Lesbian Den Mother Ousted from Boy Scouts

[QAF_Rocks]

Ah, more intolerance from the BSA:

 

 

Quote

Lesbian Scout leader ousted in Ohio; parents upset

By JOHN SEEWER, Associated Press – Apr 26, 2012

 

The first-graders in Ohio Pack 109's Tiger Scouts didn't know or care their den mother was a lesbian — at least not until the Boy Scouts of America threw her out over the organization's ban on gays.

 

Now, parents who were aware of Jennifer Tyrrell's sexual orientation well before she took the boys on campouts and helped them carve race cars for the annual Pinewood Derby have rallied to her defense in a case that has re-ignited the debate over the Scouts' policy.

 

"I teach my children to judge people on their actions," said Rob Dunn, a father in Bridgeport, a village of about 2,000 across the Ohio River from Wheeling, W.Va. "Whether you agree with their lifestyle or not."

 

The Boy Scouts of America, whose oath calls for members to be "morally straight," maintains that as a private organization it has the right to exclude gays and atheists from its ranks.

 

That stance was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2000 but has led many state and local governments to deny support for the Scouts.

 

Male scout leaders who are gay have long been barred, but instances of women being excluded are not well-documented and probably rare. A lesbian couple in Vermont were told two years ago that they could no longer be involved with their son's Scout troop.

 

Because of the policy, Tyrrell said she only reluctantly allowed her 7-year-old son to join up in Bridgeport, where she lives with her partner and their four children. Told, she said, by the local cub master that it didn't matter that she is a lesbian, she was drafted to lead the pack in September.

 

Tyrrell told parents at their first meeting about her sexual orientation. Some already knew her because she had coached youth baseball and volunteered at school, organizing class parties and reading to children.

 

"She wasn't trying to hide anything," said Dunn, whose son is among the dozen or so members of the boys-only pack. "Nobody I know of has ever made a single complaint against her."

 

Tyrrell said she was removed in April, right after she was asked to take over as treasurer of the local Boy Scout troop — which oversees Tiger Scouts, Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts — and she raised questions about the finances.

 

She said the Boy Scout Council for the region told her she had to resign because she is gay.

 

"In this case, the policy was understood by her and her fellow volunteers but not followed," said Deron Smith, a spokesman for the Boy Scouts of America at its headquarters in Irving, Texas. "When a fellow pack leader made a complaint about it, to a local Scouting professional, they followed the policy."

 

The organization said it believes Scouting is not the right place for youngsters to be exposed to issues of sexual orientation.

 

Tyrrell said she is not certain who complained, but she felt betrayed.

 

So did parents, who organized a protest last week outside the church where the pack held its meetings. They demanded Tyrrell be reinstated.

 

Crystal Sabinsky said: "My son asked me last night, 'Why did Jen leave? Why is she in trouble?' He doesn't understand."

 

"The only people who were hurt were the kids," Dunn said "They're asking questions they shouldn't have to ask at this point."

 

Parents of the Tiger Scouts, a program for first-grade boys before they become Cub Scouts, said they never heard Tyrrell mention her sexuality to the children. Club rules require a parent or other adult to accompany each child to every meeting.

 

"I had no clue she was a lesbian. It doesn't really make a difference to me," said Don Thomas, whose grandson is in the pack. "She did a fantastic job, and the kids loved her. You couldn't ask for a better den leader."

 

Gay rights groups have taken up Tyrrell's cause, starting an online petition to get the Scouts to change their policy.

 

"The extent that people care is amazing," Tyrrell said. "We're a perfectly normal family. We're not dangerous. We're not predators. We're just normal, everyday people."

 

This isn't the first time this has happened. The BSA is really aggressive. If the national level finds out you're gay or an atheist, you're gone. It's sad because it's a great program, but they've been taken over by Mormons and fundamentalists, and despite the "don't ask, don't tell" stance of some local troops, anyone who doesn't meet the criteria is in danger of being ousted.

[Childless]

And this is the reason why I will not allow my son to be in the boy scouts.

[doggie]

ow is the sexual orientation going to be exposed to the kids? I mean was she planning on having a lesbian orgy in front of them? might as well ge those boys judging sexual orientation right off the bat I guess.

[QAF_Rocks]

And this is the reason why I will not allow my son to be in the boy scouts.

I wouldn't either, although since I'm an atheist, I don't really have a choice. To get little boys into the organization, parents must state that they agree with the Declaration of Religious Principle. Atheist parents have to lie, and they have to encourage their children to lie, and I'm not going to do that. Plus, even if it wasn't mandatory, I'm uncomfortable with any organization that makes six-year-olds promise to "love God."

[QAF_Rocks]

ow is the sexual orientation going to be exposed to the kids? I mean was she planning on having a lesbian orgy in front of them? might as well ge those boys judging sexual orientation right off the bat I guess.

Of course, they're only against children being "exposed to issues of sexual orientation" when it's a non-heterosexual orientation. They don't have a problem with all those married heterosexual moms being den mothers.

