George H.W. Bush, 41st president of the United States, dies at 94

[VelociRapture]

On 12/1/2018 at 6:59 PM, GreyhoundFan said:

I know this should go in the cartoons thread, but felt like it was most appropriate here. It brought a tear to my eye -- Robin and Barbara waiting for George.

I haven’t caught up on this thread, but this literally made me burst into tears when I saw it the other day. I don’t have any great love for the Bushes and I think H.W. did some significant damage in his time - but no one deserves to suffer the loss of a child. I truly hope that if there is an afterlife that he and Barbara are back with the little girl they bith so obviously loved. 

[Palimpsest]

19 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I haven’t caught up on this thread, but this literally made me burst into tears when I saw it the other day. I don’t have any great love for the Bushes and I think H.W. did some significant damage in his time - but no one deserves to suffer the loss of a child. I truly hope that if there is an afterlife that he and Barbara are back with the little girl they bith so obviously loved. 

Look, no one ever "deserves" the loss of a child.  At any age.  And I have also lost "pre-born" children to miscarriage and late miscarriage.  That was horrible,  I can't even begin to imagine the horror of losing an existing child or an adult child.

What I expect from people who have lost children is compassion and understanding for others.  And, if you are in the position to do so,  extending every possible service to prevent others from losing their children.

The Bushes have milked Robin's tragic death from leukemia to the max.  For sympathy.  and I can grant them that.  Everyone deserves sympathy for losing a child.  It was in 1953, FFS.

But, since then,  what did GHWB ever do to provide universal health care?  What did he do for the parents of people who were dying of AIDS?

Fuck all.  In both cases.

 

[VelociRapture]

20 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Look, no one ever "deserves" the loss of a child.  At any age.  And I have also lost "pre-born" children to miscarriage and late miscarriage.  That was horrible,  I can't even begin to imagine the horror of losing an existing child or an adult child.

What I expect from people who have lost children is compassion and understanding for others.  And, if you are in the position to do so,  extending every possible service to prevent others from losing their children.

The Bushes have milked Robin's tragic death from leukemia to the max.  For sympathy.  and I can grant them that.  Everyone deserves sympathy for losing a child.  It was in 1953, FFS.

But, since then,  what did GHWB ever do to provide universal health care?  What did he do for the parents of people who were dying of AIDS?

Fuck all.  In both cases.

 

I don’t really get why I’m getting this response right now. I was born when he was President so I obviously don’t know much about him, but I know enough to know he wasn’t a good person or a good President for many reasons. I thought I said as much when I stated I felt he had done significant damage in his time, but maybe I should have worded that differently or more strongly. That doesn’t mean I’m incapable of expressing sympathy for what must have been a truly horrific experience for them (regardless of how long ago it occurred) or hoping that they’re somehow with Robin again - because whatever I may think of her parents, Robin herself was just a little girl who likely loved them very much and I hope she’s with them somehow for her sake.

My grandparents lost their second daughter to suicide when she was almost 33. It’s been 25 years and my normally stoic and collected grandmother almost burst into tears when she briefly spoke about how my grandfather had been her rock throughout that horrible period of time at their 60th anniversary party earlier this year. From my experience it’s a very unique type of loss and one that the parents never truly get over. My grandparents will take that grief and guilt to their graves and I don’t doubt the same was true for the Bushes.

(And I’m not trying to be combative or anything. I’m honestly not. I just genuinely don’t understand why you wrote your response as you did when we’re in agreement that he wasn’t a good person or President.)

(Also, this is a weird discussion since I don’t even know what I really believe about an afterlife. ) 

[Palimpsest]

6 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

(And I’m not trying to be combative or anything. I’m honestly not. I just genuinely don’t understand why you wrote your response as you did when we’re in agreement that he wasn’t a good person or President.)

Well, you should know I love you.  I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.  I blew my top but it was not personal to you.

I wrote my response as I did because I am fucking nauseated by the sentimentality and  hagiography of the last week.  For a man who was nasty, not a good president, and quite frankly a person who manipulated a personal tragedy for his own advantage and did nothing to help others who might have been in the same situation. 

Sorry, but the Bushes used Robin's death to manipulate - even as they may have genuinely grieved her.

[VelociRapture]

11 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Well, you should know I love you.  I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.  I blew my top but it was not personal to you.

