The Rightward Swing of the US

[Crackedeggs]

Funny you say you are for Flat Tax, Giz. A lot of the right wingers I know are for that because they think everyone should have to give up the same percentage of their wages, never mind that 10$ to a person that only has $100 may mean they choose between shelter, heat and food, and that $10k to a person who has $100K means that they will take one or two less trips to Cabo this year.

[Gizmola]

Funny you say you are for Flat Tax, Giz. A lot of the right wingers I know are for that because they think everyone should have to give up the same percentage of their wages, never mind that 10$ to a person that only has $100 may mean they choose between shelter, heat and food, and that $10k to a person who has $100K means that they will take one or two less trips to Cabo this year.

[emmiedahl]

I think a flat tax could work if there were exemptions for people under a certain income level. A lot of wealthy people would be paying a lot more money, so I am surprised so many conservatives support it. I would like to see a tax "base" for people over certain incomes, like the alternative minimum tax.

We do not currently pay 10% of our income in federal income taxes and I don't know if we could afford to. But when we were middle class, we paid more than 10%. Right now, it is not a matter of giving up iPhones, cable and luxuries; we don't have luxuries like that.

[galaxygirl]

I see the two parties as right wing and slightly less right wing. I grew up in a country with an actual socialist party, they are nothing like Obama. And liberal in my country means right wing, usually for the wealthy.

[emmiedahl]

I see the two parties as: rich people who pretend to care about others and rich people who don't even try.

If given a choice, I will take A, but it's a sucky decision.

I would love to see someone really revolutionary come in. I think we need a real leftist in the mix, just to frame the conversation and spark debate. Obama is not a socialist. He is not politically left. He is moderate, maybe moderate-right. Adding an actual socialist party would give a better perspective.

eta: anyone else remember Southpark's episode where they have to vote for either a douche or a turd sandwich?

[Boogalou]

My favorite Daily Show line is still his quip that the American equivalent of the Canadian Conservative Party is "Gay Nader Fans for Peace".

People who know me online get confused when I say that I vote Conservative. They get even more confused when I mention that I'm anti-death penalty, radically pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro immigration, pro multiculturalism, pro universal healthcare, and pro year-long parental leave with government benefits that can be shared by both mother and father.

[Crackedeggs]

Now I admit that I may be really, really, really ignorant about this.

This is what I thought:

I presently pay about 25% of my income in taxes as a single chick. But if Warren Buffet was paying a decent percentage of his taxes instead of getting to avoid them through rich-people tax loopholes, then that percentage could dip down into single digits.

I welcome being told I am a total idiot when it comes to this. Just know that my heart was in the right place - I wanted some tax changes that would force the rich to actually pay taxes I don't think they presently pay, NOT to play additional tax burden on the middle class or poor.

[JesusFightClub]

This is interesting. The US has always looked really right wing to me, but right wing attitudes seem to be going off the charts. I cannot believe some of the things some politicians you have are advocating. Santorum? I have told comrades what he has said and got "Aye, right, very funny..." until they pick up a newspaper, flip to the foreign news section, and go "OH SHIT".

I really like Americans in general (we do the cynical, you do the warm hearted and enthusiastic and personal) and worry about this development. When I heard for the first time many Americans considered Obama as a Marxist, I burst out laughing. Surely only a joke. I've been a Marxist for over ten years and he is not. Knowing Marxists doesn't make you one any more than speaking to Michelle Duggar would make you Quiverful.

Crackedeggs, for grassroots union organisation, don't give up yet! It is very tough navigating through the minefield of antiunion laws, as Meda said. But we are working on that in the UK and I know US comrades are too. Even if we look weak now, we can yet be strong.

[m0drnmoonlight]

I really hope I make sense with this - it's stream of consciousness writing as I come up with it, so if anyone's confused, I'll clarify what I said! And huge apologies in advance for the length.

It's good to see that I'm not the only one who feels this way! I was all excited to vote for Obama in 2008, after eight years of crap with Dubya, and I was proud when I pwned a crazy conservative in my college history class when she started to whine to us about how Obama was a snobby elitist. But now...I'm just jaded and I don't know who the hell to believe anymore.

I graduated college three years ago this month. I still don't have a full-time job and up until last year, I was working retail. I'm now working a part-time job in my field, working the same part-time library job I've had since I was 15, and I still live at home. My retail job, which I hated with a burning passion, disappeared last year when the company I worked for went bankrupt and folded (I think everyone knows which one that is, and my rant about that company is another story for another day heh). Until the federal (and state) health care reform passed and I was put back on my parents' healthcare plan, I was paying a constantly rising monthly premium for my own health care, and it bled me dry. I have almost no savings now; even if I did get a job and wanted to move out, there's no way I could afford it.

And I can't tell you the blinding RAGE I feel when I see a news article or op-ed or anything written by some angry conservative calling people in my position lazy and unmotivated and perfectly ok with leeching off their parents. Or Herman Cain saying that it must be my mother's fault that she's on unemployment now because he company she worked for closed and laid off thousands of people nationwide. It makes me furious. There seems to be such a movement of "you don't have anything? Screw you, I'm comfortable in my life and I could give two shits about you."

I hate living at home and I want to be on my own with my own job. But you know what? I think we're all fucked. This whole freakin nation - we're fucked. And the politicians are too busy making those in the other party look bad to give a shit because they're all rich and wealthy and the economy going down the tubes doesn't affect them.

I kind of latched onto the Occupy Movement because all the people I know who are involved with it are in the same boat as me and they're as frustrated and angry as I am. I defriended some people on facebook when they started calling the Occupy Movement nothing but stupid hippies with no jobs and no brains and no idea what they want. One even went so far as to say they should all be killed and I defriended him the instant I saw that. I haven't been to any of the rallies, but I have donated and I've read their demands and I know how they all feel. Which is more than I could say for our political leaders, because I can only think of a few who have even acknowledged them. And sadly, this could just be my pessimism showing, but I think any real true liberal/socialist candidate for any office would just be written off as a stupid hippie by the majority and would never be taken seriously :(

I voted for Obama last time and I won't write him off as a failure right away; he has done some stuff and he did enter office with a huge mess left by Dubya. I'll even acknowledge he has the additional problem of his hands being tied by a Republican Congress who seem hellbent on rejecting EVERYTHING with a Democrat's name on it just to make Obama look bad so they can try swooping in this year to look like heroes to the sheep that follow them. They really are the party of NO, aren't they? Kantor threatening to reject federal aid for Hurricane Irene last year floored me, especially because I live in an area that was hard-hit and I couldn't believe someone would have the gall to do that. I do feel like he's a little spineless though; it's like he's afraid of pissing off too much people. Signing that defense act at the end of December shocked me, especially when he said he had reservations, but still signed it anyway. If you have reservations, what the hell are you doing signing it?!??!

When I was in college, I wrote a paper on the rise of conservatism in the 70s and I know it's not the same exact situation, but I'm trying to figure out if there's any parallels that could be drawn. A lot of that could be tied to the rejection of how society changed so drastically in the 60s, and I can see a bit of that now too. Look at the gallery of idiots the Republicans have offered up as candidates and you'll see how they're reaching to their base, promising a return to the ~Good Ol' Days~ by legislating and legislating to make gays and abortion and women's rights go bye-bye. The thing is, like some of you have said, the Democrats haven't really jumped up and presented their side. I know Obama only just started getting his campaign going, but I still feel like there isn't anyone being really vocal and outraged about all this, and standing up for everything that's on the line here. Pundits are doing it, citizens are certainly doing it, but why aren't our leaders?

Yikes. I really really rambled on here! Sorry guys :( I agree with all of you and I wanted to share my own take on it. Sorry again for the length!

[Crackedeggs]

I got myself in so much shit when I told my Tea Partier friends that the Occupy movement was born of the same root frustrations - that of not having enough. Tea partiers get so self righteous when they say how they always cleaned up after themselves, but I would say I'd love to see what tea party camps would look like if they stayed for weeks/months.

On the other hand, my Occupier supporting sister thinks I'm crazy to say that both movements stem from the same root.. once again, it's that whole fingers in the ears " la la la I can't hear you so you didn't talk" thing. Makes me nuts.

[FuManchu]

I watching The Iron Lady today and there was a line in it where Thatcher (well, Meryl Streep) praises America as being a country full of people who look to the future instead of being tied to the past. But watching the Republican candidates it sometimes seems as if they're playing a competitive game of "Guess what the Founding Fathers would do in this situation", which is absurd when you consider all the differences between now and then.

[m0drnmoonlight]

I got myself in so much shit when I told my Tea Partier friends that the Occupy movement was born of the same root frustrations - that of not having enough. Tea partiers get so self righteous when they say how they always cleaned up after themselves, but I would say I'd love to see what tea party camps would look like if they stayed for weeks/months.

On the other hand, my Occupier supporting sister thinks I'm crazy to say that both movements stem from the same root.. once again, it's that whole fingers in the ears " la la la I can't hear you so you didn't talk" thing. Makes me nuts.

[FakePigtails]

I seriously saw someone ask on facebook how a personhood law is theocratic . . . enough said. Put me squarely into the scared shitless of my fellow citizens and where they want to take this country camp.

[m0drnmoonlight]

I watching The Iron Lady today and there was a line in it where Thatcher (well, Meryl Streep) praises America as being a country full of people who look to the future instead of being tied to the past. But watching the Republican candidates it sometimes seems as if they're playing a competitive game of "Guess what the Founding Fathers would do in this situation", which is absurd when you consider all the differences between now and then.

[Austin]

I don't believe it's fair to draw no distinction or almost no distinction between the President and the republicans. If we look back at where we were in October of 2008, when this economy was hemorrhaging jobs at the rate of 750,000 a month, things have changed a lot. More jobs were created in 2011 than in all four years of GWB's second term.

Obama is not a liberal and didn't run as a liberal. A true liberal could probably not win (and this is true of wingnut like Santorum, too, thankfully) because neither party's base is big enough to vote their candidate into office. The reality is that the candidates need to attract a large percentage of independents (and during a first term, at least, keep them attracted or at least not alienate them completely). I was not under the delusion that I had voted for a liberal.

As far as health care, I would encourage folks to research of history of medicare, which is basically single payer health insurance for seniors. Medicare didn't happen in one fell swoop, but rather over decades. I consider the ACA a starting point. No, it's not what I wanted because I wanted single-payer, but I also understood that was pretty unrealistic. Also, I don't believe people have a great grasp on what the ACA is doing and will do for the American people. I have posted this timeline before, as I find it helpful:

http://www.healthcare.gov/law/timeline/

Do I think Obama has made mistakes? Absolutely, and I have my own disappointments (as I'm sure I would with any President) but I still see a stark difference between what he wants to accomplish for this country and what his opponents do. Obama's biggest mistake, in my view, is seeming to believe in the decency of his opponents and presuming that they would want to work together to do some good things for the American people. Instead, especially with the influx of the Tea Party representatives in 2010, it has been obstructionism all the way. I swear, the man could create a cure for all cancer and they would block its use simply because it was he who created it. He has begun to run a little more roughshod over them, and it is definitely overdue.

One thing I know for sure is that if democrats don't get over their disappointment over lack of quick fixes or the lack of understanding that a first term is nearly always governed far differently than a second term (or else there is no second term), we will have one of these clowns in the GOP in the White House. And if we're unhappy with Obama, I can't imagine how miserable we'll be then.

And that's not even counting the Supreme Court appointments a GOPer could make. If for no other reason than that: if that doesn't strike fear in our hearts and cause us to conjure up a little excitment for Obama, then we're going to get the society we deserve and we're not going to like it one bit.

[ElphabaGalinda]

So, what makes one 'conservative' in Canada?

I know I can just google that, but I think an in-person explanation will be more succinct and accurate.

[meda]

Austin, as an already self identified cranky leftist, the issue for me is not that I am particularly annoyed at the president. He is what he is and I agree with many of the things he accomplished, including the healthcare law. I would argue that the healthcare law was passed mostly due to the heavy lifting of Democrats and a few Republicans in congress, many of whom paid a huge political price for their support of healthcare reform. Obama's whitehouse was conspicuous by it's absence during that fight.

I am angry about the continuing rightward drift of the political narrative. I think part of that is caused by tone deaf wealthy Democrats in positions of power who have no idea how to frame an issue in away that resonates with the majority of voters. How the hell the party of my working class parents lose the ability to connect with the working class? There are many people in this country who are now against the very government programs that keep those same people fed, housed and educated. WTF?

I think my party has lost it's way. I don't blame Republicans, I blame my party's inability to identify what it's for and effectively articulate it. I think Obama will be relected, I hope this campaign will allow him to articulate a plan which he will then actually attempt to implement with some political skill.

[m0drnmoonlight]

Do I think Obama has made mistakes? Absolutely, and I have my own disappointments (as I'm sure I would with any President) but I still see a stark difference between what he wants to accomplish for this country and what his opponents do. Obama's biggest mistake, in my view, is seeming to believe in the decency of his opponents and presuming that they would want to work together to do some good things for the American people. Instead, especially with the influx of the Tea Party representatives in 2010, it has been obstructionism all the way. I swear, the man could create a cure for all cancer and they would block its use simply because it was he who created it. He has begun to run a little more roughshod over them, and it is definitely overdue.

One thing I know for sure is that if democrats don't get over their disappointment over lack of quick fixes or the lack of understanding that a first term is nearly always governed far differently than a second term (or else there is no second term), we will have one of these clowns in the GOP in the White House. And if we're unhappy with Obama, I can't imagine how miserable we'll be then.

And that's not even counting the Supreme Court appointments a GOPer could make. If for no other reason than that: if that doesn't strike fear in our hearts and cause us to conjure up a little excitment for Obama, then we're going to get the society we deserve and we're not going to like it one bit.

[AnnieC 305]

I know this cranky, far-left Atheist and her husband are planning to emigrate north as soon as he's out of school. Vancouver here we come.

What's really sad is that my husband is a veteran. He put his life on the line for a country that has become so hostile toward people with his beliefs that he is no longer comfortable speaking out in public. When they found out that we go to the liberal UU church, when we do go, and that he voted Obama the local American Legion revoked our memberships.

I hope Canada will be home for us, I truly do. This isn't anymore.

[emmiedahl]

Do I think Obama has made mistakes? Absolutely, and I have my own disappointments (as I'm sure I would with any President) but I still see a stark difference between what he wants to accomplish for this country and what his opponents do. Obama's biggest mistake, in my view, is seeming to believe in the decency of his opponents and presuming that they would want to work together to do some good things for the American people. Instead, especially with the influx of the Tea Party representatives in 2010, it has been obstructionism all the way. I swear, the man could create a cure for all cancer and they would block its use simply because it was he who created it. He has begun to run a little more roughshod over them, and it is definitely overdue.

[deelaem]

I know this cranky, far-left Atheist and her husband are planning to emigrate north as soon as he's out of school. Vancouver here we come.

What's really sad is that my husband is a veteran. He put his life on the line for a country that has become so hostile toward people with his beliefs that he is no longer comfortable speaking out in public. When they found out that we go to the liberal UU church, when we do go, and that he voted Obama the local American Legion revoked our memberships.

I hope Canada will be home for us, I truly do. This isn't anymore.

[Austin]

SERIOUSLY? So I guess constitutional rights to freedom of religion and the right to vote privately mean nothing to the fuckin' American Legion? I would say tell your local newspaper this story, but they're likely conservative too. This is so wrong. Don't blame you for wanting to emigrate.

[Kelya]

When I was seven years old there was a restaurant that had "Republicans" and "Democrats" and "Independents" as signs in the waiting room, as jokes. I had no idea (I still thought a presidential race involved running through a maze!) and asked my mom the differences and my mom said "Republicans are for rich people, Democrats are for poor people." Oversimplification for a little kid, yes, but it really rang true to me and it hurts and confuses me to see it not be true now. Sure, I feel like Democrats are still better for the poor (of which I am one), but they're only the lesser of two bad choices. Until we have actual real overhaul its all just drops in a bucket.

Just to ditto other posters: abolishing public schools, making birth control illegal, getting rid of the minimum wage, destroying unions...the fact that any of these things are seriously put up as valid actions is insane and just shows the wingnuttery going out of control.

ETA: I mentioned this in another thread, but I obtained my dual citizenship because of this upcoming election. I want a way to get out incase the USA goes all Atwood on us. I'd like to say I'd stay and work from the inside, but if wouldn't be safe and I'd feel it necessary to leave. :/

[Boogalou]

I will admit to not being too knowledgable on the specifics...but one thing a 'conservative' is NOT in Canada is someone anti-gay marriage, anti-choice, or against publicly funded health care. At least not openly, and they don't make that their main platform or they'd never get elected. Like take Stephen Harper, the prime minister and a conservative...he did oppose gay marriage, but now that we've had it for a few years as federally legal he doesn't really mention it anymore because most Canadians take it as a given. The conservative party here may not support everything pro choice, but they aren't adding any crazy laws to make it nearly impossible like in the states. I have a friend who had an abortion recently and she didn't pay a thing, she had it at a hospital, there were no protesters, no second appointments, or guilt inducing lectures. Just treated it like the medical procedure it was. Abortion isn't really an issue in the major Canadian political landscape. Stephen Harper, no matter what he may personally believe, has officially stated that the abortion debate has no place in Parliament.

Now as for what it IS...i just went on a bit on what it isn't, because i find a lot of those things crazy and it's only on FJ that I learned these things really happen in the states. I will admit that I know very little, even though I have voted in 2 federal elections..I remember in the last election their platform involved lower taxes to create jobs, and there was more support for seniors and their caregivers.

To be honest, Canadian politics bore me, though I try very hard to be engaged. I am often much more interested in provincial elections because they have to do with education and healthcare. I voted Liberal for the province only because they were lowering tuition, which I am happy they have now done.

[BayLee_10]

Politics in the USA have become totally scary. I bought a bumper sticker that says, "Liberal Christian...Religion Without The Hate." Sadly I admit I was afraid to put it on my van. Who needs their vehicle scratched up or worse?

Unfortunately for Obama he thought he was dealing with rational people instead of bat shit crazy idiots. I will be voting for Obama again and hope he's a great deal less naive than he was. Sure glad I found Free Jinger!!