Christian virginity pledges

[salex]

Holy shit that is awful. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

Do they honestly not see how this shit affects people?!

I think "they" are happy that it affects people in ways that make them unhappy, guilty and feeling like they are not enough. that keeps them coming back for more counseling and consolation--broken people are easier to manipulate and control. Voddie whatever his name is preached in the one sermon of his I heard on the radio that marriage isn't neccesarily supposed to make a person happy, and maybe god wanted you to be miserable to learn something. I think the guilt is seen as a control mechanism.

[Phoenix]

The fundies are not the only ones who fixate on pre-marital virginity. Catholics are pretty good at it too.

There are some tragic results of this kind of thinking. What about the girls and boys who are molested/raped as children or teens? The purity culture can be brutal on them for events that they had no choice or control over.

Also what if a formerly virginal wife ends up in a marriage where her husband is not normal sexually? I am not trying to get into a PC war here about what constitutes normal, but say you were virginal to the core and married someone like the Pecan Thief? Without ANY prior sexual frame of reference it would be bewildering if your spouse didn't want much in the way of sex or was impatient about foreplay and treated this suddenly holy and great act as a chore. This sort of thing gets cruel fast with the otherwise ignorant spouse wondering what is wrong with them that their spouse doesn't want them?

I have heard from too many people this has happened to, it is more common than you might think.

Even my high school friends who had been highly sexually active with numerous partners in their 20's made comments after marriage about periods of adjustment in learning to live with a man who wasn't a brother or father.

To answer a question another poster asked along the lines of "Don't they see what this shit does to people?" No. They don't. Unless it has been their experience personally or they had a close family member or best friend who got knocked sideways "following the rules" it won't occur to them to question if spousal relationships are not in fact the way they "should" be.

Control is definitely an issue any time the state or religion gets into the bedroom with couples. Learned in a college class that many states in the US still have anti-sodomy, even anti-oral-sex laws on the books. My first question was, "How do the states plan on enforcing those laws?" With mind control religion doesn't have to have cameras in private homes, they are already in the heads of their followers who act accordingly.

Edited once for typo and to add to post.

[utter solitude]

Control is definitely an issue any time the state or religion gets into the bedroom with couples. Learned in a college class that many states in the US still have anti-sodomy, even anti-oral-sex laws on the books. My first question was, "How do the states plan on enforcing those laws?" With mind control religion doesn't have to have cameras in private homes, they are already in the heads of their followers who act accordingly.

Edited once for typo and to add to post.

They don't. That's why those laws get overturned so easily.

[TheEnglishButterfly]

I feel incredibly sad for the young women who believe that their virginity is the ONLY thing that makes them special, and kind of makes you wonder why they're so eager to get married (marriage --> loss of specialness).

This. I honestly hope my daughter DOESNT wait until marriage. If she wants to, great, but I will not push it. I will open it as an option but not a "This is what you should do." My daughter is almost 11, doesn't care about boys yet. I am wondering if she will be bi or lesbian, honestly. But in the end... I have had a few talks with her with babies out of wedlock (I had her out of wedlock), she knows my struggles as a single parent... but she knows that if she has a child, hey, we will get through it! I will tell her that sex should be with someone that respects her and makes her feel special, and whether that is through marriage or before then, that's okay. Just be safe... just be right and true to herself. I will be there to support her whether she has premarital sex or waits.

Just personally... I hope she experiences that before marriage and doesnt have all the pressures placed upon her on her wedding night and so much more, ya know?

[Walking Cat Bed]

I think "they" are happy that it affects people in ways that make them unhappy, guilty and feeling like they are not enough. that keeps them coming back for more counseling and consolation--broken people are easier to manipulate and control. Voddie whatever his name is preached in the one sermon of his I heard on the radio that marriage isn't neccesarily supposed to make a person happy, and maybe god wanted you to be miserable to learn something. I think the guilt is seen as a control mechanism.

The "fun" part is that I'm still considered a "success" story, by their terms. (I've gravitated to "sex within a relationship is ideal", which I feel is much healthier.)

