The Rightward Swing of the US

[emmiedahl]

I could not find anything about this on the web. But this concept is kind of forming in my head and I have to share. :D

We have talked a bit on the board about the move toward the right in the Republican party. But does it not seem that the Democrats are moving right as well? Especially right now. I think they are hoping that if they act moderate and leave their ideology at the door, they will pick up a lot of voters that are alienating by the ultra-conservatives. People like my husband, for example. And this is a good political ploy as far as the 2012 election goes, but it kind of concerns me.

The Democrats now act a lot like Republicans in the nineties. And the Republicans now sound like they are from another planet. The trend disturbs me. For the first time in my life, people are talking about how unnecessary public schools are, and whether it is okay for a woman to have an abortion if her life is threatened. And similar.

Where did the left go? It does not seem like Americans are moving to the right as quickly as our government! What the fuck is going on here? Is this a pendulum that will swing the other way? Are leftists just laying low and waiting for the shit to settle?

[Constance Vigilance]

I have absolutely no idea where your left has gone, or why Democrats are trying to appeal to socially and financially conservative Republican voters (that's what Republicans are for?) I know so many amazing lefty Americans, and no one in politics seems to represent them.

So yes, no answers, but you aren't the only one who's wondering.

[alba]

I don't know what's going on in the US, but I'm forever amazed that your two main parties are like our Conservative party and, er, even more right of our Conservatives (though I don't think they're quite as bad as the BNP - not most of them, anyway). It just blows my mind. I really, really hope that the Democrats swing back to genuinely left-of-centre, if not legitimately left-wing. Or, perhaps, a new left-wing party could rise from the ashes of the former Democratic party to represent all the Americans who are currently not represented by either political party.

[meda]

As leftist and a person who makes up a traditional constituency of the Democratic party, we are not laying low, we are being ignored, marginalized and belittled by the "liberals" in the party with more money. The people making decisions in my political party are middle of the road wealthy people who are vaguely pro choice, vaguely for programs to help the poor, (and not all poor mind you: not the rural poor, and certainly not the working poor who might have the audacity to join a union and try to improve their working conditions), the folks in power also are huge fans of the financial sector and globalization.

They do really like the environment and seem to be in favor of programs that remove all of the unattractive rural poor people from their "viewsheds" (I exagarate slightly, although it's sad that the only climate change solutions that are considered are ones that don't interfere with a certain upper middle class first world standard of living) In the olden days of 40 years ago, they would have been called Country cluB republicans and voted for Nixon. There is nothing wrong really with being that type of Democrat, being a moderate is fine, it's just surreal to me that people like the President and Larry Summers are being held up as examples of "the Left"

[emmiedahl]

Meda, I know! They are all so wealthy that any meaningful change would interfere with their own standard of living. Don't get me started on Al Gore...

I get worried that there is no real leftist voice anymore. There are the crazy Republicans, and the Democrats saying, "Look, we are not nearly as crazy!"

Most of the Republicans I know are considering Obama for their vote more than any of the current conservative candidates. If the conservatives are voting for Obama, who the fuck are liberals supposed to vote for?!?!?

[Austin]

I agree that there are few true liberals out there in office. It kind of cracks me up when all these idiots call President Obama a socialist/ultra-liberal/leftist. I read an article comparing Obama's policies with Nixon's, and Obama is actually slightly to the right of Nixon overall. :shock:

I can't even think of a liberal who has run for any significant office who has been anti-death penalty, for instance.

[StarrieEyedKat]

If the conservatives are voting for Obama, who the fuck are liberals supposed to vote for?!?!?

Ru Paul?

Seriously though, I'm glad you brought this up, because I've been feeling the same way and it's kind of getting scary...

[meda]

Bernie Saunders! I swear I want to start a write in campaign to elect him as president

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders

I find it strangely comforting that I live next to Canada and the Peoples Republic of Vermont, I can flee quickly in case my own governor (Cuomo, prime example of wealthy clueless "liberal") totally goes off the deep end.

[emmiedahl]

I love it! She (or he? is RuPaul officially one or the other?) would probably do as well as anyone else running.

When I think of the things that are classic left attitudes--anti-war, anti-death penalty, pro-wealth distribution, pro-environment, pro-choice in all cases--I cannot think of a single person who fits the description. Except maybe Hillary Clinton, but she has mellowed out because of her current role in the government.

[lizzy]

Bernie Saunders! I swear I want to start a write in campaign to elect him as president

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders

I find it strangely comforting that I live next to Canada and the Peoples Republic of Vermont, I can flee quickly in case my own governor (Cuomo, prime example of wealthy clueless "liberal") totally goes off the deep end.

Didn't he announce that he was not seeking reelection? Retiring maybe?

