Random S'Morton hilarity

[PBrooke]

It's "Captain", so it must be dignified!

http://www.arcamax.com/religionandspiri ... 060-159932

Ever wonder what it's like to be at one of these retreats? Now you don't have to! Here's some audio from a 2009 Morton retreat: http://www.hagenconsultingservices.com/ ... athora.htm

Note: i haven't listened to it, but I'm sure it'll be cringeworthy.

I stumbled across these links by googling the name of the farm (to get to their New Year's blog, but that's another story); anyway, it would appear that Rachel's blogger account now subscribes to a private 'Daily Herald' blog, also with the name of the farm. I suspect that's why the Mortons haven't updated as much recently.

EDIT: Holy cow, around 9 minutes in on Morton's sermon about children they tackle the spanking issue. Yikes.

[clibbyjo]

I made it through about 1 minute because I wanted to hear the voice, it is very southern and every breathe is recorded which makes me want to start counting them over listening.

[Kitty]

The part about spanking is just... ugh. He sounds like one of those stupid fucking rednecks who's always all "When I was a kid, I had to say yes ma'am and no sir, and my parents smacked me for everything, and dammit I turned out just fine!" when they're fucking REDNECKS who graduated high school by the skin of their teeth. Holy shit. Obviously spanking didn't work on Cleveland at all, because 15 minutes after the spanking he went right back to doing what he was doing!

How the hell does a kid manage to turn the water on DOWN A LAUNDRY CHUTE? I've never lived in a building with a laundry chute, but I always thought they were pretty far away from water sources like sinks. Did Cleveland have a hose or something? WTF? Why not redirect him first? JFC...

[PBrooke]

I'm listening with my mouth hanging open. Apparently Michael came up through the government schools, the humanistic influences, so he's too politically correct and accepting of other people in public... but his sons are not afraid to tell it like it is. And he's taught his kids to just get away from people who don't believe the right things. I can't imagine what monsters he's created.

There's also a line in there about him cautioning his wife when she goes to the library book sales, to make sure she didn't bring home any abominations, that made me lol.

[PBrooke]

OMG. Michael Jr. had a plan to go to Africa when he turned 18, but shortly before Michael Sr realized that the Bible says "Only for this purpose (marriage) shall a son leave his parents," and told Michael Jr. he shouldn't go. Jr. fasted in the woods for three days and eventually decided he agreed and wouldn't go. Poor guy. At 18 they started paying them, but then the guys decided to give their income back to the family, until they got married.

[hoipolloi]

So this Michael Morton would be Darthy's father, right? If so, it sure looks like little Enoch will be getting beaten with the rod before too long.

Sorry for those of you who have Darthy/Noah as your pet fundies, but there's no way to put pretty on this shite.

[demgirl]

Pretty much confirms what I and others have said before about the Mortons. They can dress it up pretty and say it in flowery words, but they are, at their hearts, pretty much the same as all of the fundies we don't give any breaks. Actually, in some ways, I have more respect for their friends and relatives who are willing to lay out their beliefs, than I do for the Mortons who are more circumspect about them.

But in a bigger way, I have no respect for any of them, so...

[PBrooke]

Bleh, so now the thread title seems completely inappropriate.

This "pet fundie" thing is getting obnoxious, btw. I haven't read one thread about D&N in some time that didn't have someone who felt the need to announce that they weren't about to be duped by the sweetness and light of the Sanders and Mortons. I don't recall reading that in threads about Meredith, for example. For another thing, I would assume most FJ'ers are fully aware of the distasteful views that VF'ers hold; it's probably partly what brought us to FJ in the first place. I don't think anyone ever thought that these families weren't probably beaten within an inch of their lives at some point (well, at least I didn't, but maybe that's because it's not uncommon in the South, much less evangelical communities. Doesn't make it any less reprehensible, but less surprising).

I don't think anyone "likes" Papas Morton or Smith; I find the Cap'n, in particular, ridiculous. But I think I keep reading because I have hope that the next generation WILL break free of their "training" and live their own lives. Yes, they've been brainwashed; but look at the members of FJ who broke out of patriarchy, or Razing Ruth or that member who joined just recently. I have to have hope that the couples who appear to genuinely love each other will find their own way out. The supposed dropout rate of programs like ATI is pretty high; if it's even one in ten (though I think it might be higher) well, that's at least one in each of the S'morton families. That's more than one in the Duggar or Bates families. Who doesn't want to root for them?

