Words banned on tests in NYC schools

[meda]

Welcome to sue happy America!

Again, context is your friend. Or not, if you just want to have the vapors over an incorrectly reported story.

[fluttershies]

Indeed.

Imagine a math test asking children to count objects, where the objects were really large realistic looking hairy spiders. With fangs.

Quite. I'm not familiar with the US education system, but I remember when I was at school and my teacher complained about the 'hard to pronounce' ethnic minority names used in maths problems in standardised tests. Because Sanjay (a common name for boys of Indian origin) is really hard to pronounce :roll:

[emmiedahl]

Quite. I'm not familiar with the US education system, but I remember when I was at school and my teacher complained about the 'hard to pronounce' ethnic minority names used in maths problems in standardised tests. Because Sanjay (a common name for boys of Indian origin) is really hard to pronounce :roll:

Another parent called to my attention that almost all of the names in our children's books are ethnic names. Like it is some evidence of discrimination against the Parkers and Chloes I guess? But it makes sense to me because there are more non-white than white children at our school. If a teacher could not pronounce 'Blanca' or 'Sanjay', they are going to have some big problems with the names like Xochimilco and Isai and Abrerfi--all children in my son's second grade class.

[clibbyjo]

Another parent called to my attention that almost all of the names in our children's books are ethnic names. Like it is some evidence of discrimination against the Parkers and Chloes I guess? But it makes sense to me because there are more non-white than white children at our school. If a teacher could not pronounce 'Blanca' or 'Sanjay', they are going to have some big problems with the names like Xochimilco and Isai and Abrerfi--all children in my son's second grade class.

Well, I have to know, how is Xochimilco pronounced? :dance:

[emmiedahl]

So-chee-meel-ko. She is called Xochi: So-chee.

Isai was the one that tripped me up--it's three syllables.

eta: the names that really interest me are the ones that are English names spelled phonetically the way a Spanish-speaker would say them. I know an Estephanie, Yessica, and Bibeka.

[fluttershies]

Another parent called to my attention that almost all of the names in our children's books are ethnic names. Like it is some evidence of discrimination against the Parkers and Chloes I guess? But it makes sense to me because there are more non-white than white children at our school. If a teacher could not pronounce 'Blanca' or 'Sanjay', they are going to have some big problems with the names like Xochimilco and Isai and Abrerfi--all children in my son's second grade class.

When I was in secondary school (which is ages 12-16) there was a Pakistani girl in my class called Saira (pronounced s-eye-rah). Because I went to an all-girls public school which is not a religious school, there were many Muslim girls there (I'm from a city with a high Muslim population and after puberty Muslim children generally do not mix with non-relatives of the opposite sex) with appropriately Pakistani/Bangladeshi etc names, so why Saira constantly got called Sarah I have no idea.

Having such a lot of Muslim girls at my school was awesome anyway - we had post-Ramadan feasts and because of most Muslim girls wearing shalwar kameez (tunic and loose trousers) trousers got incorporated into the school uniform :dance:

[Eclipse]

I honestly don't have a problem with removing cultural biases from standardized tests because they do effect the results. So halloween, birthday, etc. I'll let pass. Different cultures have different holidays and not everyone celebrates birthdays the same. A kid from another culture may be confused by a question that seems simple to us, like if Johnny is 8, how many birthday candles will be on his cake? or how many will birthday candles will Mary have if she also has a candle for good luck? Those questions presuppose western cultural knowledge. And trust me, not every kid who is born and raised in the US will know about 1 candle per year on birthday cakes, as I explained it to a Muslim friend in law school. Mentions of poverty, wealth, divorce, terrorism, etc. can negatively effect a kid on the test. If a child's parents are going through a divorce, the mere mention of it on the test can upset them and impact their results.

I however, have a problem with the word dinosaurs being banned. Dinosaurs existed, we have their fossils to prove it. Its not cultural knowledge, or emotional triggers. This, I feel is pandering to the creationists.

[fluttershies]

I honestly don't have a problem with removing cultural biases from standardized tests because they do effect the results. So halloween, birthday, etc. I'll let pass. Different cultures have different holidays and not everyone celebrates birthdays the same. A kid from another culture may be confused by a question that seems simple to us, like if Johnny is 8, how many birthday candles will be on his cake? or how many will birthday candles will Mary have if she also has a candle for good luck? Those questions presuppose western cultural knowledge. And trust me, not every kid who is born and raised in the US will know about 1 candle per year on birthday cakes, as I explained it to a Muslim friend in law school. Mentions of poverty, wealth, divorce, terrorism, etc. can negatively effect a kid on the test. If a child's parents are going through a divorce, the mere mention of it on the test can upset them and impact their results.

I however, have a problem with the word dinosaurs being banned. Dinosaurs existed, we have their fossils to prove it. Its not cultural knowledge, or emotional triggers. This, I feel is pandering to the creationists.

And even then, not all creationists debate the existence of dinosaurs even if they disagree with evolution. I don't have a problem with removing culturally biased and negative words from standardised testing but I do with dinosaur not being used.

[2xx1xy1JD]

So if we are going to have hysterics over the thought of word usage on exams leading to PC dystopia, let's at least get the story right. New York STATE has not put out this list, the New York CITY dept of Education has. Two very different entities. I realize that is probably not going to placate anyone who thinks that this is leading to Farenheit 451-eque reality, but it does place the list in a little more context. NYC is responsible for developing tests for an increadably diverse student population. NYC board of Ed meetings alone are translated into 18 different languages so that parents and community members can understand what is happening, so how do you think that translates into classroom tests?