[Toothfairy]

I think the problem with these pledges is that they give half information. Some people don't take them seriously and are forced to do it without real explanation on why. If you save yourself then your wedding night will be amazing. Your that special gift for your spouse. You will live happily ever after. All these things aren't true. It provide unrealistic expectations.

[uber frau]

My church didn't do official purity pledges, thankfully, but we all got the msg very clearly that premarital sex was dirty and defiling. And that once you had sex with someone, you had a connection that you couldn't break and that you pretty much had one marry them.

At the same time, we were brought up to always put your own wants last

There was a weird mix of expecting us to do the right thing and to stand up for what we believed in (or, at least, what we were taught to be the right thing and what we were expected to believe in) while never having been able to practice setting boundaries, especially in situations were there was any (real or perceived) power difference.

I know of three aquaintences who got badly burnt by this whole mindfuck.

1. A school friend who was raped by a teacher. Most ppl still think of it as a consensual relationship (or, worse, that she led him on), but it wasn't. It was a fucked up situation all round, but it was made worse by the fact that we were NEVER allowed to disobey the demands of those in positions of authority.

2. A friend who was pressured into sex with her boyfriend, and then stayed in a relationship that wasn't a good match because she believed she had to. She's been married for more than ten years but says it's her biggest regret. They're struggling through but I don't think either of them really expect it to last longer than until she's able to be financially self sufficient.

3. A friend who got pregnant by a guy who was a huge arse and had an abortion (a HUGE no, and made even worse by the fact that she'd been brought up to genuinely believe she was killing her baby. She still feels a huge amount of guilt over it) because she knew she'd be pressured to marry the father. He got his next seventeen year old girlfriend pregnant about 6 months later, and her parents made her marry him. Except that the story of the first girl got leaked and she got into all sorts of shit with the community. They made her life absolute hell, and then they shunned her. Girlfriend number 2 had 3 kids in the first two years of being married, then found out that the guy had gotten another woman pregnant and gotten into trouble with the law.

Fun and games all round. She was allowed to divorce him, but only because he'd cheated, not for any other reason. And she can't ever remarry.

Those are just the stories of ppl I know personally, and I don't keep up with the gossip at all.

[lawfulevil]

The level of guilt/shame about sex was high, but so was the level of guilt/shame about masturbation. You were expected to just choke back ALL sexual feeling and redirect it into something else- usually exercise, but music/art was also acceptable. I don't understand how you're supposed to go from 5+ years channeling all your hormones into painting pictures of Jesus cuddling lambs to a healthy sexual relationship.

Then there's all the issues with compatibility. I realize plenty of people on FJ got married as virgins and have reasonably happy marriages. But plenty didn't, and almost every one of the people I knew growing up who got married without at least a test drive got divorced/annulled. The successful(ish, so far) "virgins" were, uh, probably adequately prepared to evaluate chemistry and compatibility, even if they still considered themselves virgins at marriage. You know, this kind of virgin:

The worst example was someone I "dated" (read: held hands with at lunch, kissed a few times with tightly closed mouth) in high school*. He converted to Mormonism and went to BYU instead of UT. His parents weren't too pleased. His roommate married some girl their senior year, so he married that girl's roommate. They got the marriage annulled 3 years later for non-consummation. He lives in San Francisco now and has Jesus Hair. His ex moved to Australia. I have no idea what the deal was, but his excuse for never consummating the marriage is that her vagina was "disgusting", so... maybe it would've helped to see one before making a theoretically lifelong commitment. Just saying.

*Young Evil's slutty phase came well after high school.

[Alicepooh]

"When we got home, I couldn't look anyone in the eye. Everyone knew my virginity was gone. My parents, my church, my friends, my co-workers. They all knew I was soiled and tarnished. I wasn't special anymore. My virginity had become such an essential part of my personality that I didn't know who I was without it."

I felt so sorry for Jill Duggar when, the day after her wedding, a beautiful smiling picture of her and Derrick showed up on TMZ with the caption "is this the face of a Duggar who just had sex?".

