Katy Perry and Fundie Background...

[koolmom]

Just flipping through a copy of Oct. 2011 In Style magazine and came across an article featuring the pop star, Katy Perry. Quote "In Style",

"Growing up, Katy Perry wasn't allowed to celebrate Halloween. Every year on the last day of October,

Katy, her younger brother, David, and her big sister, Angela, would dim the lights, close the windows,

and ignore the ringing doorbell at their Santa Barbara home".

"Halloween originated as a pagan holiday, after all, and her evangelical minister parents, Keith and

Mary Hudson, were having none of it. While the neighborhood was overrun with sugar-fueled witches

and Power Rangers, she and her siblings were reading pamphlets about razor blades hidden inside

candy. Perry recalls with laugh. "We'd even keep the dog inside for fear of it getting sacrificed!"

"The 27-year-old has still never been trick-or-treating. "Please God", she says with mock drama.

"It's my favorite holiday. Somebody take me!"

"Growing up, Katheryn Hudson (she changed her name to avoid confusion with actress Kate Hudson)

was always the outspoken one, says her sister, Angela (who now handles her VIP relations).

"She was born an attention hog. Whether it was belting out a song or doing dance moves, she wanted

the spotlight. Perry took after their charismatic father, Keith, a flamboyant dresser and former hippie

who, before he became a born-again, hung out with Timothy Leary."

"My dad is really outgoing and the funniest one in our family by far", says Perry. "The Hudsons some-

times had trouble making ends meet and at one point lived on food stamps. When I was 15, I started

testing the waters of other churches., she recalls. She eventually found her way to Calvary Chapel in

Santa Barbara. The church had an annual Halloween celebration and Perry put together her first

Halloween costume. She went as Molly Shannon character, Mary Katherine Gallagher from Saturday

Night Live. The glasses, the Catholic schoolgirl outfit, the whole thing". laughs Perry.

"Perry remains close to her parents, both still ministers, even though they have reportedly expressed

dismay at their daughter's pop-star lifestyle. Mary and Keith sometimes attend her shows and seem

to have reached a cordial detente with their daughter. Her relationship with them has inevitably

informed her thoughts on raising her own offspring. "I think in the future -- the very far future --

when I have children, I'll have a more open approach, setting boundaries and showing them what

their choices will breed".

[debrand]

James Hetfield of Metallica was brought up Christian Scientists and was not allowed to take certain classes at school. His parents shunned all medicine. The song, The God Who Failed, is based on the fact that his mother believed that God would cure her from cancer but she wasn't cured.

[AnnoDomini]

I think she was raised evangelical, not fundy.

[BravaAmica]

I'm amazed she's able to stay close with them. I wonder if it's because she was allowed to explore other churches as a teen? Not amny evangelical/fundy parents would allow that.

[AnnoDomini]

Her mom was a pastor. Right there that puts her out of any kind of fundy-dom. I'm not sure it's properly evangelical either.

[Freed]

I read an interview with her parents once, where her mother made a lot of negative comments about her and her life choices. I remember thinking at the time that they sounded a lot like some things my mom has said, and that I could identify with her a lot more now.

[chaotic life]

Her parents are fundie. There ARE females in leadership in fundie circles. They just aren't common. Nancy Campbell, Michelle Bauchman, Mary Pride, just to name a few. Perry's mother is extremely fundie and extremely vocal in her disapproval of Katy's career and music. She wrote a book recently where she claimes she knows Katy is a prophettess and will return to her faith at some point in the future.

That Katy Perry works SO hard to maintain relationship with her parents, in spite of their views and condemnation is a strong testimony to how much she truly loves them. They are full-on fundie. They even have a bizarre, crazy/fundie website for their ministry last time I checked.

[mirele]

I think she was raised evangelical, not fundy.

Actually Charismatic. You know, Pentecostal woo in the 21st century.

ETA: I think what's going on here is that a lot of people classify all conservative Protestant religion as "fundie." As someone who has devoted a bit of time to religious taxonomy, I have to admit that drives me stark staring bonkers.

