Church of Wells Deacon arrested

[Jana814]

Saw the Primetime show. I felt so bad for the families that the interviewed who's kids got involved w/ this group.

[oneperson]

Here's a link to a news report regarding the altercation at the parade:

www.ketknbc.com/news/exclusive-church-o ... d-followin

[jerkit]

I've spent an enormous amount of time yesterday and today reading their diatribes against their families. These huge, 50-page documents describing exactly why their families are so evil that they cannot associate with them.

Yet, I still cannot figure out exactly what this church believes. Their families, though overtly Christian, are not saved. But they aren't particularly clear as to why they aren't saved.

[oneperson]

I've spent an enormous amount of time yesterday and today reading their diatribes against their families. These huge, 50-page documents describing exactly why their families are so evil that they cannot associate with them.

Yet, I still cannot figure out exactly what this church believes. Their families, though overtly Christian, are not saved. But they aren't particularly clear as to why they aren't saved.

Jerkit...I've spent a lot of time too...reading their rebuttals and testimonies. I've not spent a lot of time on the long doctrinal essays though. But (as I'm sure you saw too), plenty of scriptures are used in their rebuttals and testimonies.

It seems to me that, according to CoW, for one to be "truly" saved, s/he must go through a struggle...a wrestling with God. And then, evidence of this salvation is, at least in part, that the now-saved person changes their lifestyle and behavior to lock-step with the various CoW doctrines. It appears anything put on a perceived higher priority than God is idolatry and is evidence that a person is not truly saved.

Personally, I can only speculate as to what may going on behind closed doors in individual CoW families. At some point, all this suppression comes out in one way or another.

I feel sure there must be members silently doubting in their hearts...a different wrestling now. At least I hope that is the case. If even a few make the exit, it will help the cards to hopefully scatter.

[jerkit]

Jerkit...I've spent a lot of time too...reading their rebuttals and testimonies. I've not spent a lot of time on the long doctrinal essays though. But (as I'm sure you saw too), plenty of scriptures are used in their rebuttals and testimonies.

It seems to me that, according to CoW, for one to be "truly" saved, s/he must go through a struggle...a wrestling with God. And then, evidence of this salvation is, at least in part, that the now-saved person changes their lifestyle and behavior to lock-step with the various CoW doctrines. It appears anything put on a perceived higher priority than God is idolatry and is evidence that a person is not truly saved.

Personally, I can only speculate as to what may going on behind closed doors in individual CoW families. At some point, all this suppression comes out in one way or another.

I feel sure there must be members silently doubting in their hearts...a different wrestling now. At least I hope that is the case. If even a few make the exit, it will help the cards to hopefully scatter.

I came away with the same impression. They did use a lot of scripture, but of course it was mostly pulled out of context and I didn't look everything up as I was reading, so I'm not sure how applicable the scripture actually is to their points.l

[oneperson]

This morning I was reading an article about Israel Keyesand the article linked to CoW's "Manifesto." I don't recall reading the Manifesto before. (Israel was the serial killer who committed suicide in December, 2012, whose mother and sister are CoW members and loyal followers.)

Below is the link to the CoW Manifesto...but it still doesn't specifically say what one has to do to be saved...other than salvation is a "miracle work - a mysterious work"...and then indicates that if someone is truly saved, they will walk in obedience.

The Manifesto then goes into maintaining the purity and unity of the church of Christ through the gift ministries as quoted in Ephesians. I think the Manifesto author, Jake Gardner, wants to come across as speaking of the church in general (and not just CoW)...and I would imagine that is what he thinks he believes. But...logically then...that has to come back to CoW doctrine being the standard for the true church.

If followers would only wake up to see that this same circle thinking prevails in other groups. It's a hard nut to crack once the indoctrination and fear is established in a follower's heart. But nuts do get cracked.

~thechurchofwells.com/our-manifesto.html

Lines like the following (from the Manifesto) are especially disturbing, imo:

"...Let no man think a trifle what God deems a matter of moment, and let no man make a mole hill of what God calls a mountain. The hill we stand upon to defend in the following Manifesto is the hill we have resolved to win, or to die upon...."

"

[jerkit]

I've moved from the rebuttals to their written testimonies. They all eerily use exactly the same language regarding their dealings with their families. What I'm reading between the lines is that these people are trying to beat their families over the head with scripture out of context and when the families don't like that, the CoW people throw their hands in the air and write in their testimonies "my family refused to go through the scriptures" and they wash their hands clean of their families.

