Say Goodbye to the Frumper & T-Shirts Under Dresses?

[Ralar]

For secular shoppers and modesty-conscious women alike, 2014 is the year of the long-sleeve, crew-neck, knee-length sheath dress.

http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/156043/2014-the-year-of-the-modest-sheath-dress

[tropaka]

Kinda form-fitting and not really new, but a big improvement if some fundies wear them.

[uber frau]

We'll be seeing them this year in the younger set of what was VF royalty, next year for the equivalent in ATI and the rest will be wearing them two to five years from now (when they hit the second hand market). They are very not breastfeeding/pregnancy friendly though, so I don't think they'll ever be as popular as the good, old frumper for those of childbearing age.

[artdecades]

maxi and midi skirts have been popular with the fashion set for a while now. I would love to see some fundies trying to dress like a tumblr "soft goth"

[Chicken bones]

Those dresses require a good body to look good. I dot see anyone but the younger women, pre-procreation, wearing them. But they could look great.

Slightly off topic confession: I'd love to find a big ugly flowered frumper to wear to a "Come As You Aren't" party a friend had been known to host.

[Dysfundamental]

Modern Orthodox women in my city already wear similar dresses (Narciso Rodriguez is popular among wealthy socialite MO ladies), and you see that look on some of the Mormon fashion bloggers, but I don't see it taking off among either Hasidic or frumper-lovin' Christian fundie communities.

[August]

That article was so bizzarre. "modest and a little bit sexy". Decide. Do you want to be sexy, or not-sexy? Religious people are such morons.

[miffy]

This style has been around for 5 or 6 years. Hemlines always fall & makeup sales rise when there is a recession.

[lagenialester]

Modern Orthodox women in my city already wear similar dresses (Narciso Rodriguez is popular among wealthy socialite MO ladies), and you see that look on some of the Mormon fashion bloggers, but I don't see it taking off among either Hasidic or frumper-lovin' Christian fundie communities.

Yeah, I've actually seen this type of dress in Chabad communities as well. (I think of chabadniks as sort of "fashion conscious" hassidim)

[longskirts]

That article was so bizzarre. "modest and a little bit sexy". Decide. Do you want to be sexy, or not-sexy? Religious people are such morons.

It's a Jewish site, and many Jews think of modesty in terms of parts of the body that are covered and not whether it looks hot or attracts attention. It is not the same idea of modesty that Christians have.

[actuallyjessica]

I found a modern modest fashion blog, run by a Mormon.

Here are some of the blog outfits (and also from across the web) that could be perfect for the younger fundy women:

add a higher-cut tank top underneath, et viola!

add a bolero for more modesty:

[2xx1xy1JD]

I saw those style dresses at H&M the other day, and thought "that looks like something an Orthodox company put out a few years ago".

They look comfy. I don't think I'd wear them on their own, because I don't have a perfectly flat tummy, but it could work with the right jacket or vest.

[ohkirra]

Oh dear. Came here thinking there was some huge Wholesomewear scandal, instead I discovered I dress like a relatively fashionable fundie.

[sparkles]

At my job, we do work for quite a few Chabads and the rabbis' wives are always extremely up-to-date and stylish--not a What Not to Wear candidate among them. The one we deal with most often wears very form fitting dresses and looks phenomenal, despite at least 10 pregnancies (it's definitely over 10 but we lost count a long time ago). It IS possible to be modest but still fashionable. Most fundies, however, seem to really enjoy using their style of dress (or lack thereof) to scream "LOOK AT MEEEEEE! I'M SO MODEST" from the rooftops.

[Carla Bruni]

I do wonder about their understanding of evolutionary biology, though. Like a collarbone is defrauding, but contoured boobs & hips are a-okay? What do they think cro-magnon men thought when selecting a woman for their cave? "ME SEE COLLARBONE = OOOOH ME SPREAD SEED TO PRODUCE OFFSPRING"?!

I have yet to meet a man who wants to drop his pants at the sight of a female knee, yet I can guarantee every *heterosexual guy is mentally sizing up the Duggar girls' chests in their "modest" (totally form-fitting) t-shirts. Seriously now.

[2xx1xy1JD]

At my job, we do work for quite a few Chabads and the rabbis' wives are always extremely up-to-date and stylish--not a What Not to Wear candidate among them. The one we deal with most often wears very form fitting dresses and looks phenomenal, despite at least 10 pregnancies (it's definitely over 10 but we lost count a long time ago). It IS possible to be modest but still fashionable. Most fundies, however, seem to really enjoy using their style of dress (or lack thereof) to scream "LOOK AT MEEEEEE! I'M SO MODEST" from the rooftops.

