Why Quiverfull? A Mother Explains

[roddma]

She claims she isn't wanting to be like the Duggars, but throwing away birth control gives you a great chance of being like them. I tried ot tell her on Facebook Quiverfull sets formulas that don't work for everyone. And how is no birth control freeing when you likely get more kids than you could posisbly handle? Recent posts tell us what we shouldn't say to a mother of more than three. Then on the Nov 27 post she complains about lack of sleep. What did they expect?

 

honestlymotherhood.wordpress.com/2013/12/10/why-quiverful/

[gustava]

1. She's an idiot.

2. OP...break the link, please.

[JMarie]

honestlymotherhood.wordpress.com/2013/12/03/let-your-child-struggle/

I find it ridiculously sad and embarrassing when most college grads expect to be hired soon after receiving their diploma. Not only that, they expect a job that exactly corresponds to their degree and expect a salary they feel that piece of paper entitles them to.

Umm, yeah, that's how it works. Why go to college if you don't expect to get hired? Guess they would know that if they'd attended college.

[debrand]

Children born to a young man

are like arrows in a warrior’s hands.

How joyful is the man whose quiver is full of them!

He will not be put to shame when he confronts his accusers at the city gates. Ps. 127:4-5

Didn't Paul say that if you keep on part of the law, you have to keep all the laws? Why do some Christians use the Old Testament to justify their beliefs or lifestyle and yet get upset when anyone asks why they don't keep slaves or force rape victims to marry their attackers? Nit picking the bible like this seems disrespectful to me and I am a non believer. Also, the last verse seems to indicate that these large number of children were needed to protect the family from attackers.

We want all God can give us when it comes to money, good health, possessions, and time to relax. We would never say, “no, Lord, you keep that extra money you tried to give us. No more Lord.†We would never say, “Oh, God, please can you stop with the awesome material things you keep allowing us to have?†But yet, we want to limit and not trust God when it comes to children. S

Thankfully, she didn't use that idiotic flower analogy of the Duggars. I do not want endless number of flowers growing in all in my lawn. Those are called weeds and I try to prevent them. As for this particular analogy, children are not money or good health or possessions. Children are individuals who demand our care and time. They are a huge responsibility.

All because why? Because of the additional responsibility? Because children are expensive? Because I may not be able to afford 4 trips to the beach every year? Because I may have to pay for a bigger vehicle, another wedding, or another college tuition?

Yes, to all of these. And I would add, "Because I don't want anymore kids" as a good enough reason too.

Children are NOT expensive, lifestyles are. God doesn’t bring you to something and turn His back. If He provides another family member, He will provide all the needs that your growing family needs.

My family is in constant need of dental care. I have no idea why we have such problems with our teeth but we do. Dental work is expensive! So, her god wants my kids to have bad teeth?

We are raising Gods army, we are hopefully raising a mighty generation of missionaries and warriors for God and His purposes.

I hate the military imagery that so many fundies use.

[roddma]

Opps forgot to break the link my bad

We want all God can give us when it comes to money, good health, possessions, and time to relax. We would never say, “no, Lord, you keep that extra money you tried to give us. No more Lord.†We would never say, “Oh, God, please can you stop with the awesome material things you keep allowing us to have?†But yet, we want to limit and not trust God when it comes to children.

That is comparing apples to oranges IMO. Material things don't require your 24/7 attention nor food, education, and clothing. I can turn off this computer anytime. You can't do that with a living breathing human. Is good health a bad thing? Ghees.

[lilwriter85]

I don't have kids, but I think this blogger is an idiot with the whole "Children are NOT expensive, lifestyles are" belief. Children are apart of a lifestyle, children don't need to be always spoiled, but they do their necessities like food, shelter, clothing, and dental/healthcare which should be tied a decent and stable lifestyle.

[Jana814]

I don't have kids, but I think this blogger is an idiot with the whole "Children are NOT expensive, lifestyles are" belief. Children are apart of a lifestyle, children don't need to be always spoiled, but they do their necessities like food, shelter, clothing, and dental/healthcare which should be tied a decent and stable lifestyle.

Agree!

[louisa05]

A very close friend of mine had her seventh child this spring. They are not Quiverful. However, I think her mindset is similar to some QF women at this point. She has always struggled with what her identity is. She was taught all the submission nonsense when her family became fundy lite when she was around 11 years old. From that point on--at a rather critical juncture in someone's developing their own identity--she tried to conform her personality to the outside expectations of parents and church. She has never truly found out who she is and what she wants. And all these children have become her identity. In the small town they live in, they are now rather well known for this huge family (that they can barely afford) and motherhood defines her and there is nothing else she has investment or pride in. She home schools and is involved in nothing outside of having, schooling, and caring for children (as a former elementary teacher, she is at least qualified to home school for now). She and her husband go out alone ONCE a year--and that is only because her parents insist on it. They can't afford a newspaper, an internet connection or cable. She has very little idea what is going on in the world. Her children are her only world. And when she stops having more babies and they gradually don't need her as much and people stop fawning over her cute little ones or admiring her for handling it all so well (and this last one is likely the last given her age), she will have no identity left. I think that QF women fall into the same situation.