[Crackedeggs]

Borderline Rural Poor here... yep, the Rural Poor are the new untouchables of America. And because of that, droves of them are flocking to the Tea Party, who really is just a mechanism of the same class that wants to drive them out of existence. (The upper middle, the wealthy). Rednecks are universally scorned, and it's OK to do so. God help you if you admit you work or shop at Wal Mart.

The right wing sees things like the Occupy Movement as just as scary crazy as the left sees the Tea Party. What I see is an ever increasing polarization that scares the crap out of me. I don't fit in either camp, which bothers me even more, cause whoever wins, I get my ass kicked for not "thinking right".

if I was one of my more tinfoil hat wearing friends, I'd suggest that the upper middle and wealthy classes want to herd all the poor into cramped urban conditions, because then we are easy to corral and control or exterminate. The Rural poor, be they donkey or elephant, can hunt and forage to live, they aren't easily caught and interred. I don't quite believe this yet, but man, sometimes, I sure could.

Oh yeah, and Tim freaking Tebow. Because he is marketing his faith, it suddenly is un-christian if you root for the other team, and you will get your ass handed too you if you do. We are a Steelers Family here, been that way for years. Last night, we were getting ripped and ripped and ripped by certain "friends", and it was OK for the good natured football rivalry ribbing to get nasty in everyone's book involved because of Tim Fucking Tebow. I know it's a silly thing, but I dumped friends last night off facebook over this moronacy.

Unions have become, to the working poor like me, almost an oppressor equal to that upper middle class bitch on the PTA who thinks our kids are white trash. If we are really lucky, we'll get a job where there is a union, and one that allows new hires to get good wages and benes and quite a few of them, for whatever reason, do not. Different contracts for different years of hire, and you don't have a shit chance of doing much better. That is if there is a union at all for what you do, there isn't one for what I do.. there isn't one for Wal Mart workers, or burger flippers .... but hey, the teachers union, who's workers all make at the very least 2 x what I do and some 3 or 4 times what I do AND get mostly covered health insurance that is GOOD insurance... they can go on strike, and cost us poor white trash moms day care or job hours, because our kids won't be in school. It's not hard at all to not want to champion their strike under those conditions.

We need a restructuring of how we see left and right.. there needs to be more than one party, because there is more than black and white, there are shades of gray.

And I hope to god the Patriots beat Denver, I'm sick of hearing about St. Tebow.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I've noticed that too. And it kinda concerns me. Our Conservative party, which is as rightward as we get, is the equivalent of your Democratic Party. So living in Canada we have choices that are to the left of the Democrats (one a bit to the left, and one significantly more left). We don't have anything that even kind of approaches the crazy that the modern Republican party has become. I too am confused when people call Obama a socialist/commie/whatever. Do they not realize he's still pretty rightward leaning? We have politicians way more to the left of Obama in Canada, and no one is calling them socialist (but I don't think we have the same attitude that socialist is a dirty word). If someone as crazy as Santorum got elected and I had enough room, I'd invite you all to come to Canada and crash with me for a while:)

[Alecto]

I love it! She (or he? is RuPaul officially one or the other?) would probably do as well as anyone else running.

Either is acceptable, though usually it is "he" when discussing the actor RuPaul Charles and "she" when discussing the character/drag queen RuPaul.

[meda]

I thought this was an interesting article on Ron Paul's appeal, and why the left does not really have a good critique or response.

http://www.alternet.org/story/153692/wh ... age=entire

Crackedeggs, About the Unions, I have organized low wage workers, and it is fucking hard. Not only is it physically dangerous, but there are very few protections for workers during a union campaign. I can file a 100 Unfair Labor Practice charges, and the employer will commit 1000 more. There is no union in this country that has as deep pockets as a Walmart or Smithfield's or Tyson. It's not like unions don't know or don't care about those workers, but a union can't keep throwing members dues money down a black hole of an organizing campaign if all that's going to happen is that a lot of people who want a union get fired.

[Crackedeggs]

I thought this was an interesting article on Ron Paul's appeal, and why the left does not really have a good critique or response.

http://www.alternet.org/story/153692/wh ... age=entire

Crackedeggs, About the Unions, I have organized low wage workers, and it is fucking hard. Not only is it physically dangerous, but there are very few protections for workers during a union campaign. I can file a 100 Unfair Labor Practice charges, and the employer will commit 1000 more. There is no union in this country that has as deep pockets as a Walmart or Smithfield's or Tyson. It's not like unions don't know or don't care about those workers, but a union can't keep throwing members dues money down a black hole of an organizing campaign if all that's going to happen is that a lot of people who want a union get fired.

