describe any contact with them outside of dinner, which seemed very gender-segregated. It made me wonder if, while Pollan was shown the work the men do all day, if his female Jesus-fish-complaining colleague was only shown the kitchen. But that's pure speculation on my part.) The book doesn't pin down exactly what Salatin's beliefs are, but I can very much believe that he and a very conservative religious fringe would get along famously.

I like some of Salatin's ideas. It upsets me that he is a fundamentalists. Pollan would probably not be as accepting if Salatin wanted to restrict African Americans in soem way. But he has probably never thought through why Salatin deserves tolerance for restricting women.

Salatin's ideas do not fit with the modern Republican party's goal of unregulated big business. Nor would his type of small farming work with an ever expanding populance. Logically, he should be for health education, protection for smaller businesses, free birth control and mandatory sex education etc. All of his farming ideas would be better protected by having liberals in office. Enviromentalists would be more friendly toward him then those who are pushing big business .

One more thing, it makes no sense for a small farmer to restrict the workforce on his farm. If Salatin was logical, keeping an able bodied woman away from the more physical demands of farm life would be unproductive. Daughters who work on the farm as children should be able to carry their own load as adults. Even if his daughter was physically less strong then his boys, she could still do a lot of physical work that would free the stronger people.

[ImNoSupermom]

I do know that Salatin has a kind of summer internship program on the farm where he employs both men and women who want to learn more about his farming model. And the women do the same work as the men... so I'm not sure how that jives with his "traditional roles" ideas...

[Talitha Cumi]

This is the Polyface Farm guy, right? In Michael Pollan's book, it is very briefly mentioned that he doesn't believe his children should go to college. (Because he can teach them everything they need to know about farming at home. Which I guess assumes that they're all going to farm?) Pollan mentions people being turned off by Salatin's religious beliefs, but paints those people as intolerant. (His example is of a woman complaining that he had a Jesus fish on one of his buildings.) The book's description of the farm made me really suspicious that Salatin was fundie. (The daughters are always cooking with the mother, it seems like, and Pollan doesn't describe any contact with them outside of dinner, which seemed very gender-segregated. It made me wonder if, while Pollan was shown the work the men do all day, if his female Jesus-fish-complaining colleague was only shown the kitchen. But that's pure speculation on my part.) The book doesn't pin down exactly what Salatin's beliefs are, but I can very much believe that he and a very conservative religious fringe would get along famously.

I have a couple of his books, because I'm interested in farming. He states several times that he will only accept apprentices who are clean-cut, all-American kids, because enough people are interested in apprenticing that he can do that. I also noticed that in the pictures of his family working on his farm, his daughters are wearing long skirts. Uh-huh...

[Sweetpea1]

Ok, just was reading the Wiki on Joel Salatin. He went to Bob Jones University... . Hmmmm.

[Witsec7]

Joel Salatin is a pioneer and a genius. It is a real shame to see him involved with VFM in any way. If I lived near Polyface Farm, you wouldn't see animal products from anywhere else in my house.

And Doug *really* needs to brush up on the definition of "heresy". Its a serious word and a serious charge to make against any idea. Its just silly and just makes it more difficult for me to take the entire conference seriously... as if I would anyway.

I respect what he's done for sustainable farming in his area and increasing a general knowledge base. But I would never spend money to support his fundy endeavors.

[Visionoyahweh]

Oh, I thought Doug would be railing about this:

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Hey, whattaya know -- not everyone is humping your leg, Dougie!

Doug prints comments? I need to go read over there...

New to this thread but I have to say I kinda sympathize with that comment you quoted, from another direction - it seems to me (as a secular person with no particular fondness for Christianity) that a lot of food obsessives DO make an idol out of their diets, to the point that it becomes a religion unto itself. This commenter no doubt finds that unfortunate because it competes with his "real" religion, but I just find it plain unfortunate. I know we mainly snark specifically religious fundies on this board (and Abrahamic ones, at that) but absolutely various kinds of unscientific snarkable woo are to be found out there in other pockets of the internet also, and diet obsessed websites are a prime stalking ground :)

Reading another thread here about dental care and Wife Swap the other day (specifically about a raw-food family on Wife Swap with horrendous teeth) led me to some boards about the wonders of eating only raw food, specifically raw meat, and specifically spoiled raw meat (if you're interested, just google around "high meat" and "raw paleo") and the amount of questionable (to put it mildly) science was just amazing. Lots of commonality with the crunchier fundies too.

Orthorexia.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I have often thought that Vision Forum is aiming for a more middle class crowd than ATI. There's crossover when ATI families like the Duggars haul themselves into the middle-class income bracket, but Dougie does seem to see himself as a bit of a dilettante, where ATI and Gothard seem to think that the Bible (as interpreted by Gothard) is all you need and be suspicious of any sort of higher education, even if that education is through a conservative Christian lense.

Oh HELL yeah. VF is aiming to be upper crust, "nice, classy." Even the fonts they use on the site, their catalogs, it's all hearkening back to some mythical genteel Founding Fathers patriotic gauzy image where the lifestyle is of the upper classes. It's about their own version of law school ("Witherspoon"). It's about living in big McMansions in the suburbs with fancy libraries to be passed down from father to son, because they are having a 200-year vision and starting their own dynasties completely with inherited family estates. They wanna be "Downtown Abbey" but with more Jeebus.

...which all makes reading "Life in a Shoe" pretty interesting, just for the contrast.

[CanadianHippie]

Just a minute, that tool is way too useful - you're insulting tools everywhere by comparing Dougie to them.

DOUG PHILLIPS IS A *USELESS* TOOL.

Have you ever tried to use a rusty old adjustable wrench? It's not useful at all! In fact, all you can really do is use it as a make shift hammer and it doesn't even do that very well.

[Sweetpea1]

So Dougie is a rusty wrench? :) :) :)

[CanadianHippie]

So Dougie is a rusty wrench? :) :) :)

He's a rusty tool that you still have because haven't gotten around to cleaning the garage yet.

[lilith]

Oh HELL yeah. VF is aiming to be upper crust, "nice, classy." Even the fonts they use on the site, their catalogs, it's all hearkening back to some mythical genteel Founding Fathers patriotic gauzy image where the lifestyle is of the upper classes. It's about their own version of law school ("Witherspoon"). It's about living in big McMansions in the suburbs with fancy libraries to be passed down from father to son, because they are having a 200-year vision and starting their own dynasties completely with inherited family estates. They wanna be "Downtown Abbey" but with more Jeebus.

...which all makes reading "Life in a Shoe" pretty interesting, just for the contrast.

Literally laughed out loud about LiaS.

But it must be very hard for a one income family with eleventy children and more coming to try to keep up with the "royal" families who are sustaining the lifestyle they are selling with the money spent by those same struggling aspiring families. And so the cycle continues.....

[thoughtful]

Oh, I thought Doug would be railing about this:

quote]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now, that's a food heresy!

[Guest Anonymous]

Just a minute, that tool is way too useful - you're insulting tools everywhere by comparing Dougie to them.

DOUG PHILLIPS IS A *USELESS* TOOL.

And rusted besides

[jesssnerch]

How I would describe Doug...

[attachment=0]bull-528-x-331.jpg[/attachment]

[Funky Chicken]

He's a rusty tool that you still have because haven't gotten around to cleaning the garage yet.

Good point... Which reminds me, I have to evict all the Dougies from my shed...