Joy Anna

[Lady]

I think it makes more sense for Johannah to be like Jessa, not Jana.

[Kitty]

I rarely watch the show anymore, except maybe 3-minute blocks here and there. But from the pictures I've seen and the little snippets I get, it seems like Joy is often dressed in the girliest clothes, which just don't look right on her. Most of the girls wear jean skirts or khaki skirts, but I remember seeing her in a pink floral skirt (with a white polo). In a recent picture she was wearing a peach or coral flowy dress with an animal print shirt over it that just didn't match. I have often wondered if the parents are forcing her into these extra-girly clothes to try to make her fit better into the role they want for her. Since she's in between a bunch of boys, she can't really borrow clothes from her sisters so whatever her parents buy in her size is what she's stuck wearing. Some of the pieces I've seen her in seem too girly even for the princess Jessa, so they just look totally weird on Joy Anna, especially when she seems to try to town things down with other pieces that don't really match the style.

I was thinking that overcompensation is a pretty big thing among fundies. Think you're gay? Obsess about gay people and bash them. Hate being a homemaker? Show off all the shit you do around the house, even if it's very little because you make your kids do it all, and bash working mothers. Joy is a tomboy? She'll pick out the girliest clothes she can find to get Michelle and Jim Bob off her back, and to convince herself she's not really a tomboy.

I've gotten the "compensating for something" vibe off the older girls at times, particularly Jessa.

[Athena]

Jessa has always seemed like an angry person to me. She doesn't seem like the 'keep sweet' type.

[Lady]

I've gotten the "compensating for something" vibe off the older girls at times, particularly Jessa.

What do you think she is compensating for?

Jessa has always seemed like an angry person to me. She doesn't seem like the 'keep sweet' type.

No, she doesn't. But I wouldn't say angry, maybe lots of attitude.

[bananacat]

I think Jessa has the same amount of attitude that most teens have. The reason it's surprising is that fundies try very hard to stifle that attitude that most people consider a normal and even healthy part of transitioning to adulthood. If she were a mainstream teen, nobody would even notice, but it stands out because of the cult she is part of.

[FloraDoraDolly]

There I go, getting my J's confused!

Yes, it was Johanna and Jana. SHe seems so lifeless, didn't she attend an ATI girls camp last year quite suddenly? I remember a recording that got out of a group of girls (including a few Duggars) just goofing around doing teen girl stuff.

Jana has been a quiet, obedient young lady since the first Duggar special. This was way before ATI camp. I suspect all the housework and childcare wore her down long before she ever appeared on TV. (Now that I think of it, she was fourteen then, the same age Joy is now.) I can't imagine Jana as a little howler monkey like Hannie.

[Athena]

I think Jessa has the same amount of attitude that most teens have. The reason it's surprising is that fundies try very hard to stifle that attitude that most people consider a normal and even healthy part of transitioning to adulthood. If she were a mainstream teen, nobody would even notice, but it stands out because of the cult she is part of.

Good point...and considering that, I'm glad she's kinda bitchy. It's nice to see some real humanity from these girls sometimes.

[nomi]

Wasn't Jana the girl in the first Duggar shows who wore bloomers and didn't even talk to the camera? She seemed SO indoctrinated even then.

[JenniferJuniper]

I think it makes more sense for Johannah to be like Jessa, not Jana.

It may make more sense to you, but we viewers didn't know Jana as a 6 year old. The Duggars of course did, and clearly did a good job in removing any Little Rascal qualities she may have shared with the future Hannie.

Sadly, Johannah will no doubt receive the same sort of "counseling" as Jana.

[Feberin]

But Hannie won't have the amount of work that Jana had to shoulder. I think Michelle has said she had seven children when she implemented the buddy system that means Jana got a buddy at seven years old. And it's not the buddy relationship that the younger ones have now where there is an older supervising sister but just her and one of the little ones. Plus she was making dinner for the entire family by fourteen probably younger.

[Coconut Flan]

Watching the older girls/young women, I find myself wondering and hoping if for at least some of them the quiet acquiescent behavior is just a cover. I keep hoping that they've learned that for self-preservation and really underneath recognize Jim Bob, Michelle, and Gothard for what they are.

[weirdghostboo]

Watching the older girls/young women, I find myself wondering and hoping if for at least some of them the quiet acquiescent behavior is just a cover. I keep hoping that they've learned that for self-preservation and really underneath recognize Jim Bob, Michelle, and Gothard for what they are.

Probably not. They seem like they've drunken the Kool-Aid too much. I think it's probably the slightly glazed look that gives it away.

[JenniferJuniper]

But Hannie won't have the amount of work that Jana had to shoulder. I think Michelle has said she had seven children when she implemented the buddy system that means Jana got a buddy at seven years old. And it's not the buddy relationship that the younger ones have now where there is an older supervising sister but just her and one of the little ones. Plus she was making dinner for the entire family by fourteen probably younger.