[emmiedahl]

To be honest, I don't fit well with either party. On that political index, I came out as far left, which surprised me. But none of my friends were surprised, so maybe I am missing something crucial about what makes one left or right.

I actually agree that the war on drugs has some grounding in both racism and classism. I am for the legalization of at least marijuana and possibly other drugs depending on how it is actually handled. And I am against what the war has become. We identified two people that we wanted out of power for various reasons, and while there are defects in the arguments against them, they were both very bad men and the world is better without them. So Hussein and Bin Laden are gone, and we need to be gone from the Middle East as well.

Obama backed the fuck down on the healthcare public option and created a monster of a compromise bill. Ditto with the economic recovery act, it became this inflated waste of money that was supposed to stimulate the economy by paying for parades in Ohio. It was not just Obama, but I am in the habit of blaming the leader. He promised to herd the cats, and the cats were running amok and pissing everywhere. If he had said during his campaign, "I don't know how to control these bitches. I mean, I'll try, but there are no guarantees when you are dealing with crazy people," then I would harbor no resentment. But he would not have been elected if he had been realistic like that.

I will still be voting for him, just to vote against whatever lunatic fascist makes it onto the Republican bill.

I see the same class warfare that CrackedEggs is talking about. The entire discussion on poverty has been set up with the assumption that I am a lazy, stupid bitch who can't be bothered to do anything for myself. That is the assumption that both sides seem to be working with; their disagreement is whether my kids should starve and whether they should see a doctor occasionally. The lazy stupid bitch assumption is central to the current poverty debate.

[FloraDoraDolly]

THIS!!! Except I'm in a suburban area of Detroit that is increasingly becoming indistinguishable from the big, bad city. Abandoned houses, vacant storefronts, crime, homelessness, declining schools... Not much of a difference anymore.

Borderline Rural Poor here... yep, the Rural Poor are the new untouchables of America. And because of that, droves of them are flocking to the Tea Party, who really is just a mechanism of the same class that wants to drive them out of existence. (The upper middle, the wealthy). Rednecks are universally scorned, and it's OK to do so. God help you if you admit you work or shop at Wal Mart.

The right wing sees things like the Occupy Movement as just as scary crazy as the left sees the Tea Party. What I see is an ever increasing polarization that scares the crap out of me. I don't fit in either camp, which bothers me even more, cause whoever wins, I get my ass kicked for not "thinking right".

if I was one of my more tinfoil hat wearing friends, I'd suggest that the upper middle and wealthy classes want to herd all the poor into cramped urban conditions, because then we are easy to corral and control or exterminate. The Rural poor, be they donkey or elephant, can hunt and forage to live, they aren't easily caught and interred. I don't quite believe this yet, but man, sometimes, I sure could.

Oh yeah, and Tim freaking Tebow. Because he is marketing his faith, it suddenly is un-christian if you root for the other team, and you will get your ass handed too you if you do. We are a Steelers Family here, been that way for years. Last night, we were getting ripped and ripped and ripped by certain "friends", and it was OK for the good natured football rivalry ribbing to get nasty in everyone's book involved because of Tim Fucking Tebow. I know it's a silly thing, but I dumped friends last night off facebook over this moronacy.

Unions have become, to the working poor like me, almost an oppressor equal to that upper middle class bitch on the PTA who thinks our kids are white trash. If we are really lucky, we'll get a job where there is a union, and one that allows new hires to get good wages and benes and quite a few of them, for whatever reason, do not. Different contracts for different years of hire, and you don't have a shit chance of doing much better. That is if there is a union at all for what you do, there isn't one for what I do.. there isn't one for Wal Mart workers, or burger flippers .... but hey, the teachers union, who's workers all make at the very least 2 x what I do and some 3 or 4 times what I do AND get mostly covered health insurance that is GOOD insurance... they can go on strike, and cost us poor white trash moms day care or job hours, because our kids won't be in school. It's not hard at all to not want to champion their strike under those conditions.

We need a restructuring of how we see left and right.. there needs to be more than one party, because there is more than black and white, there are shades of gray.

And I hope to god the Patriots beat Denver, I'm sick of hearing about St. Tebow.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I've noticed that too. And it kinda concerns me. Our Conservative party, which is as rightward as we get, is the equivalent of your Democratic Party. So living in Canada we have choices that are to the left of the Democrats (one a bit to the left, and one significantly more left). We don't have anything that even kind of approaches the crazy that the modern Republican party has become. I too am confused when people call Obama a socialist/commie/whatever. Do they not realize he's still pretty rightward leaning? We have politicians way more to the left of Obama in Canada, and no one is calling them socialist (but I don't think we have the same attitude that socialist is a dirty word). If someone as crazy as Santorum got elected and I had enough room, I'd invite you all to come to Canada and crash with me for a while:)

[emmiedahl]

So, what makes one 'conservative' in Canada?