To me, "fundie" means someone who comes out of the fundamental Baptist tradition and usually members of the scads of Independent Fundamental Baptist churches out there.

"Evangelical" to me means still very conservative (IMO) but willing to interact with the world in some ways. I'd put most megachurches in this category along with people in various evangelical style denominations, in a spectrum from the Nazarenes through the Evangelical Free Church to Calvary Chapel, more conservative Methodists and less conservative Southern Baptists. It's a big catch-all.

"Charismatic" are the modern offshoots of the 20th century Pentecostal movement, many of which are independent of church bodies or whose church bodies started in 20th century. These people are also willing to engage the world, but they also insist on bringing "Holy Spirit discernment" to their interactions (along with prophesying and speaking in tongues and suchlike.) For example, the Assembly of God of my teenage years would have been Pentecostal, but now has moved to Charismatic. The Vineyard churches are charismatic, as well.

Calvinists: harder core Presbyterians and independent churches who follow TULIP. John Piper is a megachurch Calvinist.

tl;dr: just a big spout off about what "Fundie" means to me.

Anyway, Katy Perry's parents are Charismatic itinerant evangelists. They would not be welcome in a fundie church, because Katy's mother is a preacher and that's a huge no-no.

Edited to fix the placement of the tl;dr.

[formergothardite]

Didn't she originally start off trying to be a Christian singer in her teens?

[apple1]

Her mom was a pastor. Right there that puts her out of any kind of fundy-dom.

Not true.

Go read the thread about the "Jesus Camp" documentary.

There are fundies of various kinds.

[AnnoDomini]

Actually Charismatic. You know, Pentecostal woo in the 21st century.

ETA: I think what's going on here is that a lot of people classify all conservative Protestant religion as "fundie." As someone who has devoted a bit of time to religious taxonomy, I have to admit that drives me stark staring bonkers.

To me, "fundie" means someone who comes out of the fundamental Baptist tradition and usually members of the scads of Independent Fundamental Baptist churches out there.

"Evangelical" to me means still very conservative (IMO) but willing to interact with the world in some ways. I'd put most megachurches in this category along with people in various evangelical style denominations, in a spectrum from the Nazarenes through the Evangelical Free Church to Calvary Chapel, more conservative Methodists and less conservative Southern Baptists. It's a big catch-all.

tl;dr: just a big spout off about what "Fundie" means to me.

"Charismatic" are the modern offshoots of the 20th century Pentecostal movement, many of which are independent of church bodies or whose church bodies started in 20th century. These people are also willing to engage the world, but they also insist on bringing "Holy Spirit discernment" to their interactions (along with prophesying and speaking in tongues and suchlike.) For example, the Assembly of God of my teenage years would have been Pentecostal, but now has moved to Charismatic. The Vineyard churches are charismatic, as well.

Calvinists: harder core Presbyterians and independent churches who follow TULIP. John Piper is a megachurch Calvinist.

Anyway, Katy Perry's parents are Charismatic itinerant evangelists. They would not be welcome in a fundie church, because Katy's mother is a preacher and that's a huge no-no.

Mirelle, you have a good point there. Sometimes it seems that we at FJ call any conscientously practicing, conservative Christian (particularly Protestant) a 'fundy'. The term is getting used for so many, it may begin to lose its meaning soon.

[AnnoDomini]

Her parents are fundie. There ARE females in leadership in fundie circles. They just aren't common. Nancy Campbell, Michelle Bauchman, Mary Pride, just to name a few. Perry's mother is extremely fundie and extremely vocal in her disapproval of Katy's career and music. She wrote a book recently where she claimes she knows Katy is a prophettess and will return to her faith at some point in the future.

That Katy Perry works SO hard to maintain relationship with her parents, in spite of their views and condemnation is a strong testimony to how much she truly loves them. They are full-on fundie. They even have a bizarre, crazy/fundie website for their ministry last time I checked.

