What Happens when a Mother works outside of the home?

[homeschoolmomma1]

So I got the Men's Manual 2 again (Got rid of it last time) This is a book that goes along with the Financial Freedom Seminar the Duggars are in love with. I rebought it for like 8 bucks (better bargan than the 100 they want for the book and DVDs) Anyway, I thought I would share with you the 2 pages titled...

What Happens When A Mother Works Outside Of The Home by Bill Gothard (this will get long)

1. She Violates Scripture

God intended for the home to be the center of a mother's world. In Titus 2:5, women are instructed to be "...discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed In 1 Timothy 5:14, younger women are instructed to "...marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully." Solomon wanrned his son that one of the evidences of an evil woman was that "...her feet abide not in her house" (proverbs 7:11)

2. She Neglects Her Children

No one can fully take the place of the mother when children are young. There is no such thing as "quality time" in a child's world. the needs of children are as urgent as they are unscheduled; and God expects a mother, to whom He has entrusted a child, to care for that child.

3. She is Unfulfilled

The only way that a woman can find identity and meaning in her life is to discover and fulfill the purposes for which God made her. Scripture establishes the fact that God made the woman to be a "help meet" (helpful companion) to her husband. (See Genesis 2:18) She will never find fulfillment by trying to copy a man's role

4. She Damages Her Marriage

When a mother tries to establish her independence by working outside her home, she deeply wounds the spirit of her marriage and the love between her and her husband. Love is strengthened when there is a realization of how much each partner needs each other. When we do not think we need God, we lose our love for Him. When a mother does not think that she needs her husband or her children, she loses her love for them.

5.She May Transfer Her Affections

When a wife works for another man, she actually displays toward him some of the attitudes of an ideal wife. During working hours she is alert to her employer's needs and desires. She is flexible. Her expectations are minimal, and she is grateful for whatever he does to make her job easier. Her grateful spirit encourages him to do even more for her. This prompts her to express more appreciation and admiration to him. Soon she beins to compare her husband unfavorably with her employer, and this comparison leads to damage in her marriage relationship.

6. She finds Herself in Two Competing Worlds

If a wife does find a jon which she enjoys outside of the home, she will suddenly find that she is in two world- one at home and one at work. Each one will make demands and give rewards. Since no one can serve two masters, she must ultimately decide which world will become her primary source for acceptance, approval, achievement, and fulfillment.

7. She suffers Distructive Pressures

When a mother assumes employment outside of the home, she subjects herself to an additional set of pressures and tentions. These produce physical and emotional stresses. Prologed exposure to these stresses is causing many women to suffer physically, psychologically, and spiritually, and to transfer these pressures to their families.

8. She Neglects Vital Home Functions

If a mother gives her time, energy, and talent to a job outside of the home, it obviously means that she is less able to fulfill the God-given functions in her home simply for lack of time. The priceless opportunities within a mother's home cannot be reclaimed once her children have grown up.

9. She Sets a Bad Example for Others

Some women may appear to function effectivelt in two worlds. By doing so, however, they provide a damaging example to other mothers who definitely cannot manage such a schedule.

10. She is Financially Unwise

Many mothers feel that they have to work outside of the home in order to make ends meet. However, a careful evaluation of the second paycheck reveals that it is an unprofitable venture. On the other hand, a woman who develops the potential funtions of her home and who practices wise buying can greatly increase the finaces of the home. The basis of "making ends meet" is not increasing income as much as it is decreasing bills by finding more efficient ways to utilize present resources.

They give The Myth of a Mother's Paycheck and it really is by adding it up what it costs for a wife to work you have a net loss not a net gain.

My reply to #10- Buy used and save the difference :)

[theologygeek]

I guess he never took the time to study Lydia's occupation and the history surrounding her trade.

[Love]

#5 is my favorite! I'm sure my boss, Amy, thinks I treat her just like I treat my husband.

