Homosexuals in the Orthodox Jewish Community

[Ralar]

Rabbi Zev Farber suggests, "The Orthodox community should adopt the stance of 'oness rahmana patrei' – The Merciful One overlooks what is out of a person’s control." Too bad fundies (of all ilks) seem to know better. . .

http://morethodoxy.org/2012/01/11/homosexuals-in-the-orthodox-community-by-rabbi-zev-farber/

[Witsec7]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0278102/

Tremblig Before G-d is a great film about gay Orthodox.

[Beeks]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0278102/

Tremblig Before G-d is a great film about gay Orthodox.

Thanks for the reminder! I've been meaning to watch this.

[Witsec7]

Its a powerful and heartbreaking film Beeks.

[ilovetchotchkes]

Its a powerful and heartbreaking film Beeks.

I felt so much for the people shown!

[2xx1xy1JD]

Farber's argument is interesting, and I may bring it up with my study group next month.

At the same time, I'm not sure about the use of this particular concept, and if it would have unintended consequences.

Farber seems to be saying that if celibacy would be too hard, then G-d will forgive a lapse. The problem that I have with this is that I can picture other situations, not involving homosexuality, in which we fully expect people to resist sexual urges.

What about:

- someone married to a spouse with an illness or disability?

- someone who is in love with someone else from a different faith?

- someone who is experiencing extreme difficulties in finding a partner due to unchangeable personal characteristics?

- someone who is strongly aroused by sadism, which can't be satisfied by obvious role-play in which safe words are used?

- someone who is primarily attracted to children or adolescents?

Do we really want a religious doctrine that says that people - especially men - are incapable of controlling their sexual actions? What are the implications? I know that Farber has the best of intentions and isn't remotely on the same page as the fundies who speak of the evil of "defrauding", but once a legal concept is used, you don't really have any control over how it evolves and gets used in the future.

[emmiedahl]

It's not just about sexuality vs. celibacy, though. Judaism considers a partner and a family pretty much essential, and it is not fair to ask people to choose between their religion and their need for companionship and family.

[Rachel333]

I watched Trembling Before G-d a while back It was really good, and you can watch it free on Hulu: http://www.hulu.com/watch/76545/trembling-before-g-d

[2xx1xy1JD]

The issue was just discussed on imamother:

http://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

Considering that the site is only open to married Orthodox Jewish women and that you can get booted off for heresy, I was pleasantly surprised to see some more moderate and nuanced views, and to see that "reparative therapy" was widely rejected. [i was also pleasantly surprised to see that Mitzvahmom's ex is doing better, as I remember when she was going through hell with him.]

[Beeks]

I watched Trembling Before G-d a while back It was really good, and you can watch it free on Hulu: http://www.hulu.com/watch/76545/trembling-before-g-d

Thanks, I just finished it. Great, great movie - I loved it.

Somebody tell me whether I'm being biased here. I watched this and "For the Bible Tells Me So" and while I feel for all gay people who face any form of rejection, etc., I thought most of the rabbis interviewed for this film were more caring and respectful than most of the right-wing Christian attitudes we see.

[Witsec7]

The Rabbis disagreed theologically, but still had human empathy, the xtians in FTBTMS did not experience empathy. I think the Rabbis recognized that these folks were 'good' Jews, but the law was the law.

[Beeks]

The Rabbis disagreed theologically, but still had human empathy, the xtians in FTBTMS did not experience empathy. I think the Rabbis recognized that these folks were 'good' Jews, but the law was the law.

Yes, thank you for putting that better than I could. They still seemed to have compassion for the people who were obviously in such pain. I don't know how much better that really is though, considering people are still feeling so disconnected from their communities and hopeless that they are committing suicide.

[Witsec7]

These women and men wanted to stay a part of the Orthodox community, and would accept no compromise even though there are Reformed and Reconstructionist congregations that would be willing to have them on their terms. My cousin by marriage moved closer to Orthodoxy as she grew older, and after she was partnered. Now she lives as an Orthodox while being a member of a reformed congregation. Her partner is a Christian. I guess its difficult with the folks who begin their lives as Orthodox whose parents sit shiva when they come out. They are exiles, and the communities they once belonged to act as if they never existed, their own familys remove all evidence of their lives.

Eh, this was one of the saddest films I ever watched. I was so impressed by the faith and good will of these Jews, it was hard not to feel their pain.