Occasional promiment female teaching, yes. Preaching a la head of the church, up in the pulpit, no.

[maybeizfundie]

Thank you Mirele.

And while *crazy* comes in all colors, including charismatic and evangelical groups, there are still huuuuge differences between them and commonly snarked upon fundies. Vast majority of charismatics and evangelicals are by no means Quiverfull, for instance. Most of them would also consider Vision Forum/Albert Mohler/RC Jr/ Voddie Baucham/etc at various points on the other side of the "Nuts" line.

[apple1]

Occasional promiment female teaching, yes. Preaching a la head of the church, up in the pulpit, no.

Once again, no.

Depends on which kind of "fundies". Some no, some yes.

[chaotic life]

Independent Fundamental Baptists is ONE demonination that falls under "Fundie." They are by far NOT the corner on the "Fundie" market. And yes, Katy Perry was a Contemporary Christian singer as a teen, but did not get her career off the ground very well.

"Fundamentalism is a religious perspective and movement that originated around 1900 within American Protestantism. It was a self-concious effort among Conservative Protestants to curtail the spread of 'liberalism' in American religion and secularization in American culture and society."

"In an effort to combat this 'creeping liberalism' and restore Christianity to what they regarded as its original nature and message, many Evangelicals coalesced around the publication, beginning in 1910 of The Fundamentals. The Fundamentals exposited five central doctrins and an additional four that could more or less be inferred from the central five. The five were: 1. the verbal and ineerant inspriation of the Bible, 2. the virgin birth of Jesus Christ, 3. the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ (Jesus taking the punishemtn for sin in people's place), 4. the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and 5. the imminent second coming of Jesus Christ. The four related doctrines were: 1. the diety of Jesus Christ, 2. the sinful nature of humanity, 3 salvation by faith through the free grace of God, and 4. the expectation of the bodily resurrection of true believers on the Last Day.

Much attention was also paid to refutation of errors, such as the theory of organic eovlution and higher criticism of the Bible, and to ways of relating to such heretical religious groups and movements as Roman Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, and spiritualism."

--Religion in Society by Ronald Johnstone pages 180, 184-185.

Johnstone is one of the main texts used for Sociolog of Religion classes. I've had several professors argue that its not the *best* not because its inaccurate but because they feel it doesn't cover enough detail of certain religious sects. The main argument I've heard on Johnstone is that it is heavily focused on Christianity as opposed to other religious sects, which makes some sense for US society but not necessarily in a strict study of religion per se.

[AnnoDomini]

Apple--ok. I was raised in an environment that preached that women were never, ever to be pastors, no matter how learned they were, and anyone who thought otherwise was liberal. I have honestly never once heard before now that any branch of Christian fundyism allowed for female pastors. But you're right--it could just be because I was raised fundy and therefore sheltered.

[apple1]

Apple--ok. I was raised in an environment that preached that women were never, ever to be pastors, no matter how learned they were, and anyone who thought otherwise was liberal. I have honestly never once heard before now that any branch of Christian fundyism allowed for female pastors. But you're right--it could just be because I was raised fundy and therefore sheltered.

As I, and others, said earlier, there are many varieties of "fundies". While it is true that traditionally fundamental Baptists have been dead set against female "preachers" or pastors, this does not extend to all varieties of fundies. Charismatics and Pentecostals, for example, and a variety of smaller groups, have not had the no-women-in-the-pulpit outlook that commonly exists with Baptists.

There is a whole world out there that is bigger than the one you have grown up in.

[mirele]

Independent Fundamental Baptists is ONE demonination that falls under "Fundie." They are by far NOT the corner on the "Fundie" market. And yes, Katy Perry was a Contemporary Christian singer as a teen, but did not get her career off the ground very well.

"Fundamentalism is a religious perspective and movement that originated around 1900 within American Protestantism. It was a self-concious effort among Conservative Protestants to curtail the spread of 'liberalism' in American religion and secularization in American culture and society."

