Pluto

[Snarkylark]

What do you all think of New Horizons landing on Pluto? Do you think space exploration is a wise use of billions of dollars? What do you think they are hoping to discover and why? I'm curious because I don't follow it very closely but it just seems like a lot of money and for what?

[littlemommy]

I think it's great. If humans stop being curious and trying to expand our knowledge then there really isn't much point to going on.

[FakePigtails]

It didn't actually land on Pluto . . . but here's some good information on the reasons behind the mission: http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/Pluto/Why-Pluto.php

[sparkles]

I've been a space geek ever since I was a kid and frankly, I'd gladly pay more in taxes if I knew for certain it would be funneled into space exploration. There's so much to be learned and to choose to venture no further than our own backyard is to stagnate and die. Also, I simply don't accept that, out of the entire universe, we're IT—fundies be damned.

My biggest regret is that I was born too soon, before traveling between worlds and galaxies becomes as easy as driving in your car.

[VelociRapture]

I'd rather have billions devoted to space research than millions go missing in the Defense budget every year. . . and yes, the United States military budget is so bloated that huge amounts of money actually do just go missing on a regular basis. But that's another story entirely. The Government wastes money on a ton of stuff - I don't classify scientific research as being a waste.

As FakePigtails said, the craft did not land on Pluto; this is important since it means the craft could continue on and explore other areas of space. The link she provided has a lot of excellent information that can answer your questions as to why the mission is happening. I highly recommend taking a look through it.

It didn't actually land on Pluto . . . but here's some good information on the reasons behind the mission: http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/Pluto/Why-Pluto.php

Thanks for the information! :D

[Snarkylark]

Yes, I read it. Interesting for sure. We just have so many problems here, you know? I guess I just wonder what they hope to find and do with that information. How does it matter?

[Maggie Mae]

What do you all think of New Horizons landing on Pluto? Do you think space exploration is a wise use of billions of dollars? What do you think they are hoping to discover and why? I'm curious because I don't follow it very closely but it just seems like a lot of money and for what?

New Horizons didn't land on Pluto. Where did you get that information?

Yes. I think fully funding NASA is much better use of our money than plenty of other things. Like Congress people's salaries, or a war. There were SO many inventions that came from NASA in the 60s that have been adapted for practical use. Memory foam, velcro, insulin pumps, water filtration systems, emulsified zero-valent iron, scratch resistant lenses, flame resistant textiles, those things on the highway that wake you up when you drift off onto the shoulder, workout equipment, shoe insoles, space blankets, freeze dried food, better baby food, cordless tools, MICROCHIPS, and CAT Scanners to start with.

And we just gave up decades of innovation and government sponsored research for what? So people in the 80s could do cocaine? So George Bush and Son could have a war? We are falling further and further behind other countries and it's not just the lack of space program, it's a general attitude towards science and a YAY corporation mentality.

[Walking Cat Bed]

Space exploration is important! Even if all we find is a new element or bacteria that's been able to grow in an unlikely place, that information and evidence can be extremely valuable.

And, as a military veteran, I agree with prioritizing exploration and research over "military spending" (which is nebulous and reinforces the systematic poverty in the US). We benefit from NASA (and military) designed, tested, and created products daily. And especially since space exploration is more collaborative than combative, I'm okay with the money being spent. International missions are much easier to establish and run if the goal is related to research rather than "defense", and international missions and projects help countries find common ground.

Science in general is important because it involves learning how different systems work and how to predict what an unknown system could do. It's more about deciphering patterns and ruling out potential outcomes than "proving" that one method, idea, or philosophy is the most "right".

[Snarkylark]

You're right, it didn't land there. I told you I don't follow it too much;)

[ADoyle90815]

I've been a space geek ever since I was a kid and frankly, I'd gladly pay more in taxes if I knew for certain it would be funneled into space exploration. There's so much to be learned and to choose to venture no further than our own backyard is to stagnate and die. Also, I simply don't accept that, out of the entire universe, we're IT—fundies be damned.

My biggest regret is that I was born too soon, before traveling between worlds and galaxies becomes as easy as driving in your car.

I'm another space geek and have been one since childhood. I also think that one can be both into science and religion, since it could be said that a Creator used the laws of science as a tool for creating everything. I also don't like to think that we're all that's it as far as life is concerned, since those elements are found all over the universe, so it's possible that there are solar systems with at least one planet that can sustain life on it. To me, our curiosity about the universe should never go away, since it's part of what makes life interesting.