Aside from the emotional and psychological harm that can derive from virginity pledges, I think it's even more brutal for these girls to see themselves paraded all over the internet like some kind of a freak show.

[louisa05]

The level of guilt/shame about sex was high, but so was the level of guilt/shame about masturbation. You were expected to just choke back ALL sexual feeling and redirect it into something else- usually exercise, but music/art was also acceptable. I don't understand how you're supposed to go from 5+ years channeling all your hormones into painting pictures of Jesus cuddling lambs to a healthy sexual relationship.

Then there's all the issues with compatibility. I realize plenty of people on FJ got married as virgins and have reasonably happy marriages. But plenty didn't, and almost every one of the people I knew growing up who got married without at least a test drive got divorced/annulled. The successful(ish, so far) "virgins" were, uh, probably adequately prepared to evaluate chemistry and compatibility, even if they still considered themselves virgins at marriage. You know, this kind of virgin:

The worst example was someone I "dated" (read: held hands with at lunch, kissed a few times with tightly closed mouth) in high school*. He converted to Mormonism and went to BYU instead of UT. His parents weren't too pleased. His roommate married some girl their senior year, so he married that girl's roommate. They got the marriage annulled 3 years later for non-consummation. He lives in San Francisco now and has Jesus Hair. His ex moved to Australia. I have no idea what the deal was, but his excuse for never consummating the marriage is that her vagina was "disgusting", so... maybe it would've helped to see one before making a theoretically lifelong commitment. Just saying.

*Young Evil's slutty phase came well after high school.

I know plenty of people who got married a virgins and have very successful marriages.

BUT...the abstinence movement was not in high gear for Gen X either. I never heard the kind of garbage purity culture teaches and I grew up around a lot of fundies (relatives), at some churches that leaned evangelical at times, and attending Catholic school. At my Catholic high school, we were taught that waiting was better and sex should be in the context of the intimacy of a marital relationship, but we were also taught that it was a sin that could be confessed and forgiven like all others (I know many here don't like the word "sin"--but the point was made to us using that church teaching that premarital sex would not end anyone's life). It wasn't until the mid to late 1990s when I was teaching at Christian school that these teachings went so mainstream. By the time I switched to teach at a Catholic school in 2000, the same crap had infiltrated there.

Having worked with teens in settings where abstinence was taught, I think a lot of the problem is that (in many cases--not the far extremes of fundy land, granted) well meaning people have tried to come up with ways to persuade teens and young adults that abstinence is a better choice. For a lot of teens, it is absolutely a better choice. I think many adults who haven't worked with kids tend to look at the most mature teen they know and say...yeah, see, they are ready to make their own choices--but I had students who could not make a wise decision about what to wear in a near blizzard (hint--shorts, a short sleeved shirt, flip flops and that windbreaker you broke the zipper on--not the go to choice) or remember to bring a pen to class every day who certainly weren't ready to make decisions about sex. But talking to young teens, especially, about sexuality is difficult because they have no frame of reference. Instead of trying to give them one, we are too uncomfortable and resort to fear tactics: Sin! Hell! Destruction of your future marriage! STDs! Death!

When I was teaching at Catholic school once, they had a pair of local fundagelical woman come in to do an "abstinence presentation". It was all about how SEX WILL KILL YOU. It was horrifying. They had a powerpoint with lists of all the diseases people who have sex outside of marriage most definitely get. Yeast infections were on the list. A sweet little 9th grade girl came to me immediately after the presentation extremely upset because she had had a yeast infection due to an antibiotic and she was a virgin and had never even dated and was it really an STD??? I reassured her that it most definitely is not and is commonly caused by antibiotics.