[treehugger]

Oh god, another woman trying to tell me that kids are not expensive? Give me a fucking break. Just clothing my daughter is expensive. I dropped $200+ for one winter season worth of clothing for my kid. Yes, I scoured thrift shops, but our weather gets to -50 C over here, and you had better believe I am going to spend some money on some warm winter clothes. And, we had a growth spurt halfway through winter, so I had to buy 2 snowsuits, 2 sets of boots, 2 hats, etc…. And this is for 1 kid. If we were poor, I don't really know what we'd have done. If we had more than one kid, this winter could have easily cost us a pay check in clothing alone. And this doesn't include good food, added medical expenses (we live in socialist Canada, so we are fortunate that way), and any other unexpected expenses.

While I know so many people get by borrowing kids clothes off of friends, we live about 2000 km from any family or close friends with kids. All our friends here are either single or married but no kids. If I can't find it in thrift stores, I have to buy new.

[formergothardite]

Children are not objects to be collected. If you are going to claim to value children, then stop treating them like a material possession and start treating them like an individual human that has their own wants and needs.

[dawbs]

Opps forgot to break the link my bad

That is comparing apples to oranges IMO. Material things don't require your 24/7 attention nor food, education, and clothing. I can turn off this computer anytime. You can't do that with a living breathing human. Is good health a bad thing? Ghees.

This is one of the teachings that infuriates me--that I, and people like me, are turning away blessings.

If we're going to go all Old Testament, lets bounce to the story of Gideon for a moment, and the laying out of fleeces ("laying out your fleece" is a fundie-dom thing, FWIW).

Paraphrased badly, the story: Gideon gets a clear message from God about going to war/battle. He wants to be sure this is God, because being slaughtered isn't fun. He prays and says "God, if this message is really from you, I'd like a sign. If I wake up in the morning, and the ground is dry, but this fleece is wet, I'll know the message is from you."

Gideon wakes up to a dry ground and a wet fleece.

Then Gideon has a 'duh' sort of moment--he realizes that, generally speaking, dew evaporates off of ground before the fleece would be dry. Whoops.

So, he prays again, something like "God, uh, one more sign. If I wake up in the morning and the fleece is dry but the ground is wet, then I'll know that it's REALLY a message from you" (side note--Gideon doesn't get in trouble for asking God for this. Reflection, logic, doubts--none of those things are vilified). Of course, the next morning, the fleece is dry, the ground is wet, the message is from God, and Gideon goes to war and slaughters his enemies.

So, as someone who would, if I got knocked up (in spite of infertility and an IUD) tomorrow, be committed to having another baby (and who might be secretly thrilled in some ways, but, that's another discussion :lol: ), I'm not turning away blessings--I'm laying out my fleece and asking that the fleece be wet and the ground dry--I'm asking God (the fundie all-powerful God capable of theoretically having virgins give birth) to make a clear 'supernatural' sign if I'm to have another kid--instead of the quiverful approach that's the opposite--"OH, the sky is blue, the grass is green, therefore, God is CLEARLY saying to have more kids!"

[Jana814]

Children are not objects to be collected. If you are going to claim to value children, then stop treating them like a material possession and start treating them like an individual human that has their own wants and needs.

Agree! Fundie's don't do that. Steve Maxwell is someone who insists that your kids should have not identity.

[lizziesmom]

A very close friend of mine had her seventh child this spring. They are not Quiverful. However, I think her mindset is similar to some QF women at this point. She has always struggled with what her identity is. She was taught all the submission nonsense when her family became fundy lite when she was around 11 years old. From that point on--at a rather critical juncture in someone's developing their own identity--she tried to conform her personality to the outside expectations of parents and church. She has never truly found out who she is and what she wants. And all these children have become her identity. In the small town they live in, they are now rather well known for this huge family (that they can barely afford) and motherhood defines her and there is nothing else she has investment or pride in. She home schools and is involved in nothing outside of having, schooling, and caring for children (as a former elementary teacher, she is at least qualified to home school for now). She and her husband go out alone ONCE a year--and that is only because her parents insist on it. They can't afford a newspaper, an internet connection or cable. She has very little idea what is going on in the world. Her children are her only world. And when she stops having more babies and they gradually don't need her as much and people stop fawning over her cute little ones or admiring her for handling it all so well (and this last one is likely the last given her age), she will have no identity left. I think that QF women fall into the same situation.

