"Little Boy" Film

[Anny Nym]

The war broke alot of them, no need to gloss that over either. That were people too.

I guess I'm just glad we never got to find out whether the German nuclear program was as advanced as some believed - especially since the reslt was so terrible when the American bombs were dropped.

IF it was as advanced as some people believe -that then means in some way, we DID find out:

As your link (among various other sources, and I have every reason to see yours, and others, as a historical fact) states, the american secret agencies brought over people, of whom they were aware of "their service for Hitler's Third Reich, NSDAP and SS memberships as well as the classification of many as war criminals" to serve a purpose in the USA, if it was either WWII related or later the cold war.

So that means the USA would have used Nazi-technology, fully aware.

(Anyone familiar with the "rat lines" and the role of the CIA and some other quite infamous secret agencies in it?)

[Burris]

As your link (among various other sources, and I have every reason to see yours, and others, as a historical fact) states, the american secret agencies brought over people, of whom they were aware of "their service for Hitler's Third Reich, NSDAP and SS memberships as well as the classification of many as war criminals" to serve a purpose in the USA, if it was either WWII related or later the cold war.

So that means the USA would have used Nazi-technology, fully aware.

That is exactly my point: The US did use Nazi technology; they hired war criminals to help them build things those same men were at one point building in Germany. And the ones who stayed in Germany were, I assume, attempting to complete what they and their former comrades had started even after Hitler died; maybe even especially after.

The United States was using NSDAP technology to further their own atomic program. And it worked.

I have no reason at all to assume the scientists who remained in Germany were less competent than the ones who were bought or otherwise 'collected' by the United States. And it wouldn't have been only a matter of who successfully created the bomb first, but rather of who would risk using it first. (Aside: Although most scientists pretty much put to rest the idea their bomb could ignite the atmosphere, some still believed it, worried about it, and complained to the US government about it. So, essentially, these guys were kind of really, really, sort of sure their terrible bomb would not set the Earth on fire - so, being human and curious...)

[Anny Nym]

And the ones who stayed in Germany were, I assume, attempting to complete what they and their former comrades had started even after Hitler died; maybe even especially after.

Okay, this now steps into a differnt area, I think - to what are you refering with "especially after" ?

So, essentially, these guys were kind of really, really, sort of sure their terrible bomb would not set the Earth on fire - so, being human and curious...

So it´s more a matter of : "they had it, they needed to test it, they did it." ?

Now to that i could relate, that is a popular expert opinion already.

do you say expert opinion/Lehrmeinung ? It´s almost 2 am here, I´m on husband-and-baby- shift and my english starts to deteriorate I´m afraid)

[Burris]

Okay, this now steps into a differnt area, I think - to what are you refering with "especially after" ?

How many NSDAP scientists do you suppose really believed there either would or should be a 1000-year Reich? I seriously want to know what you think on that.

It's almost as if people overlook the amount of hero-worship Hitler accrued in the early years and then assumed, "Well, he's dead - good riddance to his shitty ideas."

But ideas don't work that way. The true believers among his scientists would seem the least likely recruits for Operation PaperClip and the most likely for, say, Operation Bitch-Slap-the-Allies. I would operate under the assumption, at least in 1945-46, that some of those men were still creeping around in their bunkers in an attempt to build a weapon of mass destruction. And that some of their troopers were still around to reform if possible.

So it´s more a matter of : "they had it, they needed to test it, they did it." ?

Now to that i could relate, that is a popular expert opinion already.

Yes, the term is "expert opinion." And no, I don't claim to have one; I have a theory.

But I learned about the mutual destruction pact between the US and the CCCP (USSR) in primary school. It was the first real understanding I received that people are entirely capable of building the most god-awful things, and of using them, even if the only victory they could possibly achieve by doing it was purely symbolic - assuming anyone survived to celebrate it.

Yes, mine is definitely a minority opinion, in more than one way.

But yes, I totally and absolutely believe, beyond any doubt, that people will do things if they can, no matter how terrible, just for the sake of doing them; or to win a bet; or to accrue favour. Some people, if they're given license to try anything they can conceive, will do just that. (And for all you may think that my beliefs about the use of atomic bombs in Japan is either antiquated or off-base entirely, this - that people have and will do things just to do them - is a stark fact. Name the decade. Name the nation. I'll likely be able to produce proof.)

[Burris]

Fun fact: Learning about the pact gave me nightmares - for weeks. My teacher, I told her about the, and she assured me there would never be anything like what came before - that people learned from the atomic bomb, and that people learned from the mass murders too.

Not again she told. Not ever would that be permitted by civilized men.

[lilwriter85]

The Hillsong movie was probably done to cash in on the huge following that Hillsong Churches and the band have. Hillsong Churches and Hillsong United are similar to Mars Hill. From what, I can tell Hillsong is less conservative than Mars Hill. Several celebrities sometimes go to Hillsong NYC.

I saw a promo for Little Boy on TV today. To me, it kind of looks better than Christan movies like God's Not Dead and Do You Believe.