After that presentation, we were supposed to discuss it in our homeroom groups. I told mine it was all a load of crap and asked them what they really wanted to know. I had younger kids--9th and 10th grade. And what they really wanted to talk about was really interesting to me and has defined the issue for me ever since: they wanted to know about relationships. Everyone talks to them about sex in terms of sin and pregnancy/stds. What they really wanted to know was how is intimacy (sexual and otherwise) supposed to work in healthy relationships. When you have that conversation, it isn't about persuading them of what not to do or scaring them. It's not an abstinence lecture. It is a conversation and the adults having it have to be open and honest. But it is a conversation that will arm them to make healthier choices about both sex and relationships. I think that is what we need to be doing. If our moral compass tells us that sexual intimacy is best reserved for marriage, then that can certainly be part of the conversation but not in the weird contrived dichotomies that have been invented for it (premarital sex evil/marital sex glorious).

[lawfulevil]

I'm glad it worked out for some people, but I'm a Millennial, and it was nothing but guilt and shame 24/7. Waiting wasn't "better", it was the only option if you didn't want to be a pregnant std-riddled whoreslut DEMOCRAT ABORTIONIST that Jesus hated.

I'm not even saying that abstinence is a bad choice for teens. I think that really depends on the teen, and I also think that normal sexual development is a process, not all meant to happen in one night. You might be ready for your first real kiss at 12, but not ready for sex until you're 20+, and that's okay. Or later! Or earlier! Personally, I had my first kiss at 16 in high school and lost my virginity as a financially independent adult right before my 19th birthday. Those are fairly different ages/developmental stages. I think the conflation of kissing with sex is a HUGE mistake- societally, and for both people who marry without ever TOUCHING one another at 25&27 and for people who figure that since they've kissed they might as well have sex at 13. I know examples of couples who married due to both extremes, and none of those couples worked out well. Denying people information almost always comes with evil intent. I got married the first time right after I turned 20, and it was a huge mistake. Huge.

Even beyond "maybe this isn't the greatest plan", there's also the argument that people are getting married a lot later in life than they did even a few generations ago, and expecting someone in their late 20's to have never so much as kissed someone or touched their own genitals is unrealistic. Both sets of my grandparents got married right out of high school (17/19 and 18/19), my parents right out of college (21/22). My parents were no virgins, they got married because I was on the way. This generation? My friends had a wave of marriages right out of high school (all crashing failures) and right out of college (mixed success), but they were tiny compared to what's happening now, in our late 20's/early 30's. Everybody and their cat (not really their cat.... maybe their cat) is getting married this year and next year.

We won't even get into how judgmental as fuck some of my former acquaintances are because they've only screwed their (drug-addicted, drug dealing, wife-beating, deadbeat dad) ex-husband and refuse to get remarried. One of 'em stole $32k from her grandmother for him. SO PURE. GOD SMILES ON THEM.

[Walking Cat Bed]

Honestly, if sex were presented as a CHOICE (with actual information available), These Kids Today wouldn't be nearly as fucked-up when it's involved. Of *course* someone who's told their entire life that non-married sex is sinful and something they'll regret forever and will probably get syphighonherpes with a side of knocked up will be secretive, probably won't have access to birth control or condoms, and will feel serious guilt and negative feelings. And of *course* the "good" kids who don't have sex (or at least don't tell anyone) have embarrassing "LOL YER GONNA DO IT" comments at their weddings.

[snuggles911]

I think the problem with these pledges is that they give half information. Some people don't take them seriously and are forced to do it without real explanation on why. If you save yourself then your wedding night will be amazing. Your that special gift for your spouse. You will live happily ever after. All these things aren't true. It provide unrealistic expectations.

As someone who kept her pledge, I agree with this. While I believe that Christians should wait, and there are benefits to waiting, it doesn't guarantee that you won't have to overcome sexual problems such as incompatibility. My husband and I both suffered b/c of our unrealistic expectations.

My 14-year-old daughter attended a non-fundie Christian camp this summer. I was surprised when she returned home and told me there had been three purity seminars (one co-ed, one all-girl, and one for boys).

During the all-girls seminar the woman who directed the camp with her husband had a frank talk about her own sex life. She said that it had been beautiful and romantic to be a virgin on her wedding night and to have her husband remove her gown and make love to her.

But, she also said that her husband's past sex partners had "ruined" their sex life. She said that she was insecure b/c she was always comparing herself to his ex partners. She also said that he frequently cried during sex b/c he felt guilty about having "lustful" thoughts toward her.

