I wanted to be Michelle Duggar...

[The Archivist]

I'm not even Christian, and I STILL kind of want to be Michelle Duggar.

Pardon my ignorance, but could someone point out specifically some of the unsavory things about the Duggars? I know some of their beliefs are related to racism, homophobia, etc. But is there anything else I should know about the family in particular (other than all is probably not what it seems?)

Any concrete sources? Links, stories, whatever you've got.

[lilwriter85]

Rachel333 posted on the old FJ about her experiences with the family and her observations with the family

http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/6510/M ... ars?page=1

Also I think many people tend to be annoyed with the Duggars particularly Michelle because she often presents herself as Super Mom when in reality she isn't.

All mothers have their flaws and sometimes with Michelle it seems to me that she thinks she has no flaws.

I haven't been on FJ that long and so maybe some of the members might have some stories or sources about the Duggars. I don't think they are horrible people but I don't find them to be inspirational as some of their fans have make them out to be.

[Patsy]

I don't think either of them is the devil incarnate, and they have good moments. But I find both parents personally irritating in different ways that you can see in the show itself, without digging. Example: Michelle's baby voice, her strained, fake laugh - and the fact that those things are to make everything cutesy and nice, even when sometimes things just aren't. Jim Bob's pontificating when he doesn't understand what he's talking about. Argh.

I think Jim Bob adores Michelle, but he sees his sons as rivals in many ways. I think he often really does want to shoot them down. But it's fun, guys, it's fun! hahaha. (That being said I'm sure he is often a very encouraging father to ALL of his children.) I think Michelle does love her children, but she honestly doesn't seem to know the younger ones, to the point that she's made statements about how weird it was to be alone with her newborn ... uhhhhm? She passes babies on to their buddies and I really do think she has a creepy connection to pregnancy and being in the spotlight. And of course, both of them have had the younger brood at the expense of the older kids, and sold out all of them.

[homeschoolmomma1]

lilwriter85 Very interesting

No I didn't want Michelle's hair haha

They just seemed so... happy- Personally I think they were better in the specials because at least they were more themselves - if that makes sense. I had a rough childhood so I think that is why I wanted to be like them

[MerryHappy]

I grew up in the cult they belong to and believe me, you made the right choice to walk away.

[marmalade]

Welcome homeschoolmama1. Good to see some new TWOP blood coming over here (I'm Pauline "over there").

Thanks for sharing about Sammons. You had me LMAO with Smuggar's slothfulness. I think the guy needs to get his thyroid checked. I've never seen a young man blow up so huge, so quickly. The bloated face is one of the symptoms of hypothyroidism.

[homeschoolmomma1]

Welcome homeschoolmama1. Good to see some new TWOP blood coming over here (I'm Pauline "over there").

Thanks for sharing about Sammons. You had me LMAO with Smuggar's slothfulness. I think the guy needs to get his thyroid checked. I've never seen a young man blow up so huge, so quickly. The bloated face is one of the symptoms of hypothyroidism.

Hi paulie!

I love TWOP too but I have to be so careful of my grammer :)

[darkplumaged]

I've been guilty of wanting to be--or, more often, be like--many different people, but Michelle has never been one of them... if for no other reason (and there are zillions of reasons!) than she just doesn't seem very intelligent. She comes off as simple-minded and gullible, and I couldn't live like that.

[bananacat]

Welcome homeschoolmama1. Good to see some new TWOP blood coming over here (I'm Pauline "over there").

Thanks for sharing about Sammons. You had me LMAO with Smuggar's slothfulness. I think the guy needs to get his thyroid checked. I've never seen a young man blow up so huge, so quickly. The bloated face is one of the symptoms of hypothyroidism.

I completely agree. I have hypothyroidism and if it's not managed well, I can easily gain 30 pounds in 2 months. For most people, it's just not possible to gain that much weight through overeating alone. Most people who are overweight have been that way for a very long time, and it has crept on relatively slowly. It's not the weight that makes me suspicious, but the change in weight. When my thyroid medication is on track, I can binge eat for weeks and when I finally step on the scale, my weight has either remained the same or just gone up one or two pounds. Josh is younger than I am so he should have a steadier weight too. But I get the feeling that fundies don't really trust medicine and doctors, and he'll try to pray away the condition rather than take medication for it (even though it has very few side effects because it's just a chemical that your body already makes, and it's also cheap and generic). I also suspect that he'll get a lot of guilt and shaming about his weight in terms of just self-control, even though there must be more to it than that.