[Witsec1]

I can't remember - is this family related to the vitafamiliae mom?

[demgirl]

I think this is the relationship:

Dorothy (Darthy) Morton married Noah Sanders

Noah Sanders is the step-brother (or 1/2 brother?) of vitafamiliae lady.

[onlyorganic]

Bleh, so now the thread title seems completely inappropriate.

This "pet fundie" thing is getting obnoxious, btw. I haven't read one thread about D&N in some time that didn't have someone who felt the need to announce that they weren't about to be duped by the sweetness and light of the Sanders and Mortons.

As someone who's said I have a sweet spot for N&D, I'll respond that this is honestly the first time I've heard about the views on child training. I knew about the Pearls, but I've never studied them and I honestly haven't seen anything on the Morton or Sanders blogs speaking outright to their views regarding discipling (if they were there I skipped over). I got into "fundie-watching" because I found it baffling that women could live their lives honestly believing that they belonged at home and that their only goal was to marry and have Christian baybees whom they homeschool. It was mind-boggling. It was humorous to come home from a long, full day at work getting yelled at by customers only to read about some SAHD talking about how she made pie and fed the chickens. A big part of me was jealous that they piddled away the day doing Titus 2 things while I was workin' for a livin'.

I find N&D sweet because they seem genuinely "in love", not like the forced courtship and engagement photos and the "yay, I'm not single anymore" posts from other SAHD's finally realizing their life dream. It was scary to me to hear about "Daddy releasing Noah" and the fact that as soon as Darth was a married woman they were trying for a baybee. I think someone said in a different thread that the S'mortons are the worst kind of fundies... they come across as sweet and appealing but hold the same dangerous views about where women belong and how children should be raised that someone as outright evil as PP holds. Hearing these people speak is humbling because I guess when I see the S'mortons it's hard to see past the bright-eyed babies and organic chickens to see the real beliefs they hold.

[PBrooke]

That's an interesting perspective. I guess I'm able to clearly separate the teachings of the older generation from the potential of the younger kids; I didn't honestly consider that anyone might be duped.

Just a random thought: my brother-in-law was raised in one ofthose families where you go choose your own switch from the tree. I know that practice is often linked to the black community, due to the routines of a few famous comedians, but he was white, just southern. He also attended catholic school where he had corporal discipline from nuns. Anyway, he's got two kids and they are not disciplined in a physical way. Just mentioning that there's always hope for the next generation, as unlikely as it seems.

[dramallama]

I don't recall reading that in threads about Meredith, for example.

*waves* I did! I also really do not get the Meredith love around here any more than I get the Sanders/Morton love.

It's not that I'm not rooting for them to break away - I wish they all would and I hope they do - but the "Noah and Darthy look so sweet and nice, awwww! Yay more babies! Yay Mortons/Sanders!" etc posts rub me the wrong way, because they do give off the impression that people think that because they look nice and had a slightly-less-fucked-up-than-some-others courtship/wedding, that means they must not beat their kids or hold the same screwy and disgusting views that Kelly from GC and others get eviscerated for around here, and they're surely going to break away from VF and the rest of it. Maybe you weren't fooled, and that's great, but some posts I've read do give me the impression that their carefully-constructed facade is effective sometimes. I hope they do break away. I just don't see anything to indicate that at this point.

Maybe you're just more optimistic than I am. I'll believe it when I see it.

[demgirl]

Sure, there's hope for the next generation. I hope they all break away and find their own paths that don't involve the draconian and suppresive measures of their parents. But once they are married and producing their own offspring, my sympathy drops quite quickly, especially if there is no outward sign of breaking from the way that they were raised with their own children. For all I know, Darthy and Noah have totally turned away from how they were raised, but I certainly see no outward sign of it.

But my concern with people like the Mortons (and by the Mortons, I mean the main family blog more...) is that, like the Duggars, they make fundamentalism and extremism look fluffy, cute and fun and cover up their extreme beliefs with pretty pictures. I think it's dangerous and I think it's how people get sucked into these movements. LIke - "Oh! Look at the Mortons! They look so happy and like they love each other and take such pretty pictures! I wish my family were like them -- maybe if I used their child rearing methods, it would be!"

