Elizabeth Smart Engaged!

[Letgo]

Am I the only one who thinks her husband-to-be looks to be about 15? He just appears so young to me.

I really hope marriage and life go well for Elizabeth. She suffered such a horrendous ordeal. I hope if she needs help as an adult she can get it from a qualified person, not an LDS elder. I know the Smarts are devout Mormons, but really, an elder to counsel a child who was kidnapped, raped, starved, chained, abused, and brainwashed?

[Katiebug]

IMO she's fairly old to get married for a BYU student - 24 is downright ancient at a school where more than 50% are married and a sizable percentage of those are parents by graduation, and where many female students graduate at 21 or 22 (and many who marry and have babies end up dropping out). And she served a mission, which is not as much of a normative experience for young LDS women as it is for young men. The church's handbook of instructions to leaders states clearly that a young woman should not be approved to go on a mission if there's any chance of marriage on the horizon. The Salt Lake Tribune says that they met while she was on her mission last year.

Sometimes she's got this wannabe Jackie O/Stepford Wife style going on and sometimes she is dressed more stylishly for a young woman today. Since she was a missionary she's endowed and has to wear garments so perhaps she feels a little more limited. I think she could stand to be a bit less made-up.

In the pictures of the two of them, they both look really happy and she's more natural than she usually does when in the media spotlight. I hope that she's either sought therapy on her own (she is an adult) or that she will be prior to the wedding.

[Austin]

Well I'm happy for her.

And really, maybe she's still struggling (as most people probably would be, therapy or not) or not, but I don't think you can tell if you don't know her. I know even if I really am happy it tends to look super fake in posed pictures.

I actually hadn't even looked at the photo associated with the OP. I was speaking of the look in her eyes when I've seen her on television speaking. No, I don't know her (but we don't *know* most of the people ever discussed on FJ), but the vacant look is my opinion based on my repeated observations of her in various speaking situations. And I first developed that opinion before I found out she had no counseling for what was an extremely protracted, traumatic ordeal.

I think everyone wishes her the best and we all hope that she has a happy fulfilling life. So no one is *not* happy for her. But enough of us have endured very traumatic events and know that one doesn't just "put that behind" themselves. People do process things differently, but there is a spectrum of ways to internalize and process events. If she was able to just put that all aside with no negative effects on her life without any qualified therapy, she would be a very rare creature, indeed. Like a unicorn.

[apple1]

I think everyone wishes her the best and we all hope that she has a happy fulfilling life. So no one is *not* happy for her. But enough of us have endured very traumatic events and know that one doesn't just "put that behind" themselves. People do process things differently, but there is a spectrum of ways to internalize and process events. If she was able to just put that all aside with no negative effects on her life without any qualified therapy, she would be a very rare creature, indeed. Like a unicorn.

Totally agree with Austin.

The human psyche is able to dissociate as a temporary coping mechanism for experiences that are too difficult. Sometimes that dissociation can last for years or even decades. But eventually the dissociative "coping" mechanism will fail. Pretty much guaranteed.

I find myself amazed that, given her ordeal, the "put it behind" (i.e. denial) mechanism is believed to have worked.

[alysee]

I hope she can have a normal sex life. From what I've heard about Mormons and no sex before marriage plus the whole being raped every day could give her flashbacks...

[bekkah]

This is why I'm worried. The more I find out about mormons, the more I see a lot of abuse by the faith. I didn't know that she never received therapy but when I first opened the people article there was just something off about her. I think that is very telling. I'm assuming she went to BYU, and didn't find a husband is surprising. I do think its good that she is older but I hope her husband to be knows the whole truth or otherwise the marriage will not work.

[Daenerys]

This is why I'm worried. The more I find out about mormons, the more I see a lot of abuse by the faith. I didn't know that she never received therapy but when I first opened the people article there was just something off about her. I think that is very telling. I'm assuming she went to BYU, and didn't find a husband is surprising. I do think its good that she is older but I hope her husband to be knows the whole truth or otherwise the marriage will not work.

I really hope she wasn't written off for being 'spoilt goods' but I don't know... it's a big downside to the virginity cult and leads less publicised rape victims to hold their silence.

[hoipolloi]

I really hope she wasn't written off for being 'spoilt goods' but I don't know... it's a big downside to the virginity cult and leads less publicised rape victims to hold their silence.

