I rant about lying and Christian raves

[sugaree]

I suppose this rant is is only tangibly related to fundamentalism, and I don't expect to get much of a response, but I read something that made me so annoyed I need to vent, and this is a good place to do so. You see, I hate lying. I'm cool with white lies or lies of omission or telling the Nazis that you specifically don't have 19 Jews hiding in your attic, nein sir, but blatant lying for the sake of manipulation just fills with me with rage.

So, the "Gems and Gold Dust" thread inspired me to Google "Christian raves," and thus I stumbled upon this article: christianitytoday.com/iyf/truelifestories/ithappenedtome/5.39.html?start=2 It's a standard stumbled/sinned/saved how-I-came-to-Jesus tale: boy grows up Christian, boy falls away into drugs and Wicca, boy goes to yet another rave which--sike!--is actually a Christian rave, and there is finds grace and redemption. So far so good.

This guy, Daniel Markey, said that prior to his becoming a prodigal son, he used drugs, and that he spun records and sold drugs at raves (and also practiced Wicca, but that really seems like a complete afterthought in the story). So far so good. I have no reason to disbelieve this.

But he goes on

I dealt mostly Ecstasy, LSD and Special K (animal tranquilizers that bring a brief high).

Some friends and I controlled about 40 percent of the drug profits in Western Michigan. In a good week, I made as much as $10,000—but I blew most of it on my own drug habit.

Okay, all that I know about large-scale drug trading I learned from watching "The Wire" and "American Gangster," but I feel confident enough to say that

1) There is no reliable way for a drug dealer to accurately track his market share. There is no New York Drug Exchange info printed daily in the Drug Street Journal. So this 40% number was pulled completely out of his baggy raver pants.

2) No way do Ecstasy, LSD, and Special K, the latter obscure enough so that he felt the need to define it for his audience, make up 40% of the drug trade of any region. What, is Western Michigan some magical protected place in which meth has not gained a foothold? Great, I wanna live there! No, I imagine that marijuana, meth, cocaine, and even heroin would be more financially lucrative. Not that someone could not make money slinging Ecstasy, LSD, and Special K, just that those drugs would not make up 40% of any market. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that marijuana alone made up more than 40% of the market.

3) Trace drugs back to their source, and eventually you will find organizations. Mafias. Cartels. Biker gangs. The Crips and the Bloods and the Latin Kings and the Vice-Lords. All of whom would be very interested in the fact that Daniel Markey "and his friends" had secured 40% of Western Michigan for their own personal benefit and were individually raking in $10,000 a week. Either by "friends" Daniel meant the Hell's Angels and the Russian Mafia, or he was dipping into his own stash, and it was good enough to give him delusions of grandeur.

So, Daniel goes to this rave, which happens to be a Christian event.

As soon as we walked in, I knew something was different: There wasn't any smoke in the air. And nobody looked high. The music was the same, and people were dancing, but there was a tangible difference in the atmosphere. There was a lightness, a joyful feeling.

I noticed the DJ list included some Christian bands. I thought, This must be a Christian rave, but I've never heard of a Christian rave. Then I thought, Well, I've still got to make some money. So I tried to sell some drugs.

I didn't have much luck; most people turned me down. I was starting to get uncomfortable. But I was like, I'm going to try one more person. So I walked up to this girl and asked her if she needed any drugs.

This part might be true. But it's in conflict with the part that says Daniel had a 40% market share and pulled $10,000/wk. Guys who make that much money are not the guys out at the show or on the corner, slinging dime bags and single pills, talking to strangers and taking all that risk. No, those guys aren't taking home much more than minimum wage. The real money-makers are behind the scenes, dealing in bulk, and pulling the strings.

And also, now that I think about it, street dealers usually don't come out and say "Excuse me, do you need any drugs?" There's usually a little bit of finesse.

So, what I'm getting at with all this ranting here is why? Why take a perfectly cromulent I-once-was-lost/but-now-am-found tale and crap it up with these blatant exaggerations and lies? Why wasn't it good enough to be a small-time-dealer led to Jesus?