I know I can just google that, but I think an in-person explanation will be more succinct and accurate.

[fundiefan]

My thoughts aren't fully formed or comprehended, but *this* is what scares me about Ron Paul. I see so many far right folks supporting him, but I also see far too many 'liberals' supporting him. He gets enough of the votes from the mid-liners, of both parties, and we could all be screwed.

I'm also disgusted by liberals/left leaners backing down and playing the compromise game. I am admittedly completely disappointed in Obama. He has no backbone and that only serves to make the right-wingers feel more vindicated. I will vote for him in November, but I only because I cannot vote for anyone going against him. In this case, the devil I know is absolutely better than the one I don't know.

Again, unformed and incomplete thoughts but I think, at least in part, the sorry state of the world economy has people running scared. They want answers. They don't want ideas or reason or time. They want answers and 'quick fixes' and they want excuses and blame. Anything to allow them to believe that they themselves are victims of larger forces and a world out of control. Religious devotion rises in hard times. An evil, horrible world that infringes on *your* rights by allowing gays to marry and babies to be killed and the poor to be fed are tangible reasons for the pathetic state of the economy. The word taxes is a buzz word; there is little to no concept behind it. It's a word that invokes emotion and disgust and it's used by all as a means to an end. The word alone, never mind meaning. The last decade we've been ruled by fear because people need a villain. The British, the Blacks, the Russians, the Muslims. There will always be something/someone.

[Cran]

As an outsider, I perceive the US-Republicans as, sorry, batshit crazy. Exactly the type of politicians many bloggers we discuss here would like, ergo something I do not like.

I have said it on here before: Our idea of conservative is Angela Merkel. Nobody associates death-penalty and the end of social healthcare with her, and anyone who would make such demands wouldn't stand a chance being elected.

More parties give, in my opinion, more balance to a system. Not too many, see Republic of Weimar, but I think 4-8 parties will do it.

But apart from politics, I believe radicalization (right word?) to be the main problem of our time. No grays any more, everything black and white. Like, Muslims bad, public school bad, everything baaaaaaaaad (and two legs bad, of course). Perhaps a reaction to the real or imagined loss of security many people on the rich countries have felt, especially since 9/11.

[emmiedahl]

fundiefan, I totally know what you are saying.

My mom. My pot-smoking hippie mom who burned her bra in the seventies. She liked Ron Paul last election because of his drug and war stances. I really think it is all about the weed for her; she lives in a medicinal marijuana state, but she wants the feds out of the picture. She also has this anti-establishment thing that he could really appeal to. I think she will vote for him. Scary, huh? Although the racist thing might get to her; I'll have to send her that article.

[StarrieEyedKat]

As an outsider, I perceive the US-Republicans as, sorry, batshit crazy.

[Gizmola]

I'm glad I'm not the only one scared witless about what the political system has become. On both sides. There's no one I believe in anymore, no one that represents my views. I'm pro-gay marriage, pro-choice (no matter when/what/who, no parental consent needed, no waiting period, no mandatory sonograms or lectures), pro-environment, pro-public schools/libraries/universities, pro-union, anti-death penalty, anti-war, pro-healthcare coverage, pro-social programs, pro-rehabilitation of convicts w/drug rehab, pro-legalize marijuana, pro-OSHA, pro-flat tax (no loopholes for the wealthy), pro-Social Security, etc.

It's the point that I don't post ANY of that stuff on Facebook. I'm terrified of the anger and vitriol I'd get from people who, normally, seem like very nice people whom I've known, some, all my life.

The level of bipartisan anger is scary to me. Like, seriously wouldn't be surprised when/if public officials get attacked and or shot. I really think people have lost any sense of control and are completely controlled by base emotions and are just powder kegs. And whatever side you're on, the other side hates you and wants you gone, eliminated and exterminated. It's just very, very scary to me. These people are not open to dialogue, debate or compromise. They are honed in on "the enemy" and are seeking to destroy them.

Sigh. Thanks for being a safe place where I can, for the first time in I don't know how long, express how I feel politically and not worry that it's going to explode into angry words and/or threats of violence.

[emmiedahl]

I think mainstream Republicans are not that bad. Most of them are being won over by sound bytes and ideology, not really looking at voting records or thinking their assumptions through to a logical end. That kind of ignorance is as American as apple pie. The Republican leadership, though, is positively evil. I used to think both parties were equally evil and at some point that was probably true. But the Republicans want to hurt people. You can't tell me that the leadership has not thought through their policies. They have, and they know the destruction that will result, and they just don't care.

Gizmola, I am also thankful for FreeJinger, my oasis in the desert of crazy.