I wrote my response as I did because I am fucking nauseated by the sentimentality and  hagiography of the last week.  For a man who was nasty, not a good president, and quite frankly a person who manipulated a personal tragedy for his own advantage and did nothing to help others who might have been in the same situation. 

Sorry, but the Bushes used Robin's death to manipulate - even as they may have genuinely grieved her.

Lol! You didn’t hurt my feelings at all, so no worries. I really was simply confused is all. Thank you for taking time to respond!

And yes, I do agree. I don’t necessarily like or think it’s a good thing to gloss over someone’s crappy choices or qualities just because they died. I have sympathy for what they experienced with Robin, but I don’t really like that people are making him out to be some sort of Saint when he was still alive now either. 

[Howl]

5 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

Wasn't he the one who said he loved all his grandchildren even the "little brown ones". 

These would be Jeb's kids. His wife is Hispanic.  Jeb's oldest kid, George P. Bush, was elected Commissioner of the General Land Office in my state of Texas.  Other than an epic kerfuffle over who manages the Alamo, he's kept a pretty low profile. 

Responding to a post upthread, George W. was raised in Midland, TX, and comes by his Texas accent honestly.  After college, he returned to Midland to start on oil and gas company.  It pains me to admit it, but he was our Governor for five years.   He's pretty much lived in Texas for most of his adult life.  To clarify, West Texas oil patch (Midland/Odessa) is seriously West Texas.  People twang out there. 

[nausicaa]

3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I wrote my response as I did because I am fucking nauseated by the sentimentality and  hagiography of the last week.  For a man who was nasty, not a good president, and quite frankly a person who manipulated a personal tragedy for his own advantage and did nothing to help others who might have been in the same situation. 

Sorry, but the Bushes used Robin's death to manipulate - even as they may have genuinely grieved her.

Eh--it's the week after his death. I think it's understandable that people will be a bit sentimental for now. I don't like the "don't speak ill of the dead" principle and think it's dangerous, but I also think a bit of time to remember what was good about someone is okay (as long as flat out lies aren't being told). 

Could you give examples of their using Robin's death to manipulate? I thought it wasn't really made public until Barbara Bush's autobiography. Then again, he left office before I could cross a street by myself, so I wasn't exactly a political junkie just yet. 

2 hours ago, Howl said:

Responding to a post upthread, George W. was raised in Midland, TX, and comes by his Texas accent honestly.  After college, he returned to Midland to start on oil and gas company.  It pains me to admit it, but he was our Governor for five years.   He's pretty much lived in Texas for most of his adult life.  To clarify, West Texas oil patch (Midland/Odessa) is seriously West Texas.  People twang out there. 

I'm not from Texas, so am no expert on this, but I know several of his Texas primary and general election opponents made derogatory comments about his accent being fake. He lived in Texas, but went to a pretty elite prep school there and then boarding school in Massachusetts, onto Yale and Harvard Business School. So ages 12 to 27 were spent around people (including family) who didn't twang. Who knows, but I'm skeptical enough about politicians to believe he may have purposefully done it to seem more folksy. 

[Audrey2]

2 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Eh--it's the week after his death. I think it's understandable that people will be a bit sentimental for now. I don't like the "don't speak ill of the dead" principle and think it's dangerous, but I also think a bit of time to remember what was good about someone is okay (as long as flat out lies aren't being told).

I think there are a couple of factors besides this that are playing into people's reactions about Bush. First, he was elected President 30 years ago (inaugurated 1-20-89), and we as a society don't tend to remember things as clearly from 25-30 years ago as we remember and experience things that are current. Second, we've been under the complete poonami that is the Trump administration for almost two years, where the unthinkable becomes reality on a daily basis, so we compare the Trump daily news to what we remember of the Bush daily news. In other words, Bush wasn't good, but he was no Trump.

[candygirl200413]

Thanks for the history lesson guys! I knew only about Wille Horton (very vaguely) and the horrendous way he and Regan dealt with the AIDS epidemic. 

[Drala]

8 hours ago, Audrey2 said:

I think there are a couple of factors besides this that are playing into people's reactions about Bush. First, he was elected President 30 years ago (inaugurated 1-20-89), and we as a society don't tend to remember things as clearly from 25-30 years ago as we remember and experience things that are current. Second, we've been under the complete poonami that is the Trump administration for almost two years, where the unthinkable becomes reality on a daily basis, so we compare the Trump daily news to what we remember of the Bush daily news. In other words, Bush wasn't good, but he was no Trump.

