Fundies and the military

[YPestis]

I was watching a military drama and the question of how fundies view the military popped up in my head.

We know that many of these fundies are very rah-rah-rah (disturbingly so) about America. They take American exceptionalism to an....exceptional level. And we all know how fundies feel about females / gays in the military.

However, has any of our fundie families written specifically about the subject of having females and gays in the military? About placing themselves where their manly men may have to take orders from wimmenfolks? Or eat/sleep/live in close proximity with The Gays?

I'm fascinated by what fundie parents think the solution is for a patriotic, Christian, military minded young man is in these types of situations. Also, how do they feel about those young ladies over in Afghanistan fighting a war that their own sons have not felt "called" to do? Hmmm.....

[JesusFightClub]

I actually know someone who joined the military so women could give him orders. On a careers day he saw a female corporal (I think) ordering some male soldiers around and "It was REALLY hot, know what I mean?" He promptly signed up in the hopes the same thing would happen to him. :lol:

I have seen fundies address this and it's usually seen as a sign of the general wickedness of the US that women are permitted to join the military (strangely though they seem not to apply this to Israel). And then of course we haven't had a proper manlyman he-military since WWII so fundy sons probably shouldn't be joining up anyway. As you say now there are WIMMINZ and GAYZ it has been polluted and touching it (erm) would leave them defiled.

On the subject of the women serving at the moment, they usually are not complimentary. Their issues range from female incompetence to the likelihood of rape to pregnancy to it in some way destabilising the men to have women serving alongside them and making the army all weak and womanly and generally shite. I have not seen a "Thank you for your service" given to women in the military from any of them. Still, it's not like women can ever do anything right for a fundie.

[camdendayton]

I tend to think some of the spawn of my fav patriarchs would make good cannon fodder. The patriarchs themselves, *excellent* cannon fodder. Esp Douggie. My ex's dad always said they should draft the old men that want to go to war!

[AmongThem]

While they talk plenty about how much they love America and how wonderful the military men who have served before WERE, they rarely talk about the current men in the military. Just look at most of the stuff Doug Phillips and Scott Brown say/showecase. I don't think I've ever seen them honor a CURRENT military person.

While there are quite a few former homeschoolers in the military, they aren't the extremist, like phillips and brown's crowd. Philips and Brown, and their following have specifically said its a SIN to serve because they'd be submitting to an ungodly leader (Bush previously, now Obama), and that its also unbiblical for women and gays to be in the military, etc.

Their insanity knows no bounds. It would be good for some of their BOYS to join the military....actually it wouldn't because then it would actually teach them how to fight and cause serious damage. :)

[maybeizfundie]

Not all fundies are even nationalistic though. The Charity group (the "Remnant") was mentioned lately on NLQ and as far as I know they take a hardline anabaptist view of politics and military. IOW, zero involvement.

They might well consider women and gays serving in the military to be a corruption of the natural order of things, but it's not quite such a hot-button since they consider the whole thing out of bounds for Christians anyway.

[bananacat]

Well, they do call their kids arrows. I think they are just trying to get their numbers up because they have this grand but unrealistic idea that they'll form their own militia with their dozens of sons as cannon fodder, and they'll use this militia against the imaginary threat of the Democrats coming in to their houses and forcibly taking away their guns making their property have abortions.

[Olivia]

My old fundie-lite church when I was in HS had a big active-duty military component and the pastor and his wife were both former military (they'd had very interesting lives before they became Christians and then went into the ministry... my favorite kinds of chuch leaders, the kinds who haven't lived an insular life in the church). So it was a big surprise to me when my mom changed churchs and in the new one, people were concerned about my decision to join the military and questioned whether it was really "of God". But I never really asked why, as I did not really give a damn. Sorry! :)

The military often leans Christian - enough to really irk the pagans and atheists I'm friends with - but not nearly enough for the hardcore fundies. My theory is they could not deal with not being speshul anymore, and being underneath or on an even keel with others, as opposed to flaunting their alleged God-given superiority. But, since I think they would tend to be toxic leaders, I'm happy to see them sitting on their duffs just paying lip service to "God and country".

[IReallyAmHopewell]

As far as I know it's only Gothard who says they shouldn't serve because they COULD be under unGodly commanders. That's why he has ALERT--they can play soldier for a few years. There are many, many, many otherwise like-minded people in the military who just don't believe the umbrella of authority line. The Air Force in particular has had problems people overstepping the line on forcing their faith and, often themselves, on uninterested people.

[gingernut]

This is a point of contention with me. These fundies we know will wave the flag and they will not send their sons into the military. Fundie lite churches, yes, they often will, but not the patriarchal Scott Browns, Dougie, etc. They see the military as serving an evil government and full of ungodly men and women. I know this has gotten worse with the revoking of "don't ask, don't tell". Interestingly, when Bush was president I still saw alot of flag waving, even if they wouldn't let their kids go into the military, but once Obama got elected, the military became more like Hitler's SS to them. They see it as the evil that will eventually take over. They talk about our military bases being used as concentration camps to hold the Christians once martial law goes into effect, etc. Our soldiers, they say, are being trained to be used against our own populace.

Also, for awhile the word was that the Air Force was "okay". More Christians there and less evil than the Army or the Marine Corps.

[GolightlyGrrl]

The only fundie I can think of who has any military service is Michelle from Coffee Catholic. The rest are just a bunch of posers who couldn't handle the rigors of basic training.

[antifundie]

Some of the hardline reconstructionists also don't join because they see the military as fighting "unjust" wars. When I was going to a Dominionist church, there was a lot of talk about how "evil" it was that US military would serve under the command of the UN. Somehow that was "ungodly" because (according to them) it was un-Constitutional. Back when I was hearing about this, in was in the context of serving in Haiti and Bosnia. There was a homeschool kid who refused to "wear the blue helmet/beret" and was looked at as a hero.

