Fundies can read/watch les mis?

[Buzzard]

This thread hasnt yet been raptured so I'm posting it here so I can add to it. New post will be below the previous discussion. Sorry I cant figure out how to make the boxes like the previously raptured threads.

Original thread here in case my pasting is annoying:

http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/6832/F ... mis?page=1

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buzzard Fundies can watch/read les mis? Lead [-]

Robobotkin

Posts: 648

(04/22/11 18:34:33)

Reply Quote Edit MoreMy Recent Posts Tags [Edit]: None

Nicolas over on "future fatherhood" has posted a rather awkward video of himself singing "stars" from les mis. From listening to his rendition I'm wondering if he's ever actually seen the show or heard a recording of it (its really staccato in places it shouldnt be). His sister also has mentioned the younger kids singing "look down".

Les mis is NOT a fundie approved storyline. You have unwed mothers, prostitution, premarital sexual contact, murder, robbery, suicide, the entire act of "masters of the house"... I'm wondering if they've only seen it on clearplay (a device that removes violence, profanity, sex, nudity or anything else interesting) which would be odd considering that the whole thing is a story about a fraking revolution...

I just find it very interesting that they have found an interest in les mis. Its an incredible novel and amazing musical (I was lucky enough to see it on broadway with the original cast).

http://futurefatherhoodDOTblogspot.com/

Elle #1 [-]

Purity Baller

Posts: 2145

(04/22/11 18:55:19)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post I've read the book. No way in hell it's fundie-approved.

alphaeta08 #2 [-]

Secretly a Duggar

Posts: 507

(04/22/11 20:30:35)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post Aw man, I hate hearing people singing Les Mis badly! I mean, I feel bad criticizing the kid's first recital, but like you said, it doesn't sound like he's ever heard it performed. Definitely the most emotionless rendition I've ever heard. I'm thinking he chose it because it has a lot of references to God, and if you don't hear it in context, it could totally sound like it was all about God. Yeah, I doubt fundies would approve of the various sinful characters in the show/book. Buzzard, I would've LOVED to have seen the original Broadway cast!

Lillybee #3 [-]

Bought My House in Cash

Posts: 785

(04/22/11 21:46:47)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post I couldn't listen after the first few bars but at least I should be grateful that he didn't sing "Bring him home".

lipstickgoalie #4 [-]

Frumper Lover

Posts: 155

(04/22/11 22:08:03)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post Yikes! Like someone else said I don't think he has ever heard it performed. And I don't think that he really gets the context of that song either. It had some fundy buzzwords but beyond that I don't think that song is about what he thinks it is about. And I don't think that character is as sympathetic as he thinks he might be. ... Just yikes! I have to watch the 25th anniversary performance I have saved on the DVR in case of emergency. I wish I was kidding about that in case of emergency thing. Props to him for getting up there and singing and all but it might help to hear a song performed next time.

emmiedahl #5 [-]

Vision Forum Intern

Posts: 771

(04/22/11 22:54:24)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post The book was written by a well-known Catholic theologian. It's supposed to be a statement about how we can become reflections of God's mercy and forgiveness. I'm a little bit in love with the Catholic Church for this and a few other theological works.

debrand #6 [-]

Fundie Wedding Crasher

Posts: 5152

(04/23/11 05:55:27)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post Les Mis is one of these books that I read every couple of years. I am not certain how a fundie could read the book and not notice that not all the thinking is black and white.

GolightlyGrrl #7 [-]

Vision Forum Intern

Posts: 982

(04/23/11 07:44:24)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post "Les Miz" is performing in Milwaukee right now. My dad is taking my mom to a matinee this afternoon for her b-day.

Note to self: Read the book.

buzzard #8 [-]

Robobotkin

Posts: 651

(04/23/11 08:14:41)

Reply Quote Edit MoreMy Recent Posts Is there a fundie database out there somewhere in internet land where they pull songs out of context and determine they're acceptable so long as they're not seen in their original form? I'm quite certain that mama doiley didn't see the play or read the book, so how did they come across it?

In some sense, though, Javert is an acceptable parallel to him. Javert believed in something so strongly that he committed his life to it. He spent his life serving "justice" blindly, ignoring the fact that things are not black and white ( valjean HAD indeed changed). He refused to exercise independent thought to accept that the letter of the law was not always correct and would prefer to die than accept that as true... Sound like anyone we know?

While the original cast was great, eponine was MUCH better played by salonga. Oh, how I miss living in New York... Sometimes...

ems #9 [-]

Children Stacked Like Cordwood

Posts: 269

(04/23/11 08:14:49)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post The question should be fundies can understand Les Mis? :/.

buzzard #10 [-]

Robobotkin

Posts: 653

(04/23/11 08:24:07)

Reply Quote Edit MoreMy Recent Posts There is no way they have the ability to understand it! That would require actual historical knowledge, deductive reasoning, and the ability to see beyond the shiny things dangled in front of them.