We only had four years of Bush 41--less time to make a lasting impression. I don't remember Bush 41 nearly as well as I remember Bush 43, but then, I more or less got woke in the early aughts.  I thought Bush 43 was as bad (if not worse) than Nixon, who I remember very well because Viet Nam and Watergate were defining events in my young adult years before family & work took nearly all my attention.   The orange fuck face is so bad, though, that Bush & Nixon begin to look good by comparison.  That's kind of scary, and I don't kid myself with nostalgia about Bush 43 and Nixon.  Many people in the US and abroad died because of their policies.   

One relatively good thing about fuck face's administration is that we haven't gone to war --yet-- unless you count our support of Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen, but that goes back to Obama, so I see that disaster as standard operating procedure for the US global empire.   What concerns me most right now is that fuck face could respond to the pressure of the Mueller investigation by getting us into a war, perhaps with Mexico over control of the border.   That's a bit of a long shot, I know, but things are closing in on him and there's no telling what he'll do as he becomes more consumed by fear of public shaming.  Hopefully he'll keep channeling his aggressive impulses into twitter tantrums and forget about his GI Joe action set.

[TuringMachine]

Bit of  a non sequitur here, but I would like to take a moment to remember the best part of Bush Sr's presidency: quotes from his vice president, Dan Quayle.

I call this one Geography with Dan Quayle:

Quote

Hawaii has always been a very pivotal role in the Pacific. It is in the Pacific. It is a part of the United States that is an island that is right here.

Or how about Dan Quayle, Time Traveler:

Quote

I believe that I've made good judgments in the past, and I think I've made good judgments in the future.

And my personal favorite Know When to Stop Talking:

Quote

[The Holocaust] was an obscene moment in our nation's history. Not our nation's, but in world war two. I mean, we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century, but this century's history.

Video for that one:

Spoiler

 

 

[VelociRapture]

12 hours ago, Audrey2 said:

I think there are a couple of factors besides this that are playing into people's reactions about Bush. First, he was elected President 30 years ago (inaugurated 1-20-89), and we as a society don't tend to remember things as clearly from 25-30 years ago as we remember and experience things that are current. Second, we've been under the complete poonami that is the Trump administration for almost two years, where the unthinkable becomes reality on a daily basis, so we compare the Trump daily news to what we remember of the Bush daily news. In other words, Bush wasn't good, but he was no Trump.

Aw fuck. You mean to say I wasnt born during Bush’s Presidency like I thought, but in the Reagan years instead? Well, now I just feel silly. 

(Spring 1988 baby here. I have no clue why I thought I was born during 41’s presidency. I’d say I need coffee, but I can only drink decaf and that wouldn’t help.)

[hoipolloi]

44 minutes ago, TuringMachine said:

Bit of  a non sequitur here, but I would like to take a moment to remember the best part of Bush Sr's presidency: quotes from his vice president, Dan Quayle.

How could you possibly leave out the infamous potato incident?!?

[Audrey2]

2 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

How could you possibly leave out the infamous potato incident?!?

Yay! Someone else thought of my snarky comment too, that I was afraid was too inappropriate! When I saw the picture of him at the funeral, I wondered if he finally learned how to spell potato?

And while we are on the topic, Dan Quayle...Mike Pence... No good Vice Presidents come from Indiana!

[DomWackTroll]

7 hours ago, Drala said:

 The orange fuck face is so bad, though, that Bush & Nixon begin to look good by comparison. 

Just the fact that they actually read books makes me long for the (not-so) "good ol' days." Pretty sad, I know. 

[GreyhoundFan]

1 hour ago, Audrey2 said:

Yay! Someone else thought of my snarky comment too, that I was afraid was too inappropriate! When I saw the picture of him at the funeral, I wondered if he finally learned how to spell potato?

And while we are on the topic, Dan Quayle...Mike Pence... No good Vice Presidents come from Indiana!

Don't forget his mangling of the NAACP motto, "A mind is a terrible thing to waste". Quayle's version: "What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is."

[TuringMachine]

1 hour ago, Audrey2 said:

Yay! Someone else thought of my snarky comment too, that I was afraid was too inappropriate! When I saw the picture of him at the funeral, I wondered if he finally learned how to spell potato?

And while we are on the topic, Dan Quayle...Mike Pence... No good Vice Presidents come from Indiana!

I always say no good politician comes from Arkansas