As far as the immediate family goes, it's true that Hannie is fortunate to only be stuck with being the head of the youngest group of girls. However, I think her parents will force her to tow the same line they forced upon young Jana, and seem to be pushing upon Joy.

Duggars The Next Generation will need compliant young ladies around to assist with the raising of the Grand Duggars. Hannie has only about 5 or 6 years before that becomes her reality.

[bananacat]

As far as the immediate family goes, it's true that Hannie is fortunate to only be stuck with being the head of the youngest group of girls. However, I think her parents will force her to tow the same line they forced upon young Jana, and seem to be pushing upon Joy.

Duggars The Next Generation will need compliant young ladies around to assist with the raising of the Grand Duggars. Hannie has only about 5 or 6 years before that becomes her reality.

I can definitely see Smuggar moving onto the compound, or maybe even into the big house itself as more of the boys get married and move out (the daughters will be there forever). And if Anna keeps going at this rate, I can definitely see a bunch of the Duggar daughters raising those kids. The first time Anna is pregnant without any cameras around, Hannie will be changing diapers for her nieces and nephews. Anna gets bad morning sickness, and Josh is just too lazy to do it any longer than he absolutely has to. Jim Bob and Michelle might even start pushing marriage on the boys just to get more babies to occupy the youngest daughters.

[bubbabearzle]

I'd like to liberate Jana, rescue John-David, emancipate Jill, save Jessa, free Jinger, extricate Joesph, break out Josiah, spring Joy-Anna, unshackle Jedidiah, salvage Jeremiah, deliver Jason, recover James, reclaim Justin, release Jackson, bail out Johanna, unshackle Jennifer, discharge Jordyn, and unchain Josie.

And the Bates too, but that's another day.

Where's the damn "like" button when I need it?!

[Third]

Sometimes it can feel impossible for people in abusive situations to leave. I wonder if the adult children feel they are capable of leaving.

It's probably been drilled in them since they were tiny all the horrible things that will happen to them if they do. I bet they have their kids believing this is the way to salvation so not only do you loose contact with your siblings you may go to hell.

[gilora]

When the Duggars were first on television, Jinger was the spirited one who seemed most likely to rebel. If I recall correctly, she was about Joy's age at the time. Now she's a Stepford Wife. I see the same fate for Joy. Jim Bob won't need to marry her off at 17 because by then she will be in line. Whatever Jim Bob and Michelle are doing, it sure as hell works.

[FJismyheadship]

I see Jinger keeping sweet because she has to... But then i also see moments where she looks pissed off. Baby twenty was around the time when we all started speculating Jinger had been brainwashed but on the ask the duggars episode she was not allowed to talk much and after GMA or whatever show they are always on they had a Jessa/Jinger interview and jinger again did not speak but glared at Jessa as she prattled on about how babies were like live dolls

[Lady]

Watching the older girls/young women, I find myself wondering and hoping if for at least some of them the quiet acquiescent behavior is just a cover. I keep hoping that they've learned that for self-preservation and really underneath recognize Jim Bob, Michelle, and Gothard for what they are.

Some of them. Sometimes I think Jana still has a little spark in her, she just needs to ignite it.

[marmalade]

Jana has been a quiet, obedient young lady since the first Duggar special. This was way before ATI camp. I suspect all the housework and childcare wore her down long before she ever appeared on TV. (Now that I think of it, she was fourteen then, the same age Joy is now.) I can't imagine Jana as a little howler monkey like Hannie.

Of course not. They were actively blanket training those early kids. There's a huge difference between the kids from about the twins on down (hence their title of the Howlers). Once they got those specials, those were the kids still young enough to have some form of correction training, be it the blanket or the chair that Mullet once tried on an episode with Jackson. Didn't work: he turned her back and he wiggled through the arm rest on the other side. Since she had a camera in her face, she couldn't "correct" him further.

[Aerial312]

Of course not. They were actively blanket training those early kids. There's a huge difference between the kids from about the twins on down (hence their title of the Howlers). Once they got those specials, those were the kids still young enough to have some form of correction training, be it the blanket or the chair that Mullet once tried on an episode with Jackson. Didn't work: he turned her back and he wiggled through the arm rest on the other side. Since she had a camera in her face, she couldn't "correct" him further.

I thought I read they didn't "discover" blanket training until Jedidiah/Jeremiah.

[Guest Anonymous]

Kind of sort of off topic, but....why isn't Joseph interviewed during the show like the little ones. And why does John David only get occasional interviews?

[spragger]

I used to think that Johanna was going to be the one to break free eventually, but after reading this thread I realize it's just because they haven't broken her yet! So depressing.

[Guest Anonymous]

You know...I could see Joy being a cheerleader just like her mother.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I thought I read they didn't "discover" blanket training until Jedidiah/Jeremiah.

That's right; it started with the boy twins. I believe Michelle said she then used it with Joy.