[lilwriter85]

I've been guilty of wanting to be--or, more often, be like--many different people, but Michelle has never been one of them... if for no other reason (and there are zillions of reasons!) than she just doesn't seem very intelligent. She comes off as simple-minded and gullible, and I couldn't live like that.

I agree Michelle does come off simple minded and gullible. But sometimes I think she plays that up for the cameras that way people will think she is a sweet Christian mom who can do wrong and at times her lack of intelligence is shown.

[Lillybee]

I'm not even Christian, and I STILL kind of want to be Michelle Duggar.

Pardon my ignorance, but could someone point out specifically some of the unsavory things about the Duggars? I know some of their beliefs are related to racism, homophobia, etc. But is there anything else I should know about the family in particular (other than all is probably not what it seems?)

Any concrete sources? Links, stories, whatever you've got.

My reason for being disturbed with the Duggars is their belief in Dominionism, a belief system that wants to return our country to biblical principles. That really scares me since there are many politicians who also believe in it. Think Michele Bachman and Christine O'Connell.

Another thing that bothers me is that in there early blogs they posted a link to Michael Pearl's book TO TRAIN UP A CHILD. This book advises beating your children with plumbing line and some parents following this method of child training have caused the death of some children. Google Lydia Schatz.

[Soldier of the One]

Welcome aboard, homeschoolmomma1! I also look forward about hearing your story :)

Enjoy FJ!

[apple1]

I'm not even Christian, and I STILL kind of want to be Michelle Duggar.

Pardon my ignorance, but could someone point out specifically some of the unsavory things about the Duggars? I know some of their beliefs are related to racism, homophobia, etc. But is there anything else I should know about the family in particular (other than all is probably not what it seems?)

Any concrete sources? Links, stories, whatever you've got.

FJ is absolutely full of discussions about the unsavory things about the Duggars. Assuming this is a sincere question, if you search you can read about it for days.

For me, just a starter list would be the lack of true caring about the kids they already have (illustrated particularly well by their handling of the whole Josie situation), the pawning off of the younger kids on the older kids, the hypocrisy of all their statements about money management while living off TLC, the whole pimping their family out on TLC for anything and everything that keeps the money train going, the STUPIDITY of continuing to try to have even MORE kids, the phoniness of the whole presentation including the idea that being a Christian family means there are no problems, the "hiding" from the public the portions of their belief system that are not likely to be accepted by the masses (a definite Gothard thing, among others), the phoniness of the benevolent dictator JimBob, the phoniness of the wonderfully submissive Michelle, the whole Gothard connection, the rigid male vs. female roles inflicted on the kids, blanket training, the whole pimping out on TV the birth of the grandchild...

I guess you get the drift.

[lilwriter85]

FJ is absolutely full of discussions about the unsavory things about the Duggars. Assuming this is a sincere question, if you search you can read about it for days.

For me, just a starter list would be the lack of true caring about the kids they already have (illustrated particularly well by their handling of the whole Josie situation), the pawning off of the younger kids on the older kids, the hypocrisy of all their statements about money management while living off TLC, the whole pimping their family out on TLC for anything and everything that keeps the money train going, the STUPIDITY of continuing to try to have even MORE kids, the phoniness of the whole presentation including the idea that being a Christian family means there are no problems, the "hiding" from the public the portions of their belief system that are not likely to be accepted by the masses (a definite Gothard thing, among others), the phoniness of the benevolent dictator JimBob, the phoniness of the wonderfully submissive Michelle, the whole Gothard connection, the rigid male vs. female roles inflicted on the kids, blanket training, the whole pimping out on TV the birth of the grandchild...

I guess you get the drift.

I agree with a lot of those things. Back when I watched their specials and the first season of the show, the buddy system the Duggars used slowly started to annoy me and once I started finding out more stuff online about the family, I realized how much TLC spins them into this "ultra happy Christian family with no flaws." I do find the Duggars to be hypocrites for different reasons. I think they have managed money well but we all know if TLC wasn't in the picture they wouldn't be taking vacations or and they probably wouldn't have certain things in the house. I also hate TLC has made it seem as if Smuggar is completely independent 23-year old business man who owns a home and car lots. The car lot properties belong to Jim Bob and the rental house belongs to Mary. Smuggar might be paying rent on those, but I wish TLC would be honest and admit that Michelle and JimBob are still helping him out.