Another upcoming Christian movie, that we might see getting a lot of attention, is Where Hope Grows. It's about a ex-baseball player with a drinking problems who befriends a young man with Down syndrome. The reason I found out about this movie is because my uncle's step-granddaughter has Down syndrome and he and others in the family have been posting about it on FB.

http://www.wherehopegrowsmovie.com/

[Anny Nym]

How many NSDAP scientists do you suppose really believed there either would or should be a 1000-year Reich? I seriously want to know what you think on that.

It's almost as if people overlook the amount of hero-worship Hitler accrued in the early years and then assumed, "Well, he's dead - good riddance to his shitty ideas."

How many of them believed that there would be a 1000-year Reich? Until around 1942/1943 probably quite a number. After this turning point? Very few.

How man believed that there should be a 1000year Reich, that is a entire different question, which is not necessarily bound to scientific circles. Also nobody overlook(ed) that after H.´s death imo. You surely know that famous song "Thoughts are free, who can guess them..."

But ideas don't work that way. The true believers among his scientists would seem the least likely recruits for Operation PaperClip and the most likely for, say, Operation Bitch-Slap-the-Allies. I would operate under the assumption, at least in 1945-46, that some of those men were still creeping around in their bunkers in an attempt to build a weapon of mass destruction. And that some of their troopers were still around to reform if possible.

Please let me explain why I see some fundamental flaws in this theory:

First, the most loyal supporters of "him" were not to find in scientific circles.

People you would find there were for a vast majority (exception proves the rule) "carreerists". They joined the party to get funding, to get a good position to work on their researches. Most of them weren´t exactly philantropists and didn´t care where the money came from as long as it came. That´s why the CIA hadn´t really a hard time to convince them anyway.

The people from Operation Paperclip (and similar) were the better ones, not the weaker ones. And they were jolly glad to go to the USA and continue their comfortable life and not having any of the "inconveniences" of being hold accountable by the victorous forces for their NSDAP membership, the projects involving forced labour, etc.

Also, what bunker do you have in mind? Serious question, not every bunker was the Führerbunker. I know what a WWII bunker looks like, I live in the federal state who did hold some seriously advanced underground bunkers. The bigger ones, who did hold war related equipment at one point, were either destructed by the german army as part of the Last Order or seized by the either Western Allies or the Soviets the very second they set a foot into it.

The smaller ones are merely four walls digged into a hill, every austrian wine cellar is more sophisticated and complex (which they really are, but since medieval times). In spring 1945, the whole infrastructure was pretty much dead, the administrative structures of the former Reich were not existing any more, the Allies had taken over and were frantically searching for former SSler, NSDAP members, higher ups or war criminals in pretty much every solitary mountain hut and attic.

The years between 1945 and 1947 were the worst for the people, there was only chaos and the infamous hunger winter of 1946/1947.

And in all that, in this years, some evil genius scientists sitting in a bunker and building a nuclear mass destruction weapon, where one needs equipment, power, the right accomondations for, the technical requirements, plutonium(!) and time for? And all this while being not discovered by anybody, let alone the Allied forces ?

Sorry, but no.

AFTERWARDS, however, let´s say in the mid 50s, the early 60s ... some things were a little bit different.

My grandfather was a engineer in Spain around this time, and ... (where is the hidden content button when you need it :shifty-kitty: )

Fun fact: Learning about the pact gave me nightmares - for weeks. My teacher, I told her about the, and she assured me there would never be anything like what came before - that people learned from the atomic bomb, and that people learned from the mass murders too.

Not again she told. Not ever would that be permitted by civilized men.

(I went to school in the 1990s, when the Cold War was over, still I did hear alot of it at home.)

That was very kind of your teacher, but it is (as you for sure know too) just not true. After 1945, there were alot of mass murderings, ethnical cleansings, genocides happening in the world. Until today. So I personally won´t count on the nobody-would-ever-use-the-A-Bomb-theory-again too.

But at least it was a good reaction from her by pedagogic view points.

[mirele]

The Hillsong movie was probably done to cash in on the huge following that Hillsong Churches and the band have. Hillsong Churches and Hillsong United are similar to Mars Hill. From what, I can tell Hillsong is less conservative than Mars Hill. Several celebrities sometimes go to Hillsong NYC.

Hillsong is IMHO, more of a money cult than a church. And the connection with Mark Driscoll is more than incidental; the head pastor of Hillsong, Brian Houston, is going to interview Driscoll on the stage at the Sydney Hillsong Conference from June 29 to July 3.

And just another thing about Hillsong: Brian Houston's deceased father Frank, was a molester and it was covered up by the Australian Assemblies of God and Hillsong church. It wasn't until Brian was on the hot seat before a Royal Commission in Australia last fall that the whole thing came tumbling out. Brian tried to make himself look good, but it's hard to look good when you didn't turn your father in to the cops for sexually assaulting children.

[julie paradox]

Burris knows it first-hand, Anny.

(Burris - we watched in horror, hand-wringing pathetically. It was Europe's shame, and I will never forget.)