Jesus is God OR God's Son?

[gustava]

I've always been puzzled about God and Jesus, about how Jesus can be both God and God's Son. I'm not trying to start an argument, just would like the input of my fellow FJ'ers.

From an article in Slate.com:

I don’t care what the liberals say, I don’t care what the naysayers say, this nation was founded as a Christian nation…There is only one God and his name is Jesus. I’m tired of people telling me that I can’t say those words.. Listen to me, If you don’t love America, If you don’t like the way we do things I have one thing to say – GET OUT. We don’t worship Buddha, we don’t worship Mohammad, we don’t worship Allah, we worship God, we worship God’s son Jesus Christ.

[Sola]

Never understood it myself either. Plus not all Christians agree with the trinity anyway.

As for the article from Slate; that person wants to learn a little of his own country's history. I know that isn't true and I live in the UK>

[contrary]

i think the general idea is that God was made human, in the person of Jesus. So basically God is Jesus, but Jesus is not god. God is also the Holy Spirit.

But still...that bolded part of the article does sound kinda dumb.

[formergothardite]

Does anyone understand the trinity? I never did.

[alaeangelorum]

i think the general idea is that God was made human, in the person of Jesus. So basically God is Jesus, but Jesus is not god. God is also the Holy Spirit.

But still...that bolded part of the article does sound kinda dumb.

In some ways it depends on who you ask. I was taught that Jesus was both fully human and fully divine, so both God and man in one person. Jesus continues to exist after his resurrection (and existed before his incarnation depending on who you ask).

Anyway, it is not something which is meant to be understood fully... I appreciate that is a thoroughly unsatisfactory explanation but most Christians won't profess to be able to explain it properly. I have heard various analogies, eg thinking about God like water - can be ice, liquid, vapour but all are water.

As for the article - he can say that all he wants but that doesn't mean people have to agree with him. I get really frustrated with religious people who believe very fervently that they have it right and everyone else has it wrong - despite the fact that in the majority of cases you follow the religion of your parents, and thus it is all an accident of birth.

[debrand]

Water can be a liquid, solid or gas but it is still water. God has three forms, The Father, Son and Holy Ghost. They are all the same being but three seperate beings. It doesn't make sense but Christians are supposed to view it as a mystery that is impossible for human minds to understand.

Jesus is supposed to be fully god and fuly human at the same time. Another mystery that is supposed to be too difficult for humans to understand

[Kitty]

I heard both growing up Southern Baptist. The first time they tried to teach us about the Trinity in AWANA I was so confused that I rejected it. Of course, I was still good at math then, and three wholes cannot be one whole. They can be three parts of one whole. Or something.

This is why I'm an atheist- gods are so confusing and difficult to keep track of.

[debrand]

I've always been puzzled about God and Jesus, about how Jesus can be both God and God's Son. I'm not trying to start an argument, just would like the input of my fellow FJ'ers.

From an article in Slate.com:

He is not being prevented from speaking out. The problem is that he doesn't want others to exercise their freedom of speech. He can say what he wants and others have the right to respond.

Yes, some Americans do worship Allah and are Buddhist. Some of those Muslims and Buddhist have died to perserve his right to speak his mind. They are no less American than he is.

[doggie]

the idea of god coming down and raping a teen girl then arranging his own Crucifixion so people will believe in him is hard to really comprehend.

[ilovetchotchkes]

Does anyone understand the trinity? I never did.

Hence why I am now a Jew...

Seriously, I. just. don't. get. it.

[Minerva]

I've always seen it like this: Jesus became God's son by being born on earth. Before that, it was just God. They basically sent a part of Themselves to earth, and that part went into a body and was named Jesus. When Jesus' soul went back up to Heaven, He just became part of God again. It makes sense that Jesus was an autonomous being whilst on earth, because that part of God was in a human body. That's why you see Jesus pray at certain points in the Bible. He wasn't praying to Himself, but to the rest of God that wasn't in the body. It makes sense to me....

[holierthanyou]

I think there is a broad spectrum of belief on what the trinity is and isn't. United Pentecostals (different from regular Pentecostals, and nothing to do with the united church) would say they reject the trinity, because they believe there is only one God; Jesus. But I have also heard their pastors describe Jesus as having three distinct roles: the role of creator God, the role of Jesus on earth, and the role of Jesus in the holy spirit. So, to me, I would say they are still Trinitarian, but just quite far on one end of the spectrum. Of course, they would disagree with me adamantly and be rabid about not being Trinitarian.

Edited because auto correct had me labeling the united Pentecostal church as Trinidadian versus Trinitarian.