NYC has long tried to develop tests that measure actual student progress rather than knowledge of cultural norms. Many of the words on the list, like Halloween, have to do with cutural knowledge rather than reading comprehension. Also, I would think it would be obvious why terrorist would be a good word to avoid on a NYC public school exam. The list is meant to be used in developing tests, not in grading tests and essays. If a student uses the word Halloween in an essay, there is no penalty for doing so. Where has that even been mentioned as a possibility?

Thank you. The people MAKING THE TEST will avoid the words. The KIDS can use those words all they want.

The words on the list aren't all necessarily "offensive". Many of them, however, won't be part of the vocabulary of children in some NYC communities. You may disagree with taboos in some of those communities, but that doesn't mean that the children should be labelled as being behind in language skills.

Here's a link to the New York City list of popular baby names for 2010. I can pretty much guarantee that all of the little Moshes (#6 on list of white boy names), Chanas (#9 on list of white girl names) or Chayas (#10 on list of white girl names) will not see any trick-or-treating, and won't be obsessed with dinosaurs either. If your intention is to test language skills, not science, then you will get distorted results by including "dinosaur". But hey, we can always test folks elsewhere on how to correctly pronounce Moshe, Chana or Chaya, right? :lol:

[emmiedahl]

I agree that "dinosaur" is probably not a very polarized word and maybe they are taking this a little far. But it's just a fucking test, and the kids will be just as happy counting butterflies as counting dinosaurs. Also, consider that in a reading comprehension test, children from families where dinosaur books are on the shelf will have a much easier time understanding the terms and concepts than a child who has only been told they never existed. Considering that the test is meant to measure whether the child was taught the curriculum in a satisfactory manner, excluding dinosaurs is just not a big deal (unless the state standards include paleontology, of course). Again, this is a measure of school performance and needs to be as impartial as possible.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

When I was in secondary school (which is ages 12-16) there was a Pakistani girl in my class called Saira (pronounced s-eye-rah). Because I went to an all-girls public school which is not a religious school, there were many Muslim girls there (I'm from a city with a high Muslim population and after puberty Muslim children generally do not mix with non-relatives of the opposite sex) with appropriately Pakistani/Bangladeshi etc names, so why Saira constantly got called Sarah I have no idea.

As someone with an "ai" in my name that's pronounced "eye" - I suspect it's because they see the "ai" and instantly think of rain, train, plain, Spain, and jump for the "aaaayyyyy" sound. People mispronounce my name on first reading ALL the time, and if I tell them my name they will always leave the "A" out of it because they hear the long "eye" sound and just write an "I" (and then read that back as "eeee" leading to more craziness).

Someone told me one way to impress upon people the right sound is to remind them: "It's ai like the ai in 'aisle'."

[sacrilicious]

Are they not teaching kids about dinosaurs in schools up there? My daughter's preschool (church based) had a week where they covered dinosaurs. Some of these things make sense to me, but not dinosaurs.

[Minerva]

I get why most of the words are on the list, but bodily functions? Don't kids love bodily functions?

[RR88]

Could someone explain to me, once and for all, why some people think it's heretical to think that dinosaurs once walked the earth? Sure, they're not mentioned in the Bible...but neither are turkeys, and no one thinks it's wrong to believe that turkeys exist.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Could someone explain to me, once and for all, why some people think it's heretical to think that dinosaurs once walked the earth? Sure, they're not mentioned in the Bible...but neither are turkeys, and no one thinks it's wrong to believe that turkeys exist.

I think it's the whole idea that fossils mess up the literal belief in creation occuring in 6 24-hour days. How to do mention dinosaurs living millions of years ago if you think that the earth is 5772 years old? Or the fact that they never co-existed with humans? [i don't agree, just giving their rationale. A friend of mine taught in a local Orthodox shul with decent general studies standards, and she was surprised when she was told that any reference to dinosaurs - even Barney - was strictly off-limits.]

[apple1]

Even Ken Ham (of Answers in Genesis and the Creation Museum) believes that dinosaurs existed.

[chiccy]

A spokeswoman for the NYC Department of Education recently revealed to the New York Post a list of 50 objectionable words and topics that are banned on tests in New York City public schools. They include "dinosaur," "birthday," "pepperoni," "dancing," "disease," and "home computers." Some reasons are given, such as:

Dinosaur--Not everyone accepts the theory of evolution.

Birthday--Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate them.

Pepperoni--Not everyone eats it.

Disease--May upset children whose relatives are affected by diseases.

Home computers--Offensive to kids who can't afford them.

The original article is here. What do we think--overreach of political correctness or legitimate measure?

Personally, I think it's legit, if only because it will probably save the Department lots of time and energy dealing with complaints from oversensitive students and parents...and because I think it's good idea to keep the tests as purely academic (i.e., not emotionally triggering) as possible.

[Guest Anonymous]

I think we've already discussed this... isn't this the one where the words were excluded from the test papers (though students were not themselves banned from using them) in order to reduce bias and improve accuracy in marking?

ETA link: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9030&hilit=dinosaur

[tabitha2]

You know some families can't afford:

Washer and dryer

car

pets

vacations

any and all brand names

cable TV.

I think those words are offensive and should banned to if they want to go that route ;)

[chiccy]

I think we've already discussed this... isn't this the one where the words were excluded from the test papers (though students were not themselves banned from using them) in order to reduce bias and improve accuracy in marking?

ETA link: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9030&hilit=dinosaur

Ahh thank you! I searched before posting, but I didn't find this. Sorry for the SSDD.

(anyone know if I can delete my thread? Mods??)

[Guest Anonymous]

You can hit the red exclamation mark in the right-hand corner and ask them to merge it with the other, but I don't think you can ask for a thread to be deleted once another member has replied.

[chiccy]

Is that what you meant?