And #10, while I get what he is saying (Sometimes you spend more on childcare, lunches out, coffee etc. than you actually bring home) I'm actually quite smart and am very capable of running a simple CBA. Or, also known as cost-benefit-analysis. And I make money, you asshole.

[Burris]

Making subjective claims and stating them as facts? Cherry-picking Bible verses? That's fundie SOP, and Bill Gothard is a master of it.

[darkplumaged]

Well, my mom definitely neglects vital home functions--she refuses to cook anymore, even though she's excellent at it--but I'm pretty sure she hasn't transferred her affections to her 70-something female boss. I think I'll tell her that my sister and I, both grown and married, feel neglected. She'll like that.

[Wolfie]

I think that 9 is my favorite for nonesensical. Sort of a "well you might actually be able to do it, but if you manage it well you'll entice others to also work."

[emesbe]

What a huge load of horseshit. :angry-banghead: :character-jason:

[dianapavelovna]

Or she earns money, autonomy, and a sense of self outside of motherhood.

Potato, Potahto.

[MamaJunebug]

11. She gives her parents the chance to be involved in their grandchildren's day to day lives. When Grandpa is widowed suddenly, his time w his grandchildren is a welcome thing.

12. She builds up a nice 401(k) with which she can retire ahead of schedule, permitting her to care for her dying dad, have more time w her kiddoes, and approach her very imperfect marriage w energy that actually helps improve things.

13. With her own corporate experience, she is able to advise her young adult children w wisdom far beyond "Now, be a beacon of God's love out there at Big Impersonal Corporation and allllll your hard work and selflessness will be rewarded."

A winking smiley belongs here, but the ones available don't have enough ... gleefulness to them.

[SunnyAndrsn]

I'm going to have to go ahead a disagree with Mr. Gothard on this one. Um, yeah....Thanks Mr. Unmarried man for sticking you nose where it doesn't belong.

Face it, even the Gothardites find their women lacking. There's always SOMETHING that is never quite good enough.

[themadapple]

I'd say that Bill Gothard can come and kiss my ass, but with the garbage he's spewing, the sanctity of said posterior would be grossly offended.

[VVV]

5.She May Transfer Her Affections

When a wife works for another man, she actually displays toward him some of the attitudes of an ideal wife. During working hours she is alert to her employer's needs and desires. She is flexible. Her expectations are minimal, and she is grateful for whatever he does to make her job easier. Her grateful spirit encourages him to do even more for her. This prompts her to express more appreciation and admiration to him. Soon she beins to compare her husband unfavorably with her employer, and this comparison leads to damage in her marriage relationship.

This is very far removed from my feelings about those above me at work, to put it politely.

Somebody should tell Bill Gotherd that not all working women are their family's second income. I have earned more than my husband during all but two years of our very happy 21-year marriage. If the money fairy should magically anoint my job so that my income doubled, my husband would be ecstatic. (as would I)

[Shirley MacLaine]

My mom works for a woman. Salacious.

[JesusFightClub]

This is truly a disturbing vision of a workplace. Has this Gothard wanker ever actually held down a job?

Her expectations are minimal, and she is grateful for whatever he does to make her job easier. Her grateful spirit encourages him to do even more for her. This prompts her to express more appreciation and admiration to him.

What the living fuck. I'm a trade union shop steward. This is so unlike any women's behaviour anywhere I've worked I do not have words. Women are human, newsflash! They aren't hanging around behind computer monitors waiting for their Gratefulness Levels to reach a point where they will be compelled to dash into their boss's office and suck him off. They are trying to get on with their work and feeling angry when there's a pay freeze for the third year in a row and rumours of layoffs and then how will they pay the bills?

[camdendayton]

3. She is Unfulfilled

The only way that a woman can find identity and meaning in her life is to discover and fulfill the purposes for which God made her. Scripture establishes the fact that God made the woman to be a "help meet" (helpful companion) to her husband. (See Genesis 2:18) She will never find fulfillment by trying to copy a man's role

That's why housewives wanted to work outside the house... because they were so Fulfilled!