[tropaka]

So weird...according to whackjobs the Girls Scouts are a front for PP and yet the Boyscouts seem to be holding the old Christian homophobic line. I'm in Canada and I'm unaware if there are any issues with the Boy Scouts (no Girl Scouts here - they're called Girl Guides - but I don't think they have any homophobic stuff in their rules)....

[QAF_Rocks]

So weird...according to whackjobs the Girls Scouts are a front for PP and yet the Boyscouts seem to be holding the old Christian homophobic line. I'm in Canada and I'm unaware if there are any issues with the Boy Scouts (no Girl Scouts here - they're called Girl Guides - but I don't think they have any homophobic stuff in their rules)....

Nope, it's just the BSA that's holding out. The Girl Scouts of America has no problem with gays or atheists. And as far as I can tell, neither does Scouts Canada.

http://canadianatheist.com/2011/08/17/atheists-welcome-in-canadas-girl-guides-and-boy-scouts-2

[Sola]

They don't in the UK either. The Scouting association in the UK is inclusive, which is how it bloody well should be.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm so astounded. I just don't get it at all.... I can't think of a single instance in which it would be 'normal' for someone to have to declare their sexual orientation in public, or for other people to give a rat's ass about it.

I'd like to hope the 'questions they shouldn't have to ask at this point' are ones about hatred and bigotry.... :?

[Sola]

I'm so astounded. I just don't get it at all.... I can't think of a single instance in which it would be 'normal' for someone to have to declare their sexual orientation in public, or for other people to give a rat's ass about it.

I'll bet they wont be.

But even so how hard is it to simply explain to kids that some people are gay?

I'll give an example of a conversation I had with my daughter once;

Me: **** is coming over today

Girly: Oooh good, is she bringing %%% and &&&& (children of friend)

Me: Yes, you'll be able to play together. She's also bringing over $$$$ (same sex partner)

Girly: Why don't %%% and &&&& have a daddy?

Me: They do, but he doesn't live with them. **** lives with $$$$ (same sex partner)

Girly: OK. Why? $$$$ is a girl.

Me: **** and $$$$ love each other very much. Just like mummy and daddy do.

Girly: Can girls love girls? What about boys?

Me: Girls can love girls and boys can love boys. You don't choose who you fall in love with, it just happens.

Girly: Cool! Are they getting married?

Me: Sort of. They are having a civil partnership which is like a wedding but for girls who love girls and boys who love boys. That's why they are coming over, they want to know if I know of any little girls who would like to be a bridesmaid....

Girly: ME ME ME ME ME!!

(disclaimer: not an exact word for word reproduction, but you get the idea)

And with that the touchy subject of same sex relationships was discussed and laid to rest.

[lilwriter85]

I have a relative who worked for BSA in Colorado for several years. He liked the organization for several reasons, but there were things that he disliked quite a bit. There were incidents of people not being fired or ousted when they should have been. My relative lives in Colorado Springs, so he had to deal with fundies often. From his experiences, he said that LDS sponsored troops and leaders were the worst to deal with.

[FlorenceHamilton]

Ohio River Valley Council

Boy Scouts of America

Attn: Bob Drury

Dear Bob:

It is with great sadness and a heavy heart that I write to you today to inform you that I am resigning as a member of the Board of Directors of the Ohio River Valley Council of the Boy Scouts of America.

Yesterday, after receiving the email from Paul Tucker, I first learned the story of Jennifer Tyrrell, the den leader for Pack 109's Tiger Scouts in Bridgeport, Ohio, who was removed as leader solely due to her sexual orientation. I understand that this action was taken as a result of a standing policy of the Boy Scouts of America and that said action is legal. However, Ms. Tyrrell’s removal goes against my fundamental beliefs of how we should treat our fellow human beings and is, in my opinion, wholly discriminatory. I understand that the Boys Scouts of America is free to run its organization as it sees fit, however, I can not formally be a part of it based upon this policy.

My grandfather was an Eagle scout, my father was an Eagle scout and I am an Eagle Scout. Other than his family and his Christian faith, the most important thing in my father’s life was the Boy Scouts. The lived and breathed scouting. That is what makes this decision so exceedingly difficult and emotional. However, I know that my father would support my decision.

Best wishes to you, Ohio River Valley Council and the Boy Scouts of America in future endeavors. I hope that the powers that be will look into their hearts and find the wisdom and courage to re-examine the policies of the Boy Scouts of America.

Sincerely yours,

David J. Sims

[tankgirl]

Ohio River Valley Council

Boy Scouts of America

Attn: Bob Drury

Dear Bob:

It is with great sadness and a heavy heart that I write to you today to inform you that I am resigning as a member of the Board of Directors of the Ohio River Valley Council of the Boy Scouts of America.