I've watched about half of the footage on the "Times Square Church Exposed" they have posted on their website. I haven't figured out yet why they chose that specific church to rail against. It's pretty typical of most evangelical churches. Why they chose that one in particular, I don't know. Regardless, it boils down to the typical fundie refrain "They're not *our* type of Christian, so therefore they're not Christians at all."

[VictoriaLucas]

A letter from a Church of Wells elder to the people of Wells:

http://lufkindailynews.com/news/community/article_ee859722-c1c6-11e3-affd-001a4bcf887a.html

My favorite bit:

And if it comes to it that some of us must die, if it is appointed to us by God’s sovereignty that the wrath of Wells Texas cannot be abated until some from the Church of Wells do suffer martyrdom, then so be it. What a privilege it would be to lay down our lives for the elect’s sake! God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, yes, and He will give more of His sons for you, dear people of Wells! God willing some of our number!

They're freaking crazy. I wish I could get to Dairy Queen tomorrow.

[apple1]

A letter from a Church of Wells elder to the people of Wells:

http://lufkindailynews.com/news/community/article_ee859722-c1c6-11e3-affd-001a4bcf887a.html

My favorite bit:

They're freaking crazy. I wish I could get to Dairy Queen tomorrow.

Quite the drama queen.

Geez.

[ladyamylynn]

Online suicide note. Something is going to go down with them, if not now, soon.

[ViolaSebastian]

Online suicide note. Something is going to go down with them, if not now, soon.

Woah, shit. Link?

[ladyamylynn]

Woah, shit. Link?

That's how I interpreted this quote:

And if it comes to it that some of us must die, if it is appointed to us by God’s sovereignty that the wrath of Wells Texas cannot be abated until some from the Church of Wells do suffer martyrdom, then so be it. What a privilege it would be to lay down our lives for the elect’s sake! God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, yes, and He will give more of His sons for you, dear people of Wells! God willing some of our number!

Coupled with the increasing belligerence and escalation of violence/police confrontation associated with this group, I find it deeply troubling that Sean Morris would make these kinds of statements to the media. Just my 2 cents, however.

[ViolaSebastian]

No, it's definitely troubling. I worry that the vitriol could spread into outside violence as well.

[Chicken bones]

And ironically, he talks about how they aren't trying to divide families....

And we have pursued you all as our primary focus and desire. We desire whole households saved for the glory of God, not families divided!

[oneperson]

Dittos here...it is very concerning...the statements regarding martyrdom. I hope the law officials in and around Wells are taking these type statements with concern. I would hope they have learned some things post-Koresh.

I've read where some townspeople are interpreting Morris' statements as Morris indicating that the townspeople will react with physical altercation (again) and that if some CoW members are killed (in any sort of altercation), so be it.

I speculate that is (part of) what Morris is saying, or thinks he is saying (the narcissist that he appears to be)...and I would think that is how CoW members would interpret Morris' words...that the members will die if attacked. I don't know CoW's doctrine on suicide, but I would think CoW would teach suicide as sin.

That said....it's not far down a slippery slope from there to suicide...somehow finding a scripture or scriptures to rationalize an act of departure (suicide); part of that slippery slope being obedience to leadership (Morris).

[lemonhead]

I think the cult members would consider their deaths, in this circumstance, to be more like martyrdom than suicide. Dying as a martyr for the faith would probably be acceptable (maybe desirable) within their teachings.

[oneperson]

Here's a link to Lufkin Daily on FB. I've not read all the comments though.

https://www.facebook.com/lufkindaily/po ... eam_ref=10

Here's a link to the Catherine Groves FB page with the comments:

https://www.facebook.com/prayforcatheri ... eam_ref=10

[oneperson]

I think the cult members would consider their deaths, in this circumstance, to be more like martyrdom than suicide. Dying as a martyr for the faith would probably be acceptable (maybe desirable) within their teachings.

Good point. The leaders would somehow have to twist a suicide action to mean martyrdom. Hopefully nothing of the sort will happen....soon or sometime down the road.

[VictoriaLucas]

69ca43b5386146767219e561d80b8086

[mrs]

Good point. The leaders would somehow have to twist a suicide action to mean martyrdom. Hopefully nothing of the sort will happen....soon or sometime down the road.

I wonder if they are grooming the church members the way Jim Jones did with the idea of "revolutionary suicide." Such a sad situation.

[apple1]

http://www.kltv.com/video?clipId=100482 ... start=true

It is clear that Preethi ("elder" Sean Morris' wife) is acting as Catherine's "handler".