Here's a link about him:

http://www.jefflindsay.com/MichaelNew.shtml

So, Constitution=Jesus. And serving the UN=Satan. The UN (at least as I learned about it) was basically the tool of the Antichrist, and the entity that would bring about the New World Order. Yeah.

Looks like the guy grew up to be SUPER conservative, if this is in fact the same guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_New

[Kaylee]

The only fundies I know of who are military or prior service are all women who were in the military previously. It may just be because I know more women, but how weird is that? (Maybe because a lot of the men here go straight into Bible college or self-employment in their late teens or early 20s, while a lot of the women seem to convert a little later in life). There are two women here locally who are headcovering, homeschooling, patriarchial, and would fit most people's definition of fundie, one was in the Army as a diesel mechanic and the other was a Marine.

I also know one women who is pretty hardcore IFB and a homeschooling mom of 6 who was in the Army Reserve, but got out once her enlistment was up after the first time she had to go overseas and leave her family. She's against women in the military now because of that.

[Olivia]

I also know one women who is pretty hardcore IFB and a homeschooling mom of 6 who was in the Army Reserve, but got out once her enlistment was up after the first time she had to go overseas and leave her family. She's against women in the military now because of that.

Very logical. Of course since it didn't work for her family, no woman should be allowed to even join.

I mean, that's why I'm getting out -- I don't want to leave my babies once I have them for six months or a year at a time -- but it's been just peachy serving my country during my "childless season".

[AnnieC 305]

Of course part of the problem is that you need a high school diploma. And SOTDRT does not count.

A GED does, but that means you actually have to pass for one...

[emmiedahl]

Having a GED instead of a diploma can really hurt your military career over the long term. I've known homeschoolers that ran into that problem.

Maybe that is why we don't see a lot of fundies in the military. They are really only qualified to be cannon fodder, and who wants that? The costumes aren't nice enough.

[BlondeAgent007]

I wonder why more fundies aren't in the military. It seems they like to be bossed about by superiors (parents, etc). I would think parents would find this appealing. My fiance is in the air force and he met a guy who is in military prison, his crime being adultery. For six months. From what I hear military prison is 394839 times worse than high security prison. They also tend to work around christian holidays and beliefs. You may be of any religion to be in the military, but it may be hard for a strictly kosher jew to find acceptable food, for instance.

Then again, military bases tend to have a plethora of scandalous joints around them - bars, stripclubs, casinos - none of which fall into the fundie idea of a good time. Fiance is allowed to go to all - we have a look don't touch policy. But the military has defrauded many of his 18 yr old virginal friends. So I donno... just wanted to post.

[emmiedahl]

Heh. You can get jail time for that in the AF? My first husband was a captain in the AF and he had an affair that ended up with me and my oldest child being abandoned while he pursued the girl in another state. Everyone knew about it; it was every bit the scandal that you would imagine it to be. Obviously they apply that rule selectively.

[BlondeAgent007]

yep... although the fact that he went AWOL during it probably helped... LOL... I just liked the fact that somebody could go to jail with that as a charge. It was probably a salt in the wound charge but it was still awesome.

[HoneyBunny]

I've done some informal research on this subject (as a long time military wife who's spent lots of time in the Mecca of fundie-ism, Colorado Springs). Look at any car that runs a red light or cuts someone off in traffic. Chances are they'll have three things in common: a "W" sticker, a fish sticker and a Support Our Troops magnet. Unfortunately, their beloved Republican lawmakers are generally the ones who want to stick it to our current vets by cutting their benefits in the interest of balancing the budget.

Can you imagine Josh Duggar in basic training? Do you suppose his drill sergeant would understand that Duggars are not morning people? How about the Maxwells need for early morning and late evening 'personal time with the Lord'? Not that soldiers don't pray- the smart ones know they'd better pray to save their own ass and those of their brother and sister soldiers before they rush into an enemy combatant's home in the middle of the night. It's just that they pray without making a public demonstration of it, and without photographing it and posting it on a website.

There are so many good and brave and spiritual people in the military, but damn few of them are fundies.

[Hane]

There are so many good and brave and spiritual people in the military, but damn few of them are fundies.

But I've read about problems with evangelical Christian chaplains more or less co-opting religion in some US military venues: they believe it's their duty as Christians to evangelize and try to convert. And they get a free pass, where chaplains of other religious persuasions don't.

[MailMan]

Having a GED instead of a diploma can really hurt your military career over the long term. I've known homeschoolers that ran into that problem.

Maybe that is why we don't see a lot of fundies in the military. They are really only qualified to be cannon fodder, and who wants that? The costumes aren't nice enough.

I hadn't thought of this issue until my oldest son went to join the AF. I found out that Home Schooled recruits had a higher washout rate. It looked like it was going to be an issue until the recruiter saw that my son had over a year of college on his record.

[GenerationCedarchip]

I have lots of friends/family in the military. I get the impression that there are plenty of fundie-lite types in there. However, most of the real fundies seem to be officers based on what they tell me. I personally know of some pretty hardcore fundie guys from my childhood church that went into either Army or Marines/Navy; it was not uncommon for kids in large familes there to go ROTC in order to finance college. The guys I know talk about being happy to see so many believers and how much easier it is to have a large family there.

And there is a definite anti-women-in-the-military feeling among the fundies I know. I even heard it preached in a Memorial Day sermon once when I was in high school. And not surprisingly, Dougie has a whole page dedicated to pontificating on the subject:

wwwDOTvisionforumministriesDOTorg/issues/women_in_the_military/