12. She builds up a nice 401(k) with which she can retire ahead of schedule, permitting her to care for her dying dad, have more time w her kiddoes, and approach her very imperfect marriage w energy that actually helps improve things.

B-b-b-but that $$ might allow her to leave that imperfect marriage...

2. She Neglects Her Children

No one can fully take the place of the mother when children are young. There is no such thing as "quality time" in a child's world. the needs of children are as urgent as they are unscheduled; and God expects a mother, to whom He has entrusted a child, to care for that child.

I felt SO neglected when I mom was teaching preschool while I was at school. When I came home there were sometimes dirty dishes in the sink! It was awful!! I really hated that my mom spent all that $$ on me and my brother while my dad refused to use his $$ for much other than necessities and putting $$ away to retire early. I would have much rather in my teenage years been hanging out with my mom after school than doing all that useless swimming that allowed me to get a college scholarship. Oh wait, did I just prove #9!?!? ;-)

[apple1]

11. She gives her parents the chance to be involved in their grandchildren's day to day lives. When Grandpa is widowed suddenly, his time w his grandchildren is a welcome thing.

12. She builds up a nice 401(k) with which she can retire ahead of schedule, permitting her to care for her dying dad, have more time w her kiddoes, and approach her very imperfect marriage w energy that actually helps improve things.

13. With her own corporate experience, she is able to advise her young adult children w wisdom far beyond "Now, be a beacon of God's love out there at Big Impersonal Corporation and allllll your hard work and selflessness will be rewarded."

A winking smiley belongs here, but the ones available don't have enough ... gleefulness to them.

14. Never mind the 401K (although that is a good idea). Her paycheck keeps her family afloat when her husband is forced to "retire" at the age of 54, is unemployed for 8 months, then once employed again makes slightly over minimum wage. Her paycheck S---T---R---E---T---C---H---E---S (maybe! maybe not) enough to help out adult daughter who is the mother of new grandbaby and whose a*****e of a boss "eliminates" her job right at the time she is to return to work without any notice then "spins" it for the unemployment commission that said daughter "refused work". :angry-fire:

[Antigone]

Apple, that is downright awful that people do that to others :(

I've been on the recieving end of that kind of love myself for different reasons (disability). I would LOVE to have any kind of job that has a steady income so I can feel better about myself as a whole, instead of feeling like I am solely a SAHM. Heaven forbid, my mental health/self image might actually.... IMPROVE, and I might see myself as a human being :)

Sorry, this kind of thing hits close to home, since hubby is now working on finding job number 3 and I can't do a thing to help financially until MAYBE next year :( I know everyone has their own story, and I'm just venting a bit, LOL.

Thank god for FJ, or I'd have gone off the deep end months ago. Gothard can go "kiss my shiny metal ass" as my daughter says (nod to Futurama starting tonight, my daughter has been begging to watch it for a week).

[fundiefan]

I can't seem to find it in me to consider taking advice about being a mom, woman, wife and female employee from a man who has never been either.

Until he has been a female in the workplace, he needs to stick to other manly subjects.

[Effie]

What Happens When A Mother Works Outside Of The Home:

1. A) She has a different interpretation of the scripture.

B) She isn't Christian so she has no reason to take the scripture into account.

2. She wants her children to grow into independent individuals (not all dependent on her).

3. She is fulfilled.

4. When working outside the home, she finds other things to talk about with her husband than patchwork quilts or home-made corn bread. Her marriage never gets boring. She has constantly new experiences to share with her husband. She contributes to making her marriage more solid, and the love for each other to grow.

5. While she will take into account her employer's needs and desires, her job is not about satisfying her employer's all needs. If so, she would probably not work there in the first place. She is not a prostitute.

6. She is her own master. She is not living in "2 competing worlds" but in "2 complementary worlds". Her husband does his share of the household chores at home, just as she does her share of working outside the home.

7. She doesn't live an isolated life. When working outside the home she establishes new contacts. -> She is happier. (The human being is a gregarious animal so naturally she needs to socialize with not just a limited group of people.)

8. She doesn't neglect vital home functions. It's not necessary to spend time with your children 24/7, unless you want them to depend too much on others to meet their emotional and physical needs. Also it's not necessary to scrub the floors each week. Some simple vacuum-cleaning will do.

9. She sets a good example for others. She is a responsible citizen paying taxes. Taxes are great. Taxes are very much needed to help the poor and the sick in the society.

10. She is financially very wise. She and her husband will now manage to save money for their children's college education or driving license. She doesn't have to spoil her children only because her family has some extra money. -> The working woman is not stupid.

(Okay blabla. I was being super-silly. I just felt like spending some time in this forum today because I'm feeling blue, and usually you guys make me feel better. )

[Rosa]

Okay, #5 - your husband is like your boss and he is SO BAD AT IT that minimally decent treatment will cause you to love your paying boss more than him?

Seriously, these people make marriage and motherhood sound awful.

[mirele]

This is truly a disturbing vision of a workplace. Has this Gothard wanker ever actually held down a job?

No, why would he have to do that, he's been busy sucking the lifeblood out of IBLP and ATI families for three decades now.

Seriously, this is a never-married, no children man giving advice on marriage and parenting. Something is wrong with this picture.

[Nothing2CHere]

11. She gives her parents the chance to be involved in their grandchildren's day to day lives. When Grandpa is widowed suddenly, his time w his grandchildren is a welcome thing.

12. She builds up a nice 401(k) with which she can retire ahead of schedule, permitting her to care for her dying dad, have more time w her kiddoes, and approach her very imperfect marriage w energy that actually helps improve things.

13. With her own corporate experience, she is able to advise her young adult children w wisdom far beyond "Now, be a beacon of God's love out there at Big Impersonal Corporation and allllll your hard work and selflessness will be rewarded."

A winking smiley belongs here, but the ones available don't have enough ... gleefulness to them.

Amen to #11. My grandfather wasn't widowed, but when my mom would work during the summers, she would drop us off at her parents' house on her way to work, and we LOVED it there. There was a swimming pool, we got to play with the boy who lived next door (even though my grandmother thought he was a trouble maker; there weren't very many other kids in our neighborhood), we got all sorts of special treats. Sometimes we'd spend the entire week there, sleeping over each night. Mom would stop by on her way home from work to have dinner with us, and then kiss us goodnight and head back to our house. Those are some of my favorite childhood memories, and I realize how fortunate we were to get to spend as much time with our grandparents as we did, since my other cousins didn't have that.

[debrand]

God intended for the home to be the center of a mother's world. In Titus 2:5, women are instructed to be "...discreet, chaste, keepers at home,

1. Some women are better 'keepers of the home' because they work at a paying job. Having one parent remain at home works for some families but it doesn't work for all. If your kids are hungry and you refuse to work, how is that being a 'keeper of the home?'

[apple1]

Apple, that is downright awful that people do that to others :(

I've been on the recieving end of that kind of love myself for different reasons (disability). I would LOVE to have any kind of job that has a steady income so I can feel better about myself as a whole, instead of feeling like I am solely a SAHM. Heaven forbid, my mental health/self image might actually.... IMPROVE, and I might see myself as a human being :)

Sorry, this kind of thing hits close to home, since hubby is now working on finding job number 3 and I can't do a thing to help financially until MAYBE next year :( I know everyone has their own story, and I'm just venting a bit, LOL.

Thank god for FJ, or I'd have gone off the deep end months ago. Gothard can go "kiss my shiny metal ass" as my daughter says (nod to Futurama starting tonight, my daughter has been begging to watch it for a week).

Antigone,

I hope that things look up for you soon.

[treemom]

I hope all those in tough job/financial situations have a better financial/job outlook soon. It sucks when those are the case.

In my house, Mom (me!) working means lots of vacations around the world and being able to freely donate to any cause we want. It means I am able to live out my motto, people before money.