Yesterday, after receiving the email from Paul Tucker, I first learned the story of Jennifer Tyrrell, the den leader for Pack 109's Tiger Scouts in Bridgeport, Ohio, who was removed as leader solely due to her sexual orientation. I understand that this action was taken as a result of a standing policy of the Boy Scouts of America and that said action is legal. However, Ms. Tyrrell’s removal goes against my fundamental beliefs of how we should treat our fellow human beings and is, in my opinion, wholly discriminatory. I understand that the Boys Scouts of America is free to run its organization as it sees fit, however, I can not formally be a part of it based upon this policy.

My grandfather was an Eagle scout, my father was an Eagle scout and I am an Eagle Scout. Other than his family and his Christian faith, the most important thing in my father’s life was the Boy Scouts. The lived and breathed scouting. That is what makes this decision so exceedingly difficult and emotional. However, I know that my father would support my decision.

Best wishes to you, Ohio River Valley Council and the Boy Scouts of America in future endeavors. I hope that the powers that be will look into their hearts and find the wisdom and courage to re-examine the policies of the Boy Scouts of America.

Sincerely yours,

David J. Sims

Where's the like button!! :clap:

I sincerally hope that this brings a new understanding to those kids and parents who got drug into this. They can know see just how truely unfair this type of discrimination really is. I hope it opens eyes, and changes hearts and helps the GBLT (and other) community get more support. BSA need to change or they will become obsolete!

[Kaylee]

So weird...according to whackjobs the Girls Scouts are a front for PP and yet the Boyscouts seem to be holding the old Christian homophobic line. I'm in Canada and I'm unaware if there are any issues with the Boy Scouts (no Girl Scouts here - they're called Girl Guides - but I don't think they have any homophobic stuff in their rules)....

The Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts are totally different organizations. It's sort of confusing, because most people assume they're just a boy's and girl's branch of the same organization. The thing that I find weird is they try so hard to root out gays and atheists, but I knew 2 different neo-nazis who were heavily involved in scouting - one whose wife was a den mother (who was eventually removed after her husband was in the news several times and people complained) and one who was an assistant scoutmaster. That bothers me a lot more than the idea of a gay person, because I know at least one of those two was trying to influence the kids' beliefs.

If anyone is looking for a more inclusive scouting group, Campfire USA is co-ed and accepting of all sexual orientations and religious beliefs. They are not as common as BSA, but there are some areas where they've been around for a long time. There is no group in my home state but a friend of mine has mentioned contacting them and trying to start one once our kids are older.

Also, most kids don't have all the baggage about gays and lesbians - it's the adults that do. When I was very young (about 4-8 or 9), my next door neighbor and best friend's mom was a lesbian. Once I got it that she lived with 2 moms and her dad lived somewhere else, that's all there was to it - not big trauma and no really awkward questions. I think the idea of divorce and her dad living far away made more of an impression on me than her mom being a lesbian did. It's weird looking back now, because my dad is very intolerant, but he never made a big deal about things or said anything was wrong with it, probably because he did not want me to say something to offend anybody.

[Third]

Why does who she has sex with matter to these children? I thought the whole backwards fear was that gay men were also into boys - being a lesbian shouldn't she be safer according to them?

[tropaka]

it is curious how her sexual orientation didn't matter until she had questions about the finances

[MrsYoungie]

Learn something new every day. I was a leader in Scouts Canada from 1992 to 2000 approx. while both my sons were in the movement. When I went for leader training you had to have a belief in some kind of god (deism was a-ok) and you could not be gay. I remember because I was astounded when this was announced at a training session and a few people cheered. I was a bit put off, but since our particular group did not seem to care about religious affiliation, I stayed in the organization.

I see now that Scouts Canada only requires some vague kind of "spirituality" and no longer discriminates based on sexual orientation.

Yay! Progress!!!

[QAF_Rocks]

I have a relative who worked for BSA in Colorado for several years. He liked the organization for several reasons, but there were things that he disliked quite a bit. There were incidents of people not being fired or ousted when they should have been. My relative lives in Colorado Springs, so he had to deal with fundies often. From his experiences, he said that LDS sponsored troops and leaders were the worst to deal with.

I know the LDS church has a tremendous amount of clout within the organization. Which makes sense because Mormons require their sons to join the Scouts, so naturally they provide a lot of the money and sponsor many of the troops. At this point, the hierarchy is so conservative, I don't think trying to change them is going to be any easier than trying to change the Vatican.

The BSA seems so contradictory when it comes to the religious issue. They're hardline about the gays, but if Scouting is all about recognizing a "duty to God," then why are they okay with religions that don't believe in the biblical god? Is it just PR? Is it because very few Buddhist or Hindu or Jain boys actually join? Maybe it's because they know they'll be crucified in the media if they don't pretend to accept "heathen" religions.

[QAF_Rocks]

Why does who she has sex with matter to these children? I thought the whole backwards fear was that gay men were also into boys - being a lesbian shouldn't she be safer according to them?

I think even the BSA realized that they couldn't accuse gay men of being child molesters and use that as a rationale for excluding them, so instead they made up some ridiculous reason that in the Scout Oath, the phrase "morally straight" requires that you be heterosexual.