Frankly, I think she needs to forgive him and move on. And he needs to get over feeling guilty about being sexually aroused by his own wife. I think it goes back to what other posters have said about the guilt that the purity movement can generate when good intentions go awry.

[utter solitude]

Honestly, if sex were presented as a CHOICE (with actual information available), These Kids Today wouldn't be nearly as fucked-up when it's involved. Of *course* someone who's told their entire life that non-married sex is sinful and something they'll regret forever and will probably get syphighonherpes with a side of knocked up will be secretive, probably won't have access to birth control or condoms, and will feel serious guilt and negative feelings. And of *course* the "good" kids who don't have sex (or at least don't tell anyone) have embarrassing "LOL YER GONNA DO IT" comments at their weddings.

:lol: at "These Kids Today" XD

[2xx1xy1JD]

As someone who kept her pledge, I agree with this. While I believe that Christians should wait, and there are benefits to waiting, it doesn't guarantee that you won't have to overcome sexual problems such as incompatibility. My husband and I both suffered b/c of our unrealistic expectations.

My 14-year-old daughter attended a non-fundie Christian camp this summer. I was surprised when she returned home and told me there had been three purity seminars (one co-ed, one all-girl, and one for boys).

During the all-girls seminar the woman who directed the camp with her husband had a frank talk about her own sex life. She said that it had been beautiful and romantic to be a virgin on her wedding night and to have her husband remove her gown and make love to her.

But, she also said that her husband's past sex partners had "ruined" their sex life. She said that she was insecure b/c she was always comparing herself to his ex partners. She also said that he frequently cried during sex b/c he felt guilty about having "lustful" thoughts toward her.

Frankly, I think she needs to forgive him and move on. And he needs to get over feeling guilty about being sexually aroused by his own wife. I think it goes back to what other posters have said about the guilt that the purity movement can generate when good intentions go awry.

Ewwwww.

Did any part of your reaction involve saying "WTF are these people doing, sharing TMI about their sex lives with my 14 yr old?" I'm not a prude at all, but this just strikes me as being completely inappropriate.

I also truly hate the idea that it's legitimate to blame the fact that your spouse had sex with someone else before your marriage for ruining your relationship forever. You know what fucks up marriages? Blaming someone else because you have a hang-up even though they did nothing wrong to you, and never getting over it.

[BullyJBG]

As a Christian, and someone who waited and is glad I did, that article made me so sad.

It's like these people live in a alternate universe version of Christianity. Even though we are theologically and socially pretty conservative, I can't relate to her experience at all, and I'm terribly sad things got so twisted for her and for so many others. What a horrible, harmful view of sex and marriage that she was burdened with. :( ETA, it is bizarre to me that anyone, even with the "wait for marriage" view would see marital sex as impure. In that moral constructs, marriage is what *makes* sex pure. I'm glad I wasn't raised with the idea that sex is inherently impure and that it is always bad.

Wow; I could've written this myself! I think the "true love waits" rallies started when I was in my 20s. I grew up believing that sex is beautiful in the context of marriage. One Bible school teacher said "God created sex, and He devoted a whole book to it". Yeah; I remember at camp, youth group, Bible school, etc, that topic of "how far is too far" came up often. Not everyone necessarily agreed on when holding hands or kissing should be done, but we did agree that sex before marriage was sin. Some were only too eager to be married as soon as possible, lol.

This young woman did get one benefit from her waiting, though; but you can say it was just luck if you like. She and her husband have a very trusting relationship, and whether he has the same faith and values or not, he sure seems good on the Biblical commands for husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church. No comparisons with others, no rubbing it in each other's faces.

How to teach purity, keep on learning. And I may be post-marriage celibate for life(my hubby passed away) because I feel it's best to do that again, and it's rare to find someone 40+ who's willing to wait again. There's lots of good in what's been done before, but there's no guarantee that it'll work on everyone. I also remember, in my pre-marital counselling, we were told that there would be a "mental shift" in thinking on sex. There were adjustments, and we worked through them and it was worth it. Coming back to church and to our families, well, it really wasn't much different than coming back from ANYWHERE. Maybe a little weird, but that's what the honeymoon is for; not being seen RIGHT after the wedding night. Yes, we're more open about it now, but there needs to be balance. Keep working on it.