I don't know... the Mortons lost me when they posted on the hurricane and it was all, "Oh, dear! Poor Kelly Crawford!" mostly and little thought for others who weren't part of their special group. It got me thinking, because until then I had been all, "Aw. The Mortons. They're cute. They look like a happy family." I had even defended them on FJ as the best of a bad group. But I went back through old postings and really looked at the rare instances that they expressed their true beliefs, and I found the same ugliness of Generation Cedar under all that prettiness.

Plus, confederate flag loving is always a fail.

Edited for Non-TSOTDRT grammar fail.

[Karsaroni]

OMG. Michael Jr. had a plan to go to Africa when he turned 18, but shortly before Michael Sr realized that the Bible says "Only for this purpose (marriage) shall a son leave his parents," and told Michael Jr. he shouldn't go. Jr. fasted in the woods for three days and eventually decided he agreed and wouldn't go. Poor guy. At 18 they started paying them, but then the guys decided to give their income back to the family, until they got married.

Well, this definitely explains why the F Michael Jr is so miserable looking in every single picture he's in. I would be too! Did they say WHY he wanted to go to Africa? I'm assuming for some other reason (like missionary) other than hunting anaconda's like Dougie & Co (all of whom Mr. Morton Sr. seems to support by the way), so I can't see why there would be any great reason he couldn't. He's a freaking adult!! And his father guilted him into staying by using the Bible as his weapon. Like no son in the Bible left his parents other than to marry?! God, these people are whacked out of their minds!!

[Karsaroni]

I will say, in between all of the boring stuff they talk about there are some good nuggets of info. Like Michael Sr's recanting of his girlfriends and drinking times when he was in high school. So odd how some folks can just go from that to such legalistic extremes in religion. And drag their families down with them.

But the singing... UN.BEAR.ABLE.

[Angri-la]

I've posted negative stuff about Meredith and other "pet fundies". Under the ribbons and bows of Darth and Noah, etc., is still the same old fundie doctrine. Sure Meredith and Darth got to marry men they "love", and I do have hope they will break away, but I won't believe it until I see it, and honeymoon babies don't give me hope that change is imminent.

If they believe I am evil because I work outside the home and my husband is our child's primary caregiver, or they think my gay friends are abominatins, they are not my kind. Well, except to snark on. Don't tell me to leave a fundie alone because YOU think they're sweet. This isn't a "praise the fundies you think are cute, but snark on the less adorable ones" site, no? If it is, I will stay away from certain threads.

Getting off my soapbox.

Edited because phone isn't cooperating.

[fundiefan]

Dorothy may love Noah now, but when they married they certainly didn't know each other enough to be in love. Noah was released to find a wife, his sisters suggested Dorothy, whom he knew because of the relationship with the Morton's but had never said more than Hi or Bye (in five years? really?), they spent two chaperoned days together then got engaged. Two months later, they were married. That's not love. That's playing by the rules laid out by both of their dad's. I think Dorothy clings to Noah in an almost creepy way. She is rarely seen without gripping him. Not just touching, but gripping.

Both families are into Vision Forum and Scott Brown crap. Both hang with the MacDonald's.

They all dress themselves up to look pretty and wear giant bows, but they are, in fact, just as misguided and religiously fucked up as the rest of them.

[buttercup]

I will say, I really doubt that Dorothy and Noah had such little interaction. I thought that was emphasized in the courtship story to make it seem more extreme. I mean, the girls in the families were very close, I think they at least knew more about each other and probably had more personal interaction than the courtship story implied.

But, maybe I'm wrong. Either way, there are things about the S'morton lifestyle, as portrayed through their blogs, that I enjoy. However, I agree that it just makes them more "dangerous" in a way - honestly, I can't imagine reading the Maxwell blog and developing a burning desire to live their life. But, with the S'Mortons, it's easy to get lulled into "Oh, how nice.. living on a farm, sisters are all bff, really fun family game nights and outdoor playing.." and forget that some of the principles they live by are so hate filled.

[PBrooke]

Figured out how Cleve managed to get water running down the laundry chute. Apparently their giant house was an old house, moved to their land, where they added the second floor. He said they lived in the attic for two years, when they had eight or nine kids. They had a woodburning stove in the attic, all the kids were on cots... and they ran a hose upstairs for the water.