IIRC, the church leadership made some vague but public pronouncement when she escaped her captivity about her being absolutely innocent and that her purity had not been diminished or destroyed by the prolonged sexual abuse.

[BravaAmica]

IIRC, the church leadership made some vague but public pronouncement when she escaped her captivity about her being absolutely innocent and that her purity had not been diminished or destroyed by the prolonged sexual abuse.

Now if only that would proclaim that for the rest of sexual abuse victims.

[Rachel333]

Now if only that would proclaim that for the rest of sexual abuse victims.

They kind of have. From the church's official website: "Victims of abuse should be assured that they are not to blame for the harmful behavior of others. They do not need to feel guilt. If they have been a victim of rape or other sexual abuse, whether they have been abused by an acquaintance, a stranger, or even a family member, victims of sexual abuse are not guilty of sexual sin."

http://lds.org/study/topics/abuse?lang= ... xual+abuse

[icecreamycakeycake]

Well, she's strong enough to pwn Nancy Grace

[liltwinstar]

I'm happy for her, and I think the fact that her fiance is not from the US bodes well for her/them. I'm thinking that maybe he wouldn't have been as aware of the media reports of her ordeal, and hopefully he got to know her as a person before knowing about her past trauma. I think it probably would have been hard for her to date in the US, just because her story was so well-known.

Not saying she's damaged goods or anything like that - it would just be awkward to date men who knew all about your kidnap and rape, and then try to form a relationship. Seems that revelations about past traumas need to come when some level trust has already been built.

I hope that she can get whatever help she needs to have a healthy happy life - if prayer works for her, great, but if she needs therapy, I hope she can get that too.

[fakepigtails73]

Every time I see her on television, she seems to have a really vacant look behind her eyes. I can't get over the feeling when I see her that this is going to catch up with her, although I hope I'm wrong and she has a really happy, peaceful life.

But she was in the hands of a rapist and brainwasher for what? Something like nine months? How are "the elders" qualified to deal with that?

I thought the same as you did...

I hope that she'll be happy in her marriage.

I remember when she vanished, Nancy Grace accused a handyman who worked at the Smarts of the kinapping. Poor man died in custody for a crime he didn't commit (I'm not 100% sure but did he kill himself??). It was because of the "Richard Jewel-like" accusations that I developped a dislike for Nancy Grace.

And her real kidnappers were creepy as hell, eating rotten foods and all.

[Lainey]

Well, she's strong enough to pwn Nancy Grace

Ha! That's awesome. I also like the way she at first answered NG's questions with this, "Uh, duh...moron" look on her face. :lol:

[GenerationCedarchip]

Oh, I hope she will have a happy life. I agree with Austin that she often seems to have a vacant look in her eyes when I see her on TV. I was also a little worried because the first account I saw mentioned not only how she met this guy while she was on mission, but also that they had what was described as a "whirlwind courtship." Still, he sounds like a nice guy from what little bit is out there.

[Phyllis Stein]

Every time I see her on television, she seems to have a really vacant look behind her eyes. I can't get over the feeling when I see her that this is going to catch up with her, although I hope I'm wrong and she has a really happy, peaceful life. quote]

This. I don't get a good feeling about her at all. I hope she is healthy and happy and it all works out but I am concerned for her.

[Samantha]

They kind of have. From the church's official website: "Victims of abuse should be assured that they are not to blame for the harmful behavior of others. They do not need to feel guilt. If they have been a victim of rape or other sexual abuse, whether they have been abused by an acquaintance, a stranger, or even a family member, victims of sexual abuse are not guilty of sexual sin."

http://lds.org/study/topics/abuse?lang= ... xual+abuse

I wonder if they wrote that before or after Spencer W. Kimball wrote The Miracle of Forgiveness and said

Also far-reaching is the effect of loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one’s virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle.

Or this from Mormon Doctrine

Better dead clean, than alive unclean. Many is the faithful Latter-day Saint parent who has sent a son or daughter on a mission or otherwise out into the world with the direction, 'I would rather have you come back home in a pine box with your virtue than return alive without it.

Yeah, I remember hearing similar things in chastity lessons four to five years ago. So despite what the church website says, it is still very much taught to blame the victim in mormonism. :roll: