feeling sympathy for Smuggar

[bananacat]

This is my first post on the new board!

 

Anyway, I never thought I would be sympathetic to Smuggar, but two points on different threads are making me feel sympathy for him. Now I kind of want to free Josh too.

 

First, I wonder if he has hypothyroidism. I have that disease and it's relatively easy to manage, but if you don't stay on top of it, it will drain your soul. We all like to snark about his weight gain, but a change in weight that fast is not normal, and I think there's more going on than just too much chicken-etti. He's young enough that his weight should be more stable and he should have a high metabolism. When my thyroid is low, I gain weight so easily, but when it is under control, whether I eat healthy or binge on junk food, my weight still stays steady. This could also explain why he seems so lazy. Or he could have depression, which can also cause rapid weight gain and fatigue. What really concerns me is that he will delay getting help because he'll feel guilty and think that if prays hard enough, God will make his medical problems disappear. I almost hope it is hypothyroidism because if it's depression it will never be taken seriously among fundies. I know fundie women are pressured to put on a fake smile, but the men probably feel the same kind of pressure to a lesser extent. If he's depressed, he won't be able to admit that his lifestyle is maybe less than perfect.

 

Second, there's the "sin in the camp" incident. Apparently he was engaged at a very young age, 15 or 16, and then the girl's father lost an election and blamed it on Josh. There is speculation that he was even sent to a camp to get him back under the fundie thumb. That's a lot for a teenager to handle.

 

He is the oldest of 19 and that can't be easy. Even though the girls do more work, I think he must have done at least some chores before his sisters were old enough to completely take over. Maybe his smugness is just a front for something worse going on.

 

Now I'm hoping that he'll break away from the cult and be a leading example for all his siblings. I would love to see a tell-all book about the "sin in the camp" incident specifically. Can you imagine being a teenager and being blamed for an adult's failure because of some minor infraction?

[keeperrox]

I thought the sin in the camp was the excuse for JimBoob's lost election?

[bananacat]

There's a discussion over here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=375 that says it's about Jim Holt's lost election. But even if it was about Jim Bob, it would still suck to blame a teenager for an adult's failure.

[Sola]

I'm not convinced there is a medical problem behind his weight gain. I remember on an episode I saw a while back, Anna was cooking dinner and was frying a whole load of steaks, way more than the pair of them should have reasonably eaten. When you look at the chicken-etti dish, it is very high in fat and carbs. When you look at Smuggar's lifestyle now, at the car lot, he seems to be sat on his butt at the office a fair bit. He isn't exactly expending a whole lot of energy. He's stopped growing now and his calorific requirements will have levelled out from when he was in his late teens.

As for the rest of the stuff, I don't think any of us really know what went on in the 'sin in the camp' incident. We'll probably never find out either, not unless one of Smuggar's siblings breaks for freedom (I am personally hoping for Joy-Anna). I don't think Smuggar will ever leave the family lifestyle; he gains too much from it and he is well and truthfully brainwashed.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Personally I've always felt the "sin in the camp" thing was a load of crap. If Josh was "engaged" or whatever they want to call it, it was in a very, very innocent, sheltered and supervised setting. Maybe he kissed her. I doubt he undressed or anything.

People make a lot out of his shaved head in the on 16 Kids and Moving In show. Maybe his sister gave him a terrible haircut [learning how to cut hair] and he choose to shave it off and start over?? Maybe he went, with his own agreement, on an ALERT training course--lots of ATI boys do that. I never really saw a reason to obsess over this. My own son has had long hair, no hair, clean shaven face, stubbly beard etc.. Josh was only 16 or 17 and had almost no way to express himself.

[lilwriter85]

I'm not convinced there is a medical problem behind his weight gain. I remember on an episode I saw a while back, Anna was cooking dinner and was frying a whole load of steaks, way more than the pair of them should have reasonably eaten. When you look at the chicken-etti dish, it is very high in fat and carbs. When you look at Smuggar's lifestyle now, at the car lot, he seems to be sat on his butt at the office a fair bit. He isn't exactly expending a whole lot of energy. He's stopped growing now and his calorific requirements will have levelled out from when he was in his late teens.

As for the rest of the stuff, I don't think any of us really know what went on in the 'sin in the camp' incident. We'll probably never find out either, not unless one of Smuggar's siblings breaks for freedom (I am personally hoping for Joy-Anna). I don't think Smuggar will ever leave the family lifestyle; he gains too much from it and he is well and truthfully brainwashed.

I agree I don't see Smuggar ever leaving the family lifestyle. He is the least likely one in my opinion. He is too brainwashed and he has an ego about being a fundie Christian. I saw on his website that he and Anna were offering to counsel other Christian couples. I don't think Smuggar, John, Jana, Jill or Jessa will ever break free from the lifestyle. I think it will be one of the younger kids who will turn mainstream Christian and then reveal some family secrets.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Even mild food deprivation can make you respond to food in odd ways. I think in the original household there was probably not much freedom regarding eating. It's like an army. Three meals of TTC and canned soup and crackers per day. OK, if you say "Mom I'm ravenous" between meals, Michelle might have said "you can have an apple or a banana". (Or "Here's a big bag of frozen fruit, root through that for a while.") So when Josh and Anna realized there was only the two of them and they could buy and eat whatever they wanted, they probably went a little nuts (though Anna may have more self-control, metabolizes differently or is just obsessed with keeping her weight down like a good little wife).

[Buzzard]

I agree I don't see Smuggar ever leaving the family lifestyle. He is the least likely one in my opinion. He is too brainwashed and he has an ego about being a fundie Christian. I saw on his website that he and Anna were offering to counsel other Christian couples. I don't Smuggar, John, Jana, Jill or Jessa will ever break free from the lifestyle. I think it will be one of the younger kids who will turn mainstream Christian and then reveal what some family secrets.

I agree, it will be one of the little kids. They will see that TLC wont follow all of them. There could be an entire TV network of Duggar shows if each of them and their families have shows! The money will dry up. They'll see their sibling struggling as Jim Boob wont bail them out (remember the quote from michelle about cutting the cord). They'll see the only way out is to tell it all. My money is on Joy.

[snickerz]

Even mild food deprivation can make you respond to food in odd ways. I think in the original household there was probably not much freedom regarding eating. It's like an army. Three meals of TTC and canned soup and crackers per day. OK, if you say "Mom I'm ravenous" between meals, Michelle might have said "you can have an apple or a banana". (Or "Here's a big bag of frozen fruit, root through that for a while.") So when Josh and Anna realized there was only the two of them and they could buy and eat whatever they wanted, they probably went a little nuts (though Anna may have more self-control, metabolizes differently or is just obsessed with keeping her weight down like a good little wife).

I agree. If you remember back to their wedding registry, it had all kinds of crazy snack foods on it. They asked for candy bars for wedding gifts! I think a lot of it had to be with being 19 or whatever, and immature, and a lot had to do with the fact that they probably did NOT have much junk food growing up. I think Josh went a little crazy in the eating dept. when he got out on his own. Who knows if he'll ever "grow up" and learn to eat healthy, or if he'll just continue to gorge himself.

[Witsec6]

I'm not convinced there is a medical problem behind his weight gain. I remember on an episode I saw a while back, Anna was cooking dinner and was frying a whole load of steaks, way more than the pair of them should have reasonably eaten. When you look at the chicken-etti dish, it is very high in fat and carbs. When you look at Smuggar's lifestyle now, at the car lot, he seems to be sat on his butt at the office a fair bit. He isn't exactly expending a whole lot of energy. He's stopped growing now and his calorific requirements will have levelled out from when he was in his late teens.

As for the rest of the stuff, I don't think any of us really know what went on in the 'sin in the camp' incident. We'll probably never find out either, not unless one of Smuggar's siblings breaks for freedom (I am personally hoping for Joy-Anna). I don't think Smuggar will ever leave the family lifestyle; he gains too much from it and he is well and truthfully brainwashed.

Do you think maybe she was cooking for the camera crew? Remember, we never see these people truly "alone".

[fundiefan]

Assigning, or even guessing at, a medical problem to explain the weight gain of someone goes a long way in the excuse department. Whey can't he simply 'just have gained weight'? Why does there have to be a reason behind it, or a specific reason?

Kids go away to college and gain the 'freshman 15' or whatever because their lifestyle changes. Eating cafeteria food, often less physical activity without the extra-curriculars from high school, spending hours sitting on their asses while studying and doing homework. Why can't they get married and leave home and have the same thing happen for the same reasons?

I do think he is looking a little porky, but I don't think there is any specific or negative or medical reason behind it. Life changes, habits change, shit happens.

[deelaem]

Even mild food deprivation can make you respond to food in odd ways. I think in the original household there was probably not much freedom regarding eating. It's like an army. Three meals of TTC and canned soup and crackers per day. OK, if you say "Mom I'm ravenous" between meals, Michelle might have said "you can have an apple or a banana". (Or "Here's a big bag of frozen fruit, root through that for a while.") So when Josh and Anna realized there was only the two of them and they could buy and eat whatever they wanted, they probably went a little nuts (though Anna may have more self-control, metabolizes differently or is just obsessed with keeping her weight down like a good little wife).

I totally agree with you. I come from a family of eight children, and food was at a high premium in our house. We never went hungry or anything, but second helpings always went to the boys (RME) or were non-existent. My mother was also a bit of a health nut, which I'm glad of now but back then just made sweet foods take on too much importance for me. Consequently when I got out on my own I went food-crazy.

I really think weight gain is the least of Smuggar's problems. Being a controlling, selfish, perverted asshole is more of a pressing concern.

[Jessica]

She could have just been cooking in bulk to save time on a later meal...

Edit - I'm not trying to defend Josh's lard-a** but everyone makes a big deal out of Anna cooking a whole pack of steaks. You CAN cook ahead and put the extras away in the freezer...

[MissSeptember]

Anna is used to cooking for a large family, so to cook for just 2 people is a huge change. When my parents finally had an empty nest my mom said they always had left overs and usually ended up throwing them away after they went bad in the fridge.

Also, Smuggar and Anna are at that age when you stop growing and your metabolism slows a little. Think back to college, everyone gained a few pounds (at least!) between graduating high school and hitting age 25. Of course there are lots of variables that contribute to that, like alcohol, dorm food, etc. but overall I don't think Josh's weight gain is anything out of the ordinary for someone his age.

[lilwriter85]

I agree, it will be one of the little kids. They will see that TLC wont follow all of them. There could be an entire TV network of Duggar shows if each of them and their families have shows! The money will dry up. They'll see their sibling struggling as Jim Boob wont bail them out (remember the quote from michelle about cutting the cord). They'll see the only way out is to tell it all. My money is on Joy.

I can sort of see of Joy maybe breaking free, but she I have noticed she follows her older sisters closely so I have a feeling she might not break free. The Duggars' show is losing some popularity right now. I think once the show ends, the Duggars will still be ok financially but I don't think they will have extra money for vacations, expensive electronics or a few other things. As for cutting the cord, the Duggars haven't been entirely honest about that. Tax/property records online have indicated that Boob still owns the car lots and Josh's house is Mary's rental house. They haven't completely the cord with Josh. I do think part of the reason Smuggar was able to open a second car lot was because of some TLC money. The money from TLC will dry up at some point after the show ends. There are some naive Duggar fans that have said that the "Duggars as rich" as people involved in scripted television. I laughed when people say BS like that, because the Duggars will never be as wealthy as scripted TV producers, creators and actors/actresses.

The Duggars won't make any long term profits off their show. American reality shows aren't profitable in the long run for a few reasons. They are rarely sold into syndication/reruns and they rarely air outside of the U.S. Syndication and foreign airings are part of the reason that TV producers like Aaron Spelling, Norman Lear, Susan Harris and others became wealthy. The only reality shows that air frequently outside the U.S. are the competition shows like American Idol. The DVD sales for the Duggar shows probably aren't huge. The only people willing enough to shell money for DVD sets of 19 kids and counting are usually the hardcore fans who are like Duggars or people that are too naive about the family. Scripted TV shows on DVD will always outsell reality show DVD's. Once TLC is done with the show, DFH will probably air reruns of the show for awhile and Boob will get some of those profits. I would say that within 2 or 3 years after cancelation, the TLC money will be gone.

I agree the younger kids will then see the older siblings struggle and the family probably won't be taking that many vacations. They will probably have enough extra money to go to homeschooling conventions. I think the younger kids will slowly realize how they were pimped out for TV and I can see them resenting Boob and Mullett.

[xReems]

I highly doubt that Josh has a medical condition. I've been with my boyfriend for three years now and I can say for truth that I have gained about 10 lbs and he's gained about 20 lbs (he needed to anyways) since we started dating. I still do eat healthy, just not as hardcore as before. I know it has to do with the fact that since I found my Mr. Right, I've cut back on my extreme dieting ways. Some of my friends have gained a little bit of weight since getting married or getting in a committed relationship. It's definitely happened to both Anna and Josh.

I honestly do not know if Josh wants to get away from his parents. With his "homeless shelter" remark in one episode, it has made me wonder if he wants to break away from his family a bit, with the lime light still on him of course. He bought a huge tv and claimed it's used for "educational purposes" but then again, he has those extreme conservative values he has grown up with. It doesn't help the fact that technically JB owns the car lot and the house they live in. Although he is financially cut off, he's still under his parents authority.

At the same time, I feel like Josh and Anna are the younger version of JB and Michelle. Yep, highly doubt he wants to break away now.

[valsa]

Add me to the "he's just fat" camp. I once gained 80 lbs in about a year and a half. Nothing was medically wrong with me, I just went from exercising and watching what I eat to... neither. Josh works an office job, probably learned nothing about healthy eating from the SOTDRT, and it shows.

Also, I doubt Josh will leave the "family business" (being a fundy) He's a king in their little world and I don't think he's moral enough to end all the perks he's getting "just" for the benefit of others in his family.

[Lainey]

It's the radiation that's causing his weight gain. Just ask Esther.

[bananacat]

Umm, Josh didn't just gain 10 pounds over 3 years, or even 15 pounds over one year. He gained probably 40-50 pounds in just a few months. Even most very fat people have a stable weight, where it doesn't shoot up that much that fast. Like I said, when my thyroid is under control, I can scarf down tons of pizza and ice cream and not gain any weight, even though I am overweight to begin with. But if my thyroid is low, I will gain a ton of weight in just one or two months, no matter what I eat. You just can't eat enough steak to gain weight that fast unless there is something else going on.

[Prek teach]

In a way I feel sympathy for him as well. He is woefully under educated and seems not to notice. He had big dreams (or said he did) and those dreams have not borne fruit. He hasn't yet found his niche and he has IMO a lack of work ethic. What ever happened to his sign and website businesses? He touts the Gothard line to a point, but we never saw any evidence of his investment in the Gothard way like we do with the Staddon family. Josh lacks the talent/desire to work with his hands that could afford him with a career in construction or mechanics like JD. And his secluded childhood has kept him from developing the street smarts, tact, and savvy that his parents developed when living among less like-minded people. To me, Josh is suffering from a case of arrested development. I do realize that many of the general population also lack work ethic, are under educated and immature, but the majority of them are not on television lecturing the rest of us with a cringe-worthy sense of self importance.

[3 is enough]

It's funny. I feel sorry for him in a way because he didn't ask to be brought up in this lifestyle, and essentially, with Daddy still owning the car lot and Grandma still owning the house, he's trapped. Maybe if he was single, he could break away, but with a wife and 2 kids to support, and no education to speak of, he's screwed.

But then he opens his mouth, the smug comments fly, and any sympathy I had disappears.

I personally think the weight gain was a result of going from a household where food was rationed to a certain extent to a household of just 2. Also, given the sheltered nature of his upbringing, trips to McDonald's or Chick-Fil_A with his buddies probably were not an option.(Did he even have buddies that weren't siblings?) Now he can eat what he wants when he wants, and it shows.

It would be a bit ironic if he did have a problem with hypothyroidism, since it is much more prevalent in women. Just imagine the little patriarch having a "girl's disease".

[lilwriter85]

]It's funny. I feel sorry for him in a way because he didn't ask to be brought up in this lifestyle, and essentially, with Daddy still owning the car lot and Grandma still owning the house, he's trapped. Maybe if he was single, he could break away, but with a wife and 2 kids to support, and no education to speak of, he's screwed.

But then he opens his mouth, the smug comments fly, and any sympathy I had disappears.

I personally think the weight gain was a result of going from a household where food was rationed to a certain extent to a household of just 2. Also, given the sheltered nature of his upbringing, trips to McDonald's or Chick-Fil_A with his buddies probably were not an option.(Did he even have buddies that weren't siblings?) Now he can eat what he wants when he wants, and it shows.

It would be a bit ironic if he did have a problem with hypothyroidism, since it is much more prevalent in women. Just imagine the little patriarch having a "girl's disease".

I agree with this. I do feel sorry for him in that way too. He is still trapped by and he isn't not in the position to break away. It irritates me how the Duggars have made him out to be a "budding entrepreneur" when he really isn't.

[ladypuglover]

Umm, Josh didn't just gain 10 pounds over 3 years, or even 15 pounds over one year. He gained probably 40-50 pounds in just a few months. Even most very fat people have a stable weight, where it doesn't shoot up that much that fast. Like I said, when my thyroid is under control, I can scarf down tons of pizza and ice cream and not gain any weight, even though I am overweight to begin with. But if my thyroid is low, I will gain a ton of weight in just one or two months, no matter what I eat. You just can't eat enough steak to gain weight that fast unless there is something else going on.

Wouldn't a thyroid problem explain the early hair loss also? Only a doctor that has done extensive testing could say if that is for sure but there are more than a few signs that he may want to be tested. I would just hope that he doesn't try to leave it all up to God only.

[lilah]

I agree on both counts. He even said in the Honeymoon special that Anna was used to shopping and cooking for a much larger family and it's not like Chickenetti is that good for you (all that sodium!) I bet in the pre TLC cash cow days food was very regimented for the sake of frugality, now it seems like the howler monkeys can steal food without repercussion and the other kids have more autnonomy about eating.

[PennySycamore]

You're right, ladypuglover. Hair loss is associated with hypothyroidism. It sure couldn't hurt for Smuggar to have his thyroid checked.

Btw, I love your avatar. Pugs are so cute!