I have long believed that the Dorothy/Noah story was "spun" to fit the VF ideal. All those girls they "fellowship" with and everyone immediately goes for Dorothy? I think there was some pre-existing chemistry there, but of course no one would ever talk about it publicly. But at any rate, I am a firm believer that no matter what strict rules and regulations you impose, humans are humans and there's lust and flirting, even if it doesn't look like what we're used to.

[onlyorganic]

Dorothy may love Noah now, but when they married they certainly didn't know each other enough to be in love. Noah was released to find a wife, his sisters suggested Dorothy, whom he knew because of the relationship with the Morton's but had never said more than Hi or Bye (in five years? really?), they spent two chaperoned days together then got engaged. Two months later, they were married. That's not love. That's playing by the rules laid out by both of their dad's. I think Dorothy clings to Noah in an almost creepy way. She is rarely seen without gripping him. Not just touching, but gripping.

Both families are into Vision Forum and Scott Brown crap. Both hang with the MacDonald's.

They all dress themselves up to look pretty and wear giant bows, but they are, in fact, just as misguided and religiously fucked up as the rest of them.

Yikes. Okay, after just noticing the leash in the old Sanders' photos I will comment that you are all really opening my eyes. I went back and looked at some of the more recent photos and yeah, it does look a bit odd how D is constantly hanging on Noah. I think they posted a photo awhile back where it said something like "this was the first time N&D had been apart for more than a few hours". Because of the circle they run in, I'm sure D probably had a hunch N would be one of guys her dad would consider as a suitor. I'm so glad my own family didn't follow a courtship model. Just thinking of the young men my own father would have suggested makes me a little ill.

[PBrooke]

Weird: when the Mortons were living in their attic, building on to the house, they apparently got investigated by some government agency (can't tell what he's saying, I know it wasn't called CPS back then anyway). The person apparently came out and "the Lord took care of that" and "they figured out we weren't beating our kids or anything." But... haven't we established that they were? 'Course, again, in the South (at least at that time, not sure about now) there is a culture that' s more lenient about what constitutes spanking vs. beating - even when you're using a switch off a tree.

[fundiefan]

Oh, I don't doubt there was way more between Dorothy & Noah than the story states. There is no way they didn't interact in five years of the families being together every other month. Hell, half the Morton's helped build the Sanders home, and spent weeks in either RV's or even renting near by condo's so they could bring their wives & kids (Wesley & Michael). Noah was a groomsman in at least Michael's wedding. They travel to the same conferences and, well, there is a long, in depth history between the two families and I think it's impossible for Noah to never have interacted with Dorothy other than common greetings.

I just think that the way they tell the story - to fit their ideals - doesn't do them or their courtship ideals any favors. Because them actually knowing each other is a way better testament for love than being strangers who needed less than three days to decide to marry. But, while I believe they knew more of each other than claim, I don't think they knew each other enough to be 'in love' when they married. Even the interactions I think existed that go beyond their claims would have been strictly guarded and controlled by their families.

I also believe that the pretty families know exactly what they're doing. They're selling their beliefs and they know you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. That's something the Maxwells and Andersons haven't figured out yet. People get sucked in to the appealing, not the ugly. The pretty families are proclaiming "Look at us! Look how wonderful, fun, joyful...blah, blah, blah our life is! Look how perfect everythiing is because of our god and our beliefs. Come to our side and you, too, can be a perfect family with perfect friends and perfect ways of making a living that don't involve education or the ebil corporate world".

*Edited for bad spelling

[SimplyMe]

Oh my... have you guys watched the betrothal videos on the Smith's biblical betrothal website (training videos for biblical betrothal). Talk about hilarity-- holy cow, I've never seen anything so funny as the second one. I'm watching it right now. Comedy goldmine. :-)

I don't know how to break this link, so please copy and paste it into your browser!

http://74.200.252.199/E6_4/PAGE_Betroth ... HlMblFmAAA

[PBrooke]

I agree. Those videos are why I find Papa Smith so ridiculous. My personal favorite is the Katie birth story video, though, because her voice is just so much different than I would have imagined, and there's just something sort of ridiculous about a first-time mother giving out all this advice. I sort of want them to do another birth series with all the S'Mortons now, see what Katie says now, vs what Rachel might say, etc.