[DarkAnts]

I am happy to hear that she had a supportive husband who abstained from sex while she worked through this. I am also happy that she has a husband who will support her and help her work through her emotional trauma.

As a victim of rape, I can say its hard to get over the purity stigma. It's hard to move on and see yourself as a whole individual. This girl was not raped but she seemed to feel what I felt at age 13. The purity movement is dangerous. It creates an unhealthy image of self worth.

I later refused to go to any church or school (Lutheran private school) event that talked about purity. I already had low selfs stem. I did not need others to tell me I was not worthy.

[OneFifthQuiverFull]

This. I honestly hope my daughter DOESNT wait until marriage. If she wants to, great, but I will not push it. I will open it as an option but not a "This is what you should do." My daughter is almost 11, doesn't care about boys yet. I am wondering if she will be bi or lesbian, honestly. But in the end... I have had a few talks with her with babies out of wedlock (I had her out of wedlock), she knows my struggles as a single parent... but she knows that if she has a child, hey, we will get through it! I will tell her that sex should be with someone that respects her and makes her feel special, and whether that is through marriage or before then, that's okay. Just be safe... just be right and true to herself. I will be there to support her whether she has premarital sex or waits.

Just personally... I hope she experiences that before marriage and doesnt have all the pressures placed upon her on her wedding night and so much more, ya know?

I'm pretty liberal but really??? Because she isn't interested in boys you wonder if she is gay? She is 11!!!

[Phoenix]

I also truly hate the idea that it's legitimate to blame the fact that your spouse had sex with someone else before your marriage for ruining your relationship forever. You know what fucks up marriages? Blaming someone else because you have a hang-up even though they did nothing wrong to you, and never getting over it.

I have never understood this idea. It is highly unrealistic. The former Mr. Phoenix was a solider before we met. There was no way I expected him to have zero sexual history. He didn't cheat on me with relationships that took place before we entered each others lives.

Times when past sexual history could be a real problem in your marriage is in cases of STD's, if a spouse was molested, raped or much more minor but periodically irritating as hell, had an ex who never quite let go.

It would be lovely if we could meet our soul mates at 16 and be married for 50 years but real life doesn't always work that way.

[Eater of Worlds]

I was reading the Daily Fail, and sometimes it surprises me with what they post. I'm not breaking the link because the "most read website in the world" isn't going to care about FJ. The Daily Mail link is worth it for all the "related" links it shows in the middle of the article. I mean, heck, I just found out that Brazil still requires a virginity test or a clean pap smear for women educators, but at least they no longer require a colposcopy.

But seriously, men who take these virginity pledges struggle with sex like women do (noteably the whole shameful to sacred thing), especially since they are encouraged to talk about sex and support each other prior to having sex. However, once they do the deed they're essentially told that sharing anything about their sex life with others is disrespectful to their spouses so they lose the support they had prior to marriage.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2730692/Evangelical-virgin-men-pledge-abstinence-left-confused-married-struggle-new-sex-lives.html

For the article that they cribbed this info from, go here http://m.livescience.com/47431-virginity-pledging-men-sexually-confused.html

[2xx1xy1JD]

I was reading the Daily Fail, and sometimes it surprises me with what they post. I'm not breaking the link because the "most read website in the world" isn't going to care about FJ. The Daily Mail link is worth it for all the "related" links it shows in the middle of the article. I mean, heck, I just found out that Brazil still requires a virginity test or a clean pap smear for women educators, but at least they no longer require a colposcopy.