I just think that if you can't be honest and tell the truth about your conversion, it tarnishes your conversion. Own up to who you. Own your past. Embrace what you have done, even if you have to admit you weren't the biggest badass to ever stomp around Western Michigan.

[emmiedahl]

Ugh, it is called 'lying for the Lord'. It is the reason that Jews for Jesus pretend to be Jews (when they are not) and the Duggars pretend that they are financially independent and don't beat their babies.

I used to hear testimonies from people who were lured into the Dark Arts by Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah fucking right. Ridiculous.

[Witsec7]

I've had slightly more experience with folks who took LSD and found god. Two became rather well known xtian film makers.

Special K is a total black market pharmaceutical. To the best of my knowledge and experience it comes from veterinarians, its not synthesized in small labs or kitchens. My own person research proved it makes one drool and often have crossed eyes for hours. It is an anesthetic used with animals. It is not a 'love' drug like x and really incompatible with my own experiences at raves.

LSD has a very small market share in terms of drugs sold per capita regardless of state. I would say if someone were making money on drugs in MI it would be coke and meth, maybe pot if you were moving weight (pounds not 1/8 oz).

[dairyfreelife]

I used to hear testimonies from people who were lured into the Dark Arts by Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah fucking right. Ridiculous.

I've heard this too. Just like Harry Potter lures children into witchcraft. A former witch says it so. It lures children from godly ways into wiccan.

[SunnyAndrsn]

Ugh, it is called 'lying for the Lord'. It is the reason that Jews for Jesus pretend to be Jews (when they are not) and the Duggars pretend that they are financially independent and don't beat their babies.

I used to hear testimonies from people who were lured into the Dark Arts by Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah fucking right. Ridiculous.

My Christian husband is in The Man Cave right now, with his mix of friends, playing D&D. Perhaps tonight is some other role playing game, as I haven't been following what they've been doing lately. Twice a month the friends descend upon our house like a plague of locusts. Most of the guys are single, and would blend into the crowd at Comic-Con without a problem. Several are actually living with their mothers.

Yeah, I married the head vampire. Or in this case, the head nerd, aka the Dungeon Master aka the High & Mighty, Evil, Chaotic Dungeon Master. The basement smells like sweaty middle aged men, Chinese food, feet, farts, and junk food.

I second the calling of Shenanigans on those who were lured into the Dark Arts. No chicken blood or baby sacrifices going on at this house.

[pixydust]

I second the calling of Shenanigans on those who were lured into the Dark Arts. No chicken blood or baby sacrifices going on at this house.

But my cousin's sister's baby-daddy knows a guy who works with someone who heard about the chicken blood! :shifty:

[susanmr5]

I'm finding it amusing as well that this guy claims he's making all that money from those 3 particular drugs and being the one walking up to people with the "wannna buy drugs?" line.

1. No dealer, small or otherwise, in their right mind just walks up to someone (rave or not) and asks, "Do you want to buy some drugs." That's how you get caught by undercover cops in 2 seconds or less. There's at least a lead in conversation with some sort of innuendo.

2. People selling drugs on the street, at parties, etc usually are not making a living off of it. It's supplemental income or a way to fund their own partying. The only people making decent money are those who buy large quantities, break it up, and sell it to people they know/trust.

3. At least around here those 3 drugs are considered party drugs and are not what is going to be bringing in large amounts of money, unless you are the person buying/selling in bulk mentioned in #2. Unless you're in a large city it's highly unlikely that you specialize in those. More probable is that you sell weed/coke/meth with something like X, LSD, Xanax, Mescalin, etc on the side. Maybe things are different in Michigan, but I doubt it.

If he was selling those specific drugs, in that way, and making as much money as he claims or "controlling the market" of the area I'd say he's pretty damn lucky.

[DistantStar]

I would love to know how somebody would know the name of any "Christian bands" if they weren't already running in those circles. I sure don't know any. You could shove a list of them under my nose and I wouldn't know they were "Christian bands" unless you told me.