[Naga Viper]

I'm looking forward to seeing if any of the new data redefines the redefinition. Like, I get Tyson's point and that we can't be sentimental in science, but hydrostatic equilibrium as a primary determinant? Meh.

Granted, I also just think it'd be really cool to add Ceres, Eris, and the rest to the official planet roster. :lol:

[VelociRapture]

Yes, I read it. Interesting for sure. We just have so many problems here, you know? I guess I just wonder what they hope to find and do with that information. How does it matter?

Well, the part that stood out to me was this bit:

New Horizons: Mission Objectives

• Map surface composition of Pluto and Charon
  Characterize geology and geophysics ("the look" and "the story") of Pluto and Charon
  Characterize the neutral atmosphere of Pluto and its escape rate
  Search for an atmosphere around Charon
  Map surface temperatures on Pluto and Charon
  Search for rings and additional satellites around Pluto

I think that the scientists involved are interested in seeing what can be learned about Earth's formation and atmosphere by studying other planets - in this case, looking more closely at Pluto (its still a planet to me damnit!), Charon, and the objects close to them. Additionally, they seem to be interested in exploring the Kuiper Belt to see what they can learn about the comets there.

*Note: Someone else with more of a background in science or astronomy may be able to explain this better. This was just my basic understanding.

[RosyDaisy]

My BIL works for NASA at the Marshall Space Flight Center. It is is major employer. Stop funding NASA, and you will have thousands of people out of a job. Did you think about that? Did you also know that a lot of things we take for granted are due to NASA research?

You might want to do a little more research before you make such ignorant comments and assumptions. The stupid burns.

[Snarkylark]

My BIL works for NASA at the Marshall Space Flight Center. It is is major employer. Stop funding NASA, and you will have thousands of people out of a job. Did you think about that? Did you also know that a lot of things we take for granted are due to NASA research?

You might want to do a little more research before you make such ignorant comments and assumptions. The stupid burns.

I was honestly just asking because I don't know and would like other people's opinions and thoughts.

[Firiel]

I'm looking forward to seeing if any of the new data redefines the redefinition. Like, I get Tyson's point and that we can't be sentimental in science, but hydrostatic equilibrium as a primary determinant? Meh.

Granted, I also just think it'd be really cool to add Ceres, Eris, and the rest to the official planet roster. :lol:

My very extraordinary mother just served us nine purple candied eyeballs.

[Maggie Mae]

Yes, I read it. Interesting for sure. We just have so many problems here, you know? I guess I just wonder what they hope to find and do with that information. How does it matter?

You know NASA only gets .5% of the Federal Budget, right? In the sixties, they got up to 4.4%

Right now, I think we are spending about 16% on military, 5.9% on debt interest, 2.6% on debt, and LESS THAN A PERCENT ON "SCIENCE" (NASA and I think the National Science Foundation)

You want to save your "tax dollars"? Let's cut military spending. (But let's cut it in a "smart" way. Many, many of our communities across the country depend on military bases to keep their economy alive.) Let's start by redirecting those dollars into NASA and other research facilities. Instead of having contracts with factories to create weapons, we can create sciency stuff. That way we can change the jobs while still HAVING jobs. Because let's face it - you can't just slash the military budget and hope that everyone is "OK". There are civilian jobs on military bases. Military bases also help bring money into local economies (members who live on bases go off base and buy things from retail establishments. Some of those contracts that the military has with corporations to furnish things - those are managed by other companies. Our military industrial complex can't be destroyed overnight without hurting ourselves. But we CAN redirect that stuff into research for non military purposes. We can move money into education and healthcare.

Instead we argue and moan and play dumb political games. BOTH sides are guilty. I think the people on the left have a hard time seeing non urban populations as part of the country; and I think the right has been hijacked by people who have ulterior motives for power and are not interested in the country. Actually, I'm sure there are people on the left who just want power as well. Also all social stuff (same sex marriage, abortion) is a distraction. We argue over that (even though it should just be a given that people can do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt others, and medical procedures shouldn't be illegal) instead of teaching people about the ramifications of our consumer culture and outsourcing our factories to Asia so that we can buy crappy home goods at Walmart for low costs.