But seriously, men who take these virginity pledges struggle with sex like women do (noteably the whole shameful to sacred thing), especially since they are encouraged to talk about sex and support each other prior to having sex. However, once they do the deed they're essentially told that sharing anything about their sex life with others is disrespectful to their spouses so they lose the support they had prior to marriage.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2730692/Evangelical-virgin-men-pledge-abstinence-left-confused-married-struggle-new-sex-lives.html

For the article that they cribbed this info from, go here http://m.livescience.com/47431-virginity-pledging-men-sexually-confused.html

I don't travel in Christian fundie circles so I don't know anyone IRL like this. I was surprised, though, because in the religious circles that I do know (Orthodox Jewish), there are people that the bride and groom can contact afterward for advice. Do most pastors not deal with this stuff?

[ariel9]

My church had a the Silver Ring Thing/ True love waits come there. I mean I didn't have a choice on going to events as my mom drug me and my sister there. They did a few skits that you were too young and impressionable to understand that "Hey this does not happen all the time" and also presented some "shocking" statistics. We said the pledge and got a ring. I used to wear it everyday but between sports and losing weight the ring was no longer comfortable. I broke my pledge in my twenties.I honestly don't feel bad about it. I didn't really get to make the choice myself and sometimes feelings change. At the time I had no feeling/ attraction to the opposite sex so it was like "hey I could do this forever" but as I got older it really felt like forever. I don't regret having sex when I did. I know that I'm still an awesome person whether or not my hymen is still intact. I know that my wedding and my wedding night is still going to be special whether or not I walk down the aisle as a virgin or not.

[Toothfairy]

I was reading the Daily Fail, and sometimes it surprises me with what they post. I'm not breaking the link because the "most read website in the world" isn't going to care about FJ. The Daily Mail link is worth it for all the "related" links it shows in the middle of the article. I mean, heck, I just found out that Brazil still requires a virginity test or a clean pap smear for women educators, but at least they no longer require a colposcopy.

But seriously, men who take these virginity pledges struggle with sex like women do (noteably the whole shameful to sacred thing), especially since they are encouraged to talk about sex and support each other prior to having sex. However, once they do the deed they're essentially told that sharing anything about their sex life with others is disrespectful to their spouses so they lose the support they had prior to marriage.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2730692/Evangelical-virgin-men-pledge-abstinence-left-confused-married-struggle-new-sex-lives.html

For the article that they cribbed this info from, go here http://m.livescience.com/47431-virginity-pledging-men-sexually-confused.html

My husband didn't take a pledge but grew up religious. His parents sent him to Christian school and all of the kids were required to attend mandatory church activities concerning relationships, life skills, sex etc. I think he was sexually repressed at one point. He generally didn't share anything with anyone including sex. All he was told was not to do it it's sinful.

I just don't get how and why talking about sex before marriage is ok but after its mot

[browncoatslytherin]

growing up in the strict religious world i did, i attended a pre-teen/teen getaway. during said getaway, one of the things that was discussed was making the purity pledge, which, at 12 years old, i did. honestly, i didn't even know much about sex at all at that age (homeschooled, so no sex ed). i did even go as far as to say i wanted to save my first kiss for marriage, even.

of course, that changed when i was sexually assaulted at age 15. besides the emotional trauma of what happened, i think it was compounded over guilt that my purity pledge had been broken, even though i'd had no control over that. i would wonder if any fundie girls or boys who are sexually assaulted feel the same way, that they are defiled and unworthy and their guilt is compounded, even though the circumstances are out of their control. it seems like such a slippery slope with the whole set up. if someone wants to wait, that's fine, but i think it should be a personal decision that each individual person makes, and not something that someone does just because their religion tells them they should.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Ewwwww.

Did any part of your reaction involve saying "WTF are these people doing, sharing TMI about their sex lives with my 14 yr old?" I'm not a prude at all, but this just strikes me as being completely inappropriate.

I also truly hate the idea that it's legitimate to blame the fact that your spouse had sex with someone else before your marriage for ruining your relationship forever. You know what fucks up marriages? Blaming someone else because you have a hang-up even though they did nothing wrong to you, and never getting over it.

Seriously. Please tell me you at least made a complaint to whomever was in charge of this retreat. What kind of adult shares that kind of story with a bunch of young teens???