Sounds exactly like Michele Duggar to me.

[Conuly]

Just clothing my daughter is expensive. I dropped $200+ for one winter season worth of clothing for my kid. Yes, I scoured thrift shops, but our weather gets to -50 C over here, and you had better believe I am going to spend some money on some warm winter clothes.

In fairness to them, clothes are about the one thing that doesn't have to cost more just because you have more than one child, because the smaller ones get hand me downs from the older ones.

Of course, that depends on you buying decent quality clothing, being good at mending, and having a fairly tolerant attitude about stains. And it only scales so well - sooner or later healthy children WILL wear through their clothing to the point where it is no longer even suitable for play.

Of course, children have other costs. You can't give hand me down food, they won't share beds forever, you might like to have them in at least one extracurricular, they will want some toys or books of their own, not to mention school supplies, and if you DO need to go to work, you're going to have to wrangle childcare for the small ones.

[gibbsgirls]

Looks like a fangirl has linked our thread in her comments section:

"kathy

December 16, 2013 at 9:17 pm

The wonderful people at Free Jinger have decided to gang up on you. You are in my prayers!

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20407

Reply"

I wonder which FJ'ite has tattle-tailed? :(

[debrand]

Looks like a fangirl has linked our thread in her comments section:

"kathy

December 16, 2013 at 9:17 pm

The wonderful people at Free Jinger have decided to gang up on you. You are in my prayers!

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20407

Reply"

I wonder which FJ'ite has tattle-tailed? :(

Kathy is free to respond.

Adolescents are expensive and that has nothing to do with my lifestyle. Well, unless my lifestyle includes feeding people who never seem to be full. My children are skinny things and yet they eat all the time. I would love it if braces were free or my youngest daughter's physical therapy was free. My girls are two years apart so we can no longer pass down clothing from one to the other.

[doggie]

Braces and dentists are ungodly.

[happy atheist]

Looks like a fangirl has linked our thread in her comments section:

"kathy

December 16, 2013 at 9:17 pm

The wonderful people at Free Jinger have decided to gang up on you. You are in my prayers!

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20407

Reply"

I wonder which FJ'ite has tattle-tailed? :(

It's HGR.

[Evilbad]

"Blah blah blah god is controlling our lives blah blah blah raising godly soldiers blah blah blah blatant uterus abuse blah blah head of household blah blah blah homeschool blah blah blah lots of helpers blah blah blah conviction and purposed to blah blah"

[Melissa1977]

She thinks that everybody has money. In her mind, some people spend money in cars or holidays and others spend money on kids.

Well, someone should explain her that some people has not money at all. Millons of families around the world stave and God isn't helping them. And yes, some of these families are christian.

What will she do if her husband dies or becomes very sick? Who will provide for her and her kids? She probably hopes church will help or a miracle would happen. But there aren't many men willing to marry a widow-mother-of-seven.

[formergothardite]

Looks like a fangirl has linked our thread in her comments section:

"kathy

December 16, 2013 at 9:17 pm

The wonderful people at Free Jinger have decided to gang up on you. You are in my prayers!

http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewto ... =8&t=20407

Reply"

I wonder which FJ'ite has tattle-tailed? :(

Well if she is reading here I hope she realizes that children are not material possessions or plants which is why they can't be compared to them. It actually dehumanizes children to be all "Children are like flowers/money/material possessions and if God blessed with those we wouldn't say stop." Children actually are a blessing, which is why they should be treated that way and their needs and desires should not be sacrificed just to collect more children. If you have to steal the childhood of the oldest children and force them to help raise their siblings then you aren't treating children like a blessing, you are treating them like objects.

[August]

Barring infertility, for some people money is the limiting factor, for most it's time, energy, etc. I have the number of children I am able to mother well. If you love your children, you would want them to be well parented.

[roddma]

Sounds exactly like Michele Duggar to me.

And Kelly Bates. Didn't she say something like she felt natural holding a newborn once? I think they have a baby addiction and/or a need for attention and don't care if it's positive or negative. The kids also help get them donations . What are they gonna do when the kids are all grown up? Baby addictions can happen to non-religious people.

[Jana814]

Barring infertility, for some people money is the limiting factor, for most it's time, energy, etc. I have the number of children I am able to mother well. If you love your children, you would want them to be well parented.

Most people would feel the same way. However the women that we talk about here don't feel that way.