[Naga Viper]

I don't have a meaningful science background either, Snarkylark, but I find the whole thing fascinating. Even just the cosmetic stuff, like finding out if Pluto has rings (guess not) or more moons and if the information we get out of this further clarifies the binary-ish relationship with Charon. And who knows what we'll learn once the KBO half of the mission starts.

[Snarkylark]

Oh, I think it's fascinating too. I'm not sure where the accusation that I wanted to cut all sciencey stuff and jobs came from. :huh

[Snarkylark]

And some of you posted great answers. Thanks for that:)

[Geechee Girl]

My very extraordinary mother just served us nine purple candied eyeballs.

Mary's violet eyes made Jack stay up nights pondering crawfish étoufée.

[twin2]

I've been a space geek for a long time as well and alas, if I was better at math I'd probably be an astrophysicist rather than a pharmacologist.

The fact that I got to see a detailed picture of something so far away, that up until very recently had just been a light in the sky is beyond fascinating to me. I can't stop looking at the pictures and waiting to see more. It is a feeling of wonderment that I can't quite put into words. I felt the same way when the landed the probe in Titan. Seeing pictures of a world so strange and far away, again a feeling I can't quite put into words.

I remember back when I was in grad school, they day they launched the probe and realizing it would be 10 years before the it got to Pluto. I remember thinking "2015, so far away, wonder where I'll be then". Now I know, and it is a place I'd never thought I'd be and I think back to the day it launched. In some ways, it seems very sentimental.

I've seen arguments over the internet all day whether it was worth it, or could they money have been better spent here on Earth. Yes, I suppose it could, but there is something so priceless about knowledge.....

[guitar_villain]

A couple of comments from a guy who has http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/ set as his home page... The really exciting thing about this is that it's the last "new" type of object in the solar system we're likely to get a closeup of. We've visited the rocky planets, the gas giants, the ice giants (although we need to go back), several types of asteroids, a couple of comets and various moons. With Pluto we now have a Kuiper Belt object, and it looks quite different than all of the above. As a bonus, Charon appears to be quite different at least at the surface. We're not likely to get another close view of a new type of object in my lifetime- the only really unique one would be Sedna, which is probably an Oort cloud object but barring major advances in engineering it ain't happening.

As far as "why", how about just "because we can". Humans are explorers. It's what we do- travel new places and learn new things. (Also, usually kill the natives but at least we don't have to worry about that.) The Kuiper Belt is made of shards of the original stuff in the solar system, barely touched. Learning about it probably won't have any direct benefit any more than the pentaquark discovery at the LHC this week, but that's not a reason to not learn.

My very extraordinary mother just served us nine purple candied eyeballs.

Good. Now add in Makemake and Haumea (official) and Quaoar, Sedna, Orcus, 2007OR10, 2002MS4 and Salacia (all probable depending on the exact diameter you accept) as well as Charon ( Charon is not a moon, Pluto and Charon are a binary dwarf planet system since their barycenter lies outside of Pluto). Gets ugly kind of quick. Even hydrostatic equilibrium has issues: ice is more plastic than rock, so you can have small iceballs in equilibrium while larger rocks aren't.

I actually have my students play a game about this debate in my class. (Not broken since I know the author and he'd be happy for the publicity.) You'd think the definition would be easy, but it turns out to be a lot like the Justice Stewart definition of porn- "I know it when I see it"

Finally, I'm dancing a little happy dance since updated LORRI images just got posted- behold the mountains of Pluto!

[halcionne]

Mary's violet eyes made Jack stay up nights pondering crawfish étoufée.

Ah, you're mixing up poetry and romance with science; I love it. :clap:

[PennySycamore]

I feel so incredibly lucky to be old enough to have seen the space shots. Our teachers would bring a portable TV to school and we'd watch the rockets go up from Cape Canaveral (Cape Kennedy) beginning with Alan Shepherd. The picture was snowy (this was way before schools had cable) but it was unforgettable each and every time. I recall that horrible day of the Apollo 1 fire when Gus Grissom, Ed White and Roger Chaffee were killed on the launch pad. Nobody could have predicted right then that we'd be going to the moon in a little over 2 1/2 years. The space program still excites me at 60 years of age.

[OkToBeTakei]

Apparently they are trying to find out the vaccination rate of aliens. Fascinating!