JustPeachy #11 [-]

Blanket Trained

Posts: 22

(04/23/11 10:27:11)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post Golightlygrrl, it is a great book. You should definitely read it. My sixth grade teacher began reading it to our class back in the day. The school year ended long before he was done so I had to check it out from the library to finish. Loved it! I wanted to name my future daughter Cosette-at the time. Didn't have kids for another twenty years so I was on to other names by then.

sweetpea1 #12 [-]

Frumper Lover

Posts: 82

(04/23/11 10:37:08)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post JustPeachy wrote:

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Golightlygrrl, it is a great book. You should definitely read it. My sixth grade teacher began reading it to our class back in the day. The school year ended long before he was done so I had to check it out from the library to finish. Loved it! I wanted to name my future daughter Cosette-at the time. Didn't have kids for another twenty years so I was on to other names by then.

Really an awesome book. It's one of my favorites (up there with the Count of Monte Cristo.) One of the things on my bucket list is to read Les Mis in french. Maybe someday before I'm 98 years old.

buzzard #13 [-]

Robobotkin

Posts: 656

(04/23/11 10:59:41)

Reply Quote Edit MoreMy Recent Posts I used to have the cassette tapes of the French version. I like the English music better!

TheDormouse #14 [-]

Born To Be Plaid

Posts: 12

(04/23/11 11:22:16)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post Also if I remember well, there is a passage in the book where Hugo discusses atheism. Definitely not a book for fundies.

LisaG #15 [-]

Born To Be Plaid

Posts: 50

(04/23/11 13:36:15)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post JustPeachy wrote:

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Golightlygrrl, it is a great book. You should definitely read it. My sixth grade teacher began reading it to our class back in the day. The school year ended long before he was done so I had to check it out from the library to finish. Loved it! I wanted to name my future daughter Cosette-at the time. Didn't have kids for another twenty years so I was on to other names by then.

I wanted to name my future daughter "Cosette" in sixth grade too! But it was just because I really loved to sing "Castle on a Cloud," I didn't get around to reading the book until 8th grade English class.

Eponine #16 [-]

Frumper Lover

Posts: 94

(04/23/11 17:58:48)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post emmiedahl wrote:

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The book was written by a well-known Catholic theologian. It's supposed to be a statement about how we can become reflections of God's mercy and forgiveness. I'm a little bit in love with the Catholic Church for this and a few other theological works.

Victor Hugo was not a theologian in the least. He was/is the great symbol of Republicanism (classical republicanism, in no way corresponding to the modern US political party) in France - although religious (more like a Deist) he had turned away from the Catholic church by the time he wrote the book and was opposed to organized religion. The Catholic church attacked Les Misérables pretty severely when it came out; they had no love for it when it was published. Nor was the book supposed to be primarily any sort of religious text - Hugo was far more involved in the social problems of his time and was a huge advocate of social justice. If you got your information from a Catholic source I would be appalled that they're trying to appropriate the work of someone they actively disliked and who denounced them.

Here is the preface to the book, an absolutely amazing statement and of course still relevant today. Note that his main concerns are ignorance and poverty - fundies would certainly not agree with him!

"So long as there shall exist, by virtue of law and custom, decrees of damnation pronounced by society, artificially creating hells amid the civilization of earth, and adding the element of human fate to divine destiny; so long as the three great problems of the century-- the degradation of man through pauperism, the corruption of woman through hunger, the crippling of children through lack of light-- are unsolved; so long as social asphyxia is possible in any part of the world;--in other words, and with a still wider significance, so long as ignorance and poverty exist on earth, books of the nature of Les Miserables cannot fail to be of use."

antigonesev #17 [-]

I AM The Sin In The Camp

Posts: 198

(04/23/11 18:35:31)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post I just adore Les Mis. I have the DVD with Liam Neeson and Geoffrey Rush. They make an amazing Javert/Valjean team. I did read the book as well but it was at least 15 years ago :-P I did want to name my son Valjean, but my husband decided to veto that one it helped that it turned out to be a girl after all.

I never saw any of the plays, but if they ever do a play locally, I will go see it, and hopefully my daughter will be old enough by then to accompany me of her own will, at least :-P

buzzard #18 [-]

Robobotkin

Posts: 658

(04/23/11 18:37:26)

Reply Quote Edit MoreMy Recent Posts ignorance and poverty ... thats what they thrive on!

Elle #19 [-]

Purity Baller

Posts: 2169

(04/23/11 20:39:58)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post The film version is lacking a lot, IMO. But that might be because I've read the book. The spirit is there, but it's like reading Phantom of the Opera and then seeing the production, as I did, and then if there were to be a non-musical film.

I just watched the recital, at least most of it. Nice vibrato he's got. But he clearly has no idea what the song is about.

Eponine #20 [-]

Frumper Lover

Posts: 99

(04/23/11 21:20:40)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post The best film version is the super long French one with Gerard Depardieu, Charlotte Gainsbourg, and John Malkovich. There are a few issues but at least it has Eponine (my namesake of course )and Enjolras! Watch it if you can get a hold of it.

