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samurai_sarah

Tori Bates - Part 4: Pretty Dresses Hiding Ugly Ideologies

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Giddy
Carm_88

I think Tori had a nice wedding! I’m kinda excited to see the train wreck that Carlin’s wedding may be!

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Oh_Dear!

Lily and Ellie just posted that Tori and Bobby about the honeymoon:

"The newlyweds spent the first two nights in Gatlinburg so they could relax and enjoy the beautiful Smoky Mountains before traveling far. They met up with Gil and Kelly Bates for lunch on Monday so they could hand off the wedding gown and suit, and then they headed to the airport to fly out to California. Nathan Bates' hint about where they are is that they are continuing the winter wonderland theme."

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faraway

Is it crucial for them to be back in the homestead for christmas? If yes, that's quite the quickie honeymoon. How long is a honeymoon for the average fundie? I know some of them did international trips that must have been at least 10 days or so...

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Irene
11 minutes ago, faraway said:

Is it crucial for them to be back in the homestead for christmas? If yes, that's quite the quickie honeymoon. How long is a honeymoon for the average fundie? I know some of them did international trips that must have been at least 10 days or so...

1 day :P

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Jigsaw3

Eh, if they're  going to California that will give them almost a week there before returning. It's not actually that bad for a honeymoon, especially if Tori is going back to Crown in January to finish off her faux-degree. 

I really hope she is going back to college: I hope hope HOPE that the ugly ideology of this cult (nice thread title, by the way) doesn't stop her from finishing, now that she's a married woman. Or is she finished already?

As for the pretty dress, Michael's instagram photo does show that the bodice is lined in the same champagne colour as the skirt, so it really does end up being more cohesive than it might seem from the photos. Too much beading, though, I agree.

 

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llg1234

Today was Tori's 22nd birthday. Hope she's enjoying her honeymoon in CA. I didn't know she used to have freckles, she's always been super cute, it seems.

 

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Wine time!
Jatalie1996

 

3 hours ago, Jigsaw3 said:
I really hope she is going back to college: I hope hope HOPE that the ugly ideology of this cult (nice thread title, by the way) doesn't stop her from finishing, now that she's a married woman.
 

 


iirc, Erin graduated a few months after she got married.

 

Edited by Jatalie1996
Quote formatting

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Thorns
7 hours ago, Jigsaw3 said:

Eh, if they're  going to California that will give them almost a week there before returning. It's not actually that bad for a honeymoon, especially if Tori is going back to Crown in January to finish off her faux-degree. 

Well, she did get her Mrs-degree, didn't se? #missionaccomplished #graduated #withhonors 

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CarrotCake

I just started to really follow the Bates recently but that birthday message is so different then the ones from the Duggars. This one shows Tori's personality instead of a generic 'heart for Jesus'-post.

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SamiKatz
On 21/12/2017 at 4:41 AM, CarrotCake said:

I just started to really follow the Bates recently but that birthday message is so different then the ones from the Duggars. This one shows Tori's personality instead of a generic 'heart for Jesus'-post.

I was just thinking the Duggars should have Kelly Jo write the birthday messages for the Duggar kids.  Way better than the template messages the D's write.

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neurogirl

@llg1234 In response to Trace's degree at Crown, it's studying the Bible and theology in a fundie-approved away, with I suspect, a LARGE dash of fundie-approved "getting to know" the opposite sex. Courtship market under the guise of education. 

(though its better than nothing, especially for the ladies like Erin and Carlin and Josie with marketable skills)

But in detail, it's probably the Foundation for Christian Life Certificate which has two semesters on old/new testaments, biblical history and geography, creation science, baptist history and doctrine, and evangelism/missioning. 

http://thecrowncollege.edu/academics/christian-life-certificate/

Edited by neurogirl

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Casserole
On 12/21/2017 at 4:41 AM, CarrotCake said:

I just started to really follow the Bates recently but that birthday message is so different then the ones from the Duggars. This one shows Tori's personality instead of a generic 'heart for Jesus'-post.

Michelle Duggar only cares about babies; her current infant and the next one she can fill her uterus with. Beyond that, she's not really interested in her kids and doesn't seem to know them/their interests well so all of her birthday posts seem generic. Kelly Bates may know her adult children well and their personalities, but she did not care about her babies. They were assigned a buddy while still in the womb and handed off immediately at birth for one of her daughters to raise. Both MD and KJB are shitty mothers, but one is capable of writing more personalized birthday messages. 

I still wouldn't want either of them as a mother. 

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Hisey
3 hours ago, Casserole said:

Michelle Duggar only cares about babies; her current infant and the next one she can fill her uterus with. Beyond that, she's not really interested in her kids and doesn't seem to know them/their interests well so all of her birthday posts seem generic. Kelly Bates may know her adult children well and their personalities, but she did not care about her babies. They were assigned a buddy while still in the womb and handed off immediately at birth for one of her daughters to raise. Both MD and KJB are shitty mothers, but one is capable of writing more personalized birthday messages. 

I still wouldn't want either of them as a mother. 

I agree that passing off a baby to an older sister is wrong. However, I don't think that means she didn't care about them. How can we know if she cared about them or not? I suspect she cared about her babies but it was easier to let an older daughter do the heavy lifting, particularly since Kelly lived in a culture that said this was OK. Doesn't mean she didn't care, just meant she was taking the easy road.

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llg1234
1 hour ago, Hisey said:

I agree that passing off a baby to an older sister is wrong. However, I don't think that means she didn't care about them. How can we know if she cared about them or not? I suspect she cared about her babies but it was easier to let an older daughter do the heavy lifting, particularly since Kelly lived in a culture that said this was OK. Doesn't mean she didn't care, just meant she was taking the easy road.

Kelly AND Gil chose the live in that in environment though, they weren't raised quiverfull. It's not their culture, it was their choice and they're subjecting their kids to it. If they really cared about their children, they wouldn't have tried to have as many as possible, even at the expense of their living kids' health (physical, mental, emotional).

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Hisey
19 hours ago, llg1234 said:

Kelly AND Gil chose the live in that in environment though, they weren't raised quiverfull. It's not their culture, it was their choice and they're subjecting their kids to it. If they really cared about their children, they wouldn't have tried to have as many as possible, even at the expense of their living kids' health (physical, mental, emotional).

100% agree with you. However, I don't think Gil and Kelly consciously believe the environment is hurtful to their kids. I think they believe the opposite, actually.

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HereticHick
On 12/22/2017 at 1:14 PM, neurogirl said:

@llg1234 In response to Trace's degree at Crown, it's studying the Bible and theology in a fundie-approved away, with I suspect, a LARGE dash of fundie-approved "getting to know" the opposite sex. Courtship market under the guise of education. 

(though its better than nothing, especially for the ladies like Erin and Carlin and Josie with marketable skills)

But in detail, it's probably the Foundation for Christian Life Certificate which has two semesters on old/new testaments, biblical history and geography, creation science, baptist history and doctrine, and evangelism/missioning. 

http://thecrowncollege.edu/academics/christian-life-certificate/

I believe Lawson got one of these as well. And this is what we assume Joe Duggar did in his year at Crown

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JermajestyDuggar
15 hours ago, Hisey said:

100% agree with you. However, I don't think Gil and Kelly consciously believe the environment is hurtful to their kids. I think they believe the opposite, actually.

I totally agree. I actually cannot say that Gil and Kelly don't care about their kids. I would guess they do care about them and live them. Caring and loving a child doesn't stop parents from abusing or neglecting them. 

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BeccaGrim

I wounder sometimes what was said at the time by, as they call them, Jane-Jane and Papa Bill, and Kelly's family.  Adults can make their own decisions on things but man if my husband and I had suddenly done this huge shift in ideology, there would have been massive discussions. 

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JermajestyDuggar
29 minutes ago, BeccaGrim said:

I wounder sometimes what was said at the time by, as they call them, Jane-Jane and Papa Bill, and Kelly's family.  Adults can make their own decisions on things but man if my husband and I had suddenly done this huge shift in ideology, there would have been massive discussions. 

I'm sure there were discussions. Gil's parents seem outspoken. Just like I'm sure Jimmy Lee Duggar expressed his opinion multiple times to JB. But they are still adults and can make their own decisions. The catch is that even if they feel so completely against the lifestyle, they would probably feel compelled to stay in the lives of their grandchildren. Because they can still try to protect them if they are still in their lives. That's what I would do if my adult children made life choices I didn't agree with. Because I would want to be there for my grandkids. 

I would bet all the grandparents have given them financial help at some point. The Bates, Duggar, Rodrigues, and Anderson grandparents have probably given their adult kids money because it would benefit the children. Along with physical help as well. 

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candygirl200413

I'll never forget when the family went to Gil's parents house and Mama Jane was just SO over having all the kids over and making some type of statement on how they had way too many kids.I think the duggars have had success with Jimboob's mom but I wonder if Gil or Kelly tried to convert their siblings, they'd have to right?

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JordynDarby5
Just now, candygirl200413 said:

I'll never forget when the family went to Gil's parents house and Mama Jane was just SO over having all the kids over and making some type of statement on how they had way too many kids.I think the duggars have had success with Jimboob's mom but I wonder if Gil or Kelly tried to convert their siblings, they'd have to right?

Seeing how the kids behaved in their house I'd be over them too. Same at Alyssa's. God forbid Gil and Kelly teach their kids how to behave in other people's homes. The way they giggled over how their kids break the hammock every time they visit. That's not cute or adorable.

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JermajestyDuggar

We broke my grandparent's hammock once. We were so scared to tell them because we felt guilty. Our grandparents never punished us though. They always left it to our parents. Probably because they knew our parents didn't put up with that kind of crap. 

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TShirtsLongSkirts

I broke one of my great-auntie's dollhouse furniture pieces when I was around 7 or 8. We didn't see her often because we were visiting from across the country so didn't know how she would react. I was absolutely devastated and went in crying with this teeny tiny chair broken in half. She gave me a big hug and said "it's just a thing! Things don't matter, people matter!" and I felt much better and always remembered how kind she was. 

That said if I (or my parents) had been nonchalant or dismissive about it, she might not have been as kind! 

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Depressed
formergothardite

I'm sure fundies like Gil and Kelly, Jim Bob and Michelle care for their children, but that doesn't always mean that they treat them right. I do think Kelly appears to like her children more as they age, she has also seemed to put more effort into treating them like individuals since they rebranded. The Kelly of years ago who admitted that she struggled to list her children's names seems to be gone.*

*No it wasn't a joke, though they did it again in a joking way in one of their shows. This was back when they were just on the Duggar show. A reporter asked Kelly to list her children and she said she couldn't, but Gil could. Gil said he could as long as it was in birth order. 

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