"In an effort to combat this 'creeping liberalism' and restore Christianity to what they regarded as its original nature and message, many Evangelicals coalesced around the publication, beginning in 1910 of The Fundamentals. The Fundamentals exposited five central doctrins and an additional four that could more or less be inferred from the central five. The five were: 1. the verbal and ineerant inspriation of the Bible, 2. the virgin birth of Jesus Christ, 3. the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ (Jesus taking the punishemtn for sin in people's place), 4. the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and 5. the imminent second coming of Jesus Christ. The four related doctrines were: 1. the diety of Jesus Christ, 2. the sinful nature of humanity, 3 salvation by faith through the free grace of God, and 4. the expectation of the bodily resurrection of true believers on the Last Day.

Much attention was also paid to refutation of errors, such as the theory of organic eovlution and higher criticism of the Bible, and to ways of relating to such heretical religious groups and movements as Roman Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, and spiritualism."

--Religion in Society by Ronald Johnstone pages 180, 184-185.

Johnstone is one of the main texts used for Sociolog of Religion classes. I've had several professors argue that its not the *best* not because its inaccurate but because they feel it doesn't cover enough detail of certain religious sects. The main argument I've heard on Johnstone is that it is heavily focused on Christianity as opposed to other religious sects, which makes some sense for US society but not necessarily in a strict study of religion per se.

Thing is, I would argue that the "fundamentals" have been accepted by virtually all conservative Protestant Christian groups and are not restricted to the original group(s) that the "fundamentals" were directed at. In other words, Evangelicals and Charismatics also follow the "fundamentals" but our fundamentalists would have a hard time with the "lukewarmness" of an Evangelical Protestant or the emphasis on the Holy Spirit in Charismatic churches.

In short, the "fundamentals" are used as the basic entree point into conservative Protestantism. You have to agree to those, and if you don't you can just become an Episcopalian or whatever.

tl;dr: fundamentalism doesn't mean much of anything anymore, what with the "fundamentals" being the basic touchstone of conservative Protestantism in America and that despite what the sociologists of religion say.

[chaotic life]

Mirele, you've simply restated what I posted. Fundamentalism is not a denomination. It is most certainly NOT the IFB churches. It is a identification by Conservative Protestants of ALL denominations, not merely one. It was a self asserted label by those Conservative Protestants who were reacting to modernism and their perception of how they felt the Christian faith was being threatened by that modernism.

It is precisely because Fundamentalists can be found in all denominations that it is impacting and influencing all Protestant denominations in the US.

[AnnoDomini]

As I, and others, said earlier, there are many varieties of "fundies". While it is true that traditionally fundamental Baptists have been dead set against female "preachers" or pastors, this does not extend to all varieties of fundies. Charismatics and Pentecostals, for example, and a variety of smaller groups, have not had the no-women-in-the-pulpit outlook that commonly exists with Baptists.

There is a whole world out there that is bigger than the one you have grown up in.

I see I didn't communicate clearly in my last post. In short, I agree with you now that you and others have set me straight.

[Kitty]

I thought I read somewhere that the Hudsons were Methodist, but socially conservative. I didn't think they were fundie.

[JenniferJuniper]

Wonder what the Hudsons think of their son-in-law and whether they attended the Hindu wedding ceremony?

I love Russell Brand, but even I'd have a few qualms about having him for a SIL. :o

[chaotic life]

I was Fundie in a Methodist church. Most of our Methodist church at that time was Fundie, especially those with young children. Wasn't sanctioned by the church per se, but was well entrenched in the small groups, the children's programs, and even the sermons from the pulpit.

[titus2_4u]

She did put out a Christian album in 2001. Here's Christianity Today's review: http://www.thefish.com/music/reviews/11 ... ty-Hudson/

"Although her lyrics aren't quite brilliant, they're definitely insightful and well matched to the emotional power of Katy's music."

She's had quite a makeover since then too!

[PBrooke]

Some choice quotes about her background: http://flavorwire.com/109416/10-bizarre ... -childhood