[haveapicniclife]

I never quite understood it, either. Yes, I get the trinity (well I don't believe it, but I get what they are trying to say). But then I hear "God sacrificed his son for our sins" and then I'm confused again. That indicates to me that Jesus was his "son" on earth and God was supposed to be in heaven directing things(?). It's so odd to me.

[Swamptribe]

The idea is that there is one god, who has multiple aspects, or parts. Kind of like god is a pie, divided into two pieces. The whole pie is god, the two pieces of the pie are Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Figure that's a simple analogy, fundies seem to like those.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

I grew up Christian but am not now. This is a really interesting explanation that almost makes sense... in Bill Maher's Religilous movie, he went to one of the Jesus theme parks down south and talked to the guy playing Jesus. The guy playing Jesus said it's like water, it can be found in 3 forms - water, steam/vapor, ice. That is how the trinity is supposed to work. That really made sense to me in their explanation of their beliefs (still not a christian though).

[Esther]

I went to a Catholic school in Belgium for twelve years. We always learned that Jesus was divinely inspired and therefore the son of God. At no point did anyone tell me Jesus was actually God. Admittedly, Catholicism in Belgium - as in much of Western Europe - is pretty liberal, and nobody ever tried to tell me virgin birth actually really, non-metaphorically, happened, either.

[Constance Vigilance]

Lots of pagan religions have triune gods (the Celts were all over that shit) so at the meeting when it was decided Jesus was divine -- 300AD? Something like that? I believe that the early Christians didn't view him as such -- they decided their god was triune too. Just moar co-optin' from the Pagans. See also: Christmas, Easter, etc.

(I went to Catholic school: they were very clear that Jesus was fully human and fully divine. Whatever that means. ETA: And the Virgin Birth happened for reals.)

[tankgirl]

I have often found some Christians talk about Jesus & God and the Holy Trinity almost in a polythestic fashion, which confused the heeck out of me.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Does anyone understand the trinity? I never did.

It's bacon, mayo and cheese, if you ask me.

[LilMissMetaphor]

the idea of god coming down and raping a teen girl then arranging his own Crucifixion so people will believe in him is hard to really comprehend.

Shut up, doggie, you're being an ass.

[Boogalou]

I grew up Christian but am not now. This is a really interesting explanation that almost makes sense... in Bill Maher's Religilous movie, he went to one of the Jesus theme parks down south and talked to the guy playing Jesus. The guy playing Jesus said it's like water, it can be found in 3 forms - water, steam/vapor, ice. That is how the trinity is supposed to work. That really made sense to me in their explanation of their beliefs (still not a christian though).

Even that explanation doesn't really make sense to me. H2O can be ice, water, and vapour, but it can't be all three at once. I think it would make a lot more sense if Christians who believed in the Trinity just said they were polytheistic.

[kunoichi66]

I heard from the Catholic side of my family that the trinity exists so that, if you are praying for something on Earth, you pray to Jesus, the human manifestation of God. If you are praying for someone who is dead, you pray to the Holy Spirit. If you are praying for something to do with Heaven, then you Pray to God himself.

[tankgirl]

I heard from the Catholic side of my family that the trinity exists so that, if you are praying for something on Earth, you pray to Jesus, the human manifestation of God. If you are praying for someone who is dead, you pray to the Holy Spirit. If you are praying for something to do with Heaven, then you Pray to God himself.

Who knew God needed so many middle men.

[Fluffy-Boo]

It doesn't make sense because it is a philosophical interpretation of scripture, not a scientific one. There's a book called "When Jesus Became God" and it goes into the history of the Trinity, how at the very beginning Christianity was nearly evenly divided between those who believed Jesus was God and those who believed he was the created son of God, and how the Holy Spirit made it in the mix is a bit of an interesting tale...

Anyway, staunch Trinitarians claim that Jesus was both 100% God and 100% man. When you argue that one cannot be 100% two different species such as 100% cat and 100% dog they say "God can do anything".

But these are just WORDS. They are arguing semantics and this is because it is a religion, not a science. You can claim anything in a religion.

No one can explain the Trinity because it is the fruit of philosophers/theologians, and centuries of church fathers trying to harmonize a horde of seemingly contradictory scripture. I am appalled to see translators claiming that Jesus claimed to be the great "I AM" of the old testament when the NT words don't even match up with those of the Septuagint.

The lengths that some Christians have gone to in order to make this doctrine "apparent" in scripture are very sad and interesting at the same time.

[kunoichi66]

Who knew God needed so many middle men.

*snerk*

Having said that, the article quoted in this thread is just sloppy.