Edit: The quotation marks are not meant as an insult, but because there is an obvious difference between bands whose members are Christian, and bands whose genre is "Christian."

[emmiedahl]

I agree, the bands have names that are not recognizably Christian. The whole story reeks of epic lie.

[libmomj]

Besides, if he was "spinning records" and selling to this huge market at raves, there is no way he wouldn't know the local producers/promoters and just happen to show up at a Christian rave. It's not like western Michigan has a huge party scene.

[sugaree]

Good points, all! Especially the last point: yeah, of course if he were in the scene he'd be interested in who was throwing these things, who was going to go. Who was spinning!

I thought maybe it was a basically true story with massive exaggerations. Now I'm thinking it's tipping over into more false than true.

[Vex]

I'm sorry, but can someone elaborate on this 'lying for the lord' BS?

How do they justify this? The bible says that you shouldn't lie. Not that white lies are okay. Not that lying is okay if it leads people to God. Not that the end justifies the means.

I hate these people who just pull shit out of their ass and claim it's godly, when there is nothing in the bible to back their claims - or worse, the bible blatantly says you shouldn't do whatever they're doing. It's like ZsuZsu saying judging others is okay, because the bible mentions judgment X amount of times and less than half of those times say you shouldn't do it. Or that street preacher's wife who says that it's okay for her husband to preach on street corners (even though the bible says not to) because Jesus was just talking about hypocrites, who were preaching to get attention rather than to sincerely minister to others.

[godlytomatosoup]

What I want to know: about his anger and his struggle with God, and with his adoptive parents. Somewhere in there is a real story about how miserable he's been and why, and all the people (Christians included) who've let him down, and (hopefully) what he's learned and how he came to terms with it. And this isn't academic for me: I am right now trying to figure out whether there's a place for the Christian God in my life, and part of that is working out theodicy, and some real stories of how people found that place would be really helpful.

But he can't simultaneously talk about that and talk about how every single Christian group he met was inspiring and gave him a deep sense of inner peace before he was so terribly sinful that he left them again to go sell drugs and buy bad checks and do Wicca. (When the only explanation for a person's behaviour is 'they were sinful', you know it's either a Chick tract or a conversion experience.)

The other sign of a bad story: he doesn't say what was so attractive about drugs, bad checks, and Wicca. The closest he gets is saying that he was a Wiccan because he wanted 'something spiritual' even though he 'knew it was wrong'.

I'm not just frustrated because he's blatantly lying out his ass, I'm frustrated because now I want to know the real truth. And I'm wondering whether he knows it himself, or whether this is just going to be another waystation playing bass in a praise group before he falls back into drugs.

[dairyfreelife]

What I want to know: about his anger and his struggle with God, and with his adoptive parents. Somewhere in there is a real story about how miserable he's been and why, and all the people (Christians included) who've let him down, and (hopefully) what he's learned and how he came to terms with it. And this isn't academic for me: I am right now trying to figure out whether there's a place for the Christian God in my life, and part of that is working out theodicy, and some real stories of how people found that place would be really helpful.

But he can't simultaneously talk about that and talk about how every single Christian group he met was inspiring and gave him a deep sense of inner peace before he was so terribly sinful that he left them again to go sell drugs and buy bad checks and do Wicca. (When the only explanation for a person's behaviour is 'they were sinful', you know it's either a Chick tract or a conversion experience.)

The other sign of a bad story: he doesn't say what was so attractive about drugs, bad checks, and Wicca. The closest he gets is saying that he was a Wiccan because he wanted 'something spiritual' even though he 'knew it was wrong'.

I'm not just frustrated because he's blatantly lying out his ass, I'm frustrated because now I want to know the real truth. And I'm wondering whether he knows it himself, or whether this is just going to be another waystation playing bass in a praise group before he falls back into drugs.

This. It's one thing that annoys when people obsess about being saved and that alone. Yes, great, but what happens after that? Life is not instantly changed and the issues a person had before are still there. There's an incentive to change, yes, but it still takes work. If he does not learn what might have gotten him into the position before with drug using and selling and money problems, he will likely end up in a similar position again.