TLC has managed to hide other things from the audience like you mentioned. The episodes have been carefully edited to not reveal some of the Duggars' beliefs or associations with certain people or organizations. Some people actually believe that the episodes they watch are the best representation of the Duggars when those episodes aren't the best representation. On the show the Duggars' true beliefs on women staying home and not working have never been aired on the show. TLC knows that if JimBob or someone else on the show said that women shouldn't work outside the home, they would lose some viewers. Many viewers of the show don't watch the shows as fans, they watch the show as a case study in fundies. The viewers that do like the Duggars aren't a huge number. Some of the actual Duggar fans are pretty naive about the family because they either lack a deep knowledge of fundies or a deep knowledge of the reality TV show business.

[dcmhejbl62]

Though I don't agree with their religion or lifestyle, I always liked the Duggars. I do feel they manage to set the Koolaid down when it violates their own sensibilities and make their own decisions about a few things, ie taking Michelle to the hospital and delivering Josie early (apparently many fundies would have "let God's will be done," even if it cost Michelle her life). I do sense more love there than in a lot of QF / ATI families, and a strong sense that they have to parent by example, instead of enforce a list of different, stricter rules for the kids.

My one concern was the effect of the TV show on the kids. I had hoped JB was just naive, not fame- and money-hungry, and would stop after a few seasons when he realized what a farce the whole thing was, but obviously that has not been the case. I still like them, and they aren't much different than most families in that regard, I suppose, but I've lost some respect. Their new god is TLC and their paycheck, and some of those children have literally spent their whole lives under the schedule and expectations of a reality show, having to learn things like the difference between "real honesty" and "tv honesty".

And on that note, this is REALLY annoying me: "We leave the number of children up to God." Baloney. I never bought that, because they won't officially identify as QF, and JB always answers the "more?" question with "I leave that up to Michelle," who then spouts Line #1. After Josie, when everyone kept complaining about them going for #20, I knew sure as I'm sitting here they wouldn't...like I said, they seem perfectly capable of putting down the Koolaid when they need to, and they were quite aware of Josie's precarious medical condition and increased needs, at least as a baby. So guess what? Here we are a year and a half later, super-fertile Michelle still isn't pregnant.

Of COURSE she isn't. Because that's the responsible thing to do, under the circumstances. So why not just be honest, or at least Christian-honest? "We'd love more, but we felt we needed to give mom and baby time to heal and recover..." or "We'd love more, but after much prayer and fasting, we heard God tell us we needed to wait and be faithful, and he'd let us know the proper time..."

Out of all the things they've done, this probably pisses me off the most. People who don't have enough brains to just sip the Koolaid, who go through something similar, are going to keep avoiding the birth control, wrongly using JB and Michelle as their example, and wind up pregnant again.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

1. Praying for money. God knows our needs--why do we bored him to death with requests? I'm just saying....lol...This was hot when the "Prayer of Jabez" was all the rage in Churches.

2. Whether they "paid" for Josie's care or are in debt. They do have some insurance--it paid at least some of the bill. I'm sure it was also cut down as it would often be for anyone who negotiates without having/having enough insurance. They also plugged the hospital constantly on the show and did the fund raiser. Whether they still "owe" on Josie....we don't know. My guess is they owe zero. Jim-Bob is a politician . He's very savvy about digging dirt. And he'd negotiate the price of a pack of gum--and likely get a decent deal. He may seem stupid, but he's not on that type thing.

3. ATI--they suck you in with the whole "perfect family" thing. They use Amway-style lifestyle evangelism techniques--reach out to a family, get to know them, become good friends then sock it to 'em and get them to sign on the line and send in the check.

4. I think the Duggars are sincere in wanting to help people. I think they also, at this point, are kidding themselves that the show is not affecting them. It is. Clothes--who cares? The kids have seen what's out there......Just like the folks in East Germany when they were able to get European tv and see how the rest were living, so too the Duggar kids. Even Josh and Anna--it's more than a having a pet or seeming to let Mac pants when no one is around [Anna's Mom was on the beach in a normal, if very dated "cover up" so.....]

[The Archivist]

I guess you get the drift.

Yes, I get the drift, and I was more or less aware of the issues that are apparent from their family life as shown on TV and their theological underpinnings, or whatever you want to call them. I was just curious if there were specific scandals or first-hand accounts of further things I was unaware of. Thanks for giving the laundry list, however.

And of course my question was sincere.