Vivimusic #21 [-]

Frumper Lover

Posts: 95

(04/23/11 21:31:59)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post Eponine wrote:

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emmiedahl wrote:

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The book was written by a well-known Catholic theologian. It's supposed to be a statement about how we can become reflections of God's mercy and forgiveness. I'm a little bit in love with the Catholic Church for this and a few other theological works.

Victor Hugo was not a theologian in the least. He was/is the great symbol of Republicanism (classical republicanism, in no way corresponding to the modern US political party) in France - although religious (more like a Deist) he had turned away from the Catholic church by the time he wrote the book and was opposed to organized religion. The Catholic church attacked Les Misérables pretty severely when it came out; they had no love for it when it was published. Nor was the book supposed to be primarily any sort of religious text - Hugo was far more involved in the social problems of his time and was a huge advocate of social justice. If you got your information from a Catholic source I would be appalled that they're trying to appropriate the work of someone they actively disliked and who denounced them.

Here is the preface to the book, an absolutely amazing statement and of course still relevant today. Note that his main concerns are ignorance and poverty - fundies would certainly not agree with him!

"So long as there shall exist, by virtue of law and custom, decrees of damnation pronounced by society, artificially creating hells amid the civilization of earth, and adding the element of human fate to divine destiny; so long as the three great problems of the century-- the degradation of man through pauperism, the corruption of woman through hunger, the crippling of children through lack of light-- are unsolved; so long as social asphyxia is possible in any part of the world;--in other words, and with a still wider significance, so long as ignorance and poverty exist on earth, books of the nature of Les Miserables cannot fail to be of use."Ahhh I'm so glad that someone else who actually knows some French History! :P Victor Hugo is just amazing. I never read Les Misérables, but I did try to read The Hunchback of Notre-Dame, but I was to young at the time. But yeah, reading it is definitely on my ''do to list''.

lalapendragon #22 [-]

Tater Tot

Posts: 10

(04/23/11 21:36:19)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post Emmiedahl, in what way could Victor Hugo be considered to be a Catholic theologian? He grew radically anti-clerical particularly towards the end of his life from what I understand to be the poor response of the Church towards the working poor. I am all over C.S Lewis and totally love him for Practical Christianity and Narnia and his brother wrote several wonderful books about 17th Century France.

Eponine #23 [-]

Frumper Lover

Posts: 100

(04/23/11 22:28:36)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post Vivimusic wrote:

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Ahhh I'm so glad that someone else who actually knows some French History! :P Victor Hugo is just amazing. I never read Les Misérables, but I did try to read The Hunchback of Notre-Dame, but I was to young at the time. But yeah, reading it is definitely on my ''do to list''.

I'm doing a PhD in French history, so yes I do know it fairly well. Also Hugo is my favorite writer ever. I felt I had to defend him, as I'm sure he's rolling 400 mph in his grave at being labeled a Catholic theologian! Notre-Dame de Paris is a great book as well. His lesser known ones - Quatrevingt Treize (Ninety-Three) and Les Travailleurs de la Mer (Toilers of the Sea in English I think?) are also excellent. And of course his poetry is fantastic. Well, I could go on about him all day but I won't! Les Mis is a bit intimidating to pick up at around 1400-1500 pages so I always encourage people to try to get through an abridged version first.

lalapendragon #24 [-]

Tater Tot

Posts: 11

(04/24/11 13:50:27)

Reply Quote MoreMy Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post I would consider myself very in the know about 18th century France less so 19th century and my particular area of interest is the Court of Louis XIV, have a M.A and am all but dissertation on the Ph.D. I am quite a fan of the brother of the Sun King - Phillipe d'Orleans and his son the Regent. Nancy Mitford calls him the most famous sodomite in history - 2 wives, an official mistress, eleven children of whom four survived and he is the grandfather of all of Catholic Europe. And his house in Paris the Palais Royale is still standing and a wonderful place to visit. His country home St. Cloud is all but gone except for some out buildings but the gardens were reputed to be even more wonderful than Versailles. His second wife Elisabeth Charlotte wrote about a jillion letters to her family and step-daughters that make for highly entertaining reading.

[Buzzard]

So, it does appear that the love of this show has allowed quite a few of them to burst their little bubbles and venture into the world of sin!

anna-sendmeasong.blogspot.com/search/label/Les%20Miserables

This particular homeschool graduate is a friend of the sister in the original link, found here:

alexandra-thevalueofone.blogspot.com/

I have to admit, I'm impressed with this girl. Sure, life is all lolipops and cotton candy, but she writes well and actually grasps the show, rather than fainting at the use of a bad word. I'm impressed that she can understand there are times when such language is appropriate and needed to accurately convey a concept. The comments are mostly on par with her.

This is one of the main problems I have with that silly DVD player that cuts out all the sex/violence/language etc. Sure, some of it is superflous, but some of it is part of the literature itself.

Do I think Alexandra saw the real thing? No way! Mommy is too busy making doilies for the next tea party and playing the quiet game... but I can hope...