To be perfectly fair, looking good is part of the outreach effort. There's a part in Sue Fishkoff's book "The Rebbe's Army" where she mentions advice given during a convention for outreach rabbi's wives (I'm trying to translate "schlucha" into English - these women aren't just married to rabbis, they are one half of an outreach couple and actively engaged in outreach work). One speaker was heard giving advice that women in the community would be more receptive to listening to a woman who looked good and had a smile on her face, instead of looking miserable and frumpy and worn down.

BTW, if you like Persian food and want to see a more religious version of a Nigella Lawson-style cooking video, check this out:

Her food is awesome (I have the cookbook), but how on earth does she manage to look like that after 5 kids? Or to cook with full makeup and jewellery?

[sparkles]

To be perfectly fair, looking good is part of the outreach effort. There's a part in Sue Fishkoff's book "The Rebbe's Army" where she mentions advice given during a convention for outreach rabbi's wives (I'm trying to translate "schlucha" into English - these women aren't just married to rabbis, they are one half of an outreach couple and actively engaged in outreach work). One speaker was heard giving advice that women in the community would be more receptive to listening to a woman who looked good and had a smile on her face, instead of looking miserable and frumpy and worn down.

BTW, if you like Persian food and want to see a more religious version of a Nigella Lawson-style cooking video, check this out:

Her food is awesome (I have the cookbook), but how on earth does she manage to look like that after 5 kids? Or to cook with full makeup and jewellery?

Definitely, it's all about outreach and looking good is part of the package. Given the area where I work--Long Island's Gold Coast--appearance is even more important, so I wouldn't expect the wives (most of whom are responsible for running the preschools, in addition to everything else they do) to look anything but stylish, nor to I begrudge them that. When I have to dress up (which I try to make sure is as infrequent as possible--work clothes are jeans, Docs and t-shirts), I tend to wear clothes similar to "Chabad Chic," although not as form-fitting. I've found myself in J.Jill, asking myself, "Hmm, what would Sarah wear?"

LOVE persian food, so I'll have to check out your link.

[Dinorah]

I like that style of dresses and would wear them. I'm always on the hunt for winter dresses since I love wearing dresses--you slip one on and are done with your outfit.

[Ralar]

Definitely, it's all about outreach and looking good is part of the package. Given the area where I work--Long Island's Gold Coast--appearance is even more important, so I wouldn't expect the wives (most of whom are responsible for running the preschools, in addition to everything else they do) to look anything but stylish, nor to I begrudge them that. When I have to dress up (which I try to make sure is as infrequent as possible--work clothes are jeans, Docs and t-shirts), I tend to wear clothes similar to "Chabad Chic," although not as form-fitting. I've found myself in J.Jill, asking myself, "Hmm, what would Sarah wear?"

LOVE persian food, so I'll have to check out your link.

By "Long Island's Gold Coast" do you mean Great Neck area (my family is very involved in Chabad there)? If so, there is plenty of great Persian food right there -- but it is expensive.

[AuntCloud]

2XX1XY1JA, thank you so much for that youtube channel. The food looks amazing, especially to someone like me whose grandmas only cooked Eastern European food (which can be great, but let's admit it - it takes a lot of effort to make fantastic gefilte).

Israelis are very casual dressers, and whenever a question pops up at a parenting forum in the lines of "help! my son needs a suit/my daughter needs a *nice* dress", the usual advice is to go to one of the Orthodox areas and shop there. It's easier for me to shop in Canada as my taste is a bit more conservative than what a typical Israeli store offers, but it's not in the orthodox realm either. One of the adjustments I had to make after moving to Canada was to realize you can't really guess a person's level of religiousness based on their clothes. In Israel it's almost an art form, with each sub-stream of religion has their own characteristic fashion statements. Denim skirts are worn by right-wing religious groups but are a big no-no in orthodox groups, the shape/size of the hat, wig/scarf/hat are big dividers, and so on and so forth.

[sparkles]

By "Long Island's Gold Coast" do you mean Great Neck area (my family is very involved in Chabad there)? If so, there is plenty of great Persian food right there -- but it is expensive.

Definitely, and most of the Nassau/Suffolk North Shore. I've eaten in a couple of the GN restaurants, and snack at some of the smaller deli/grocery places too when I'm in town. Good stuff.

I took a class last year with Jennifer Abadi, who specializes in Syrian-Jewish cuisine and wrote "A Fistful of Lentils." It was awesome. A lot of her recipes are on regular rotation at Casa Sparkles.

[dairyfreelife]

I do wonder about their understanding of evolutionary biology, though. Like a collarbone is defrauding, but contoured boobs & hips are a-okay? What do they think cro-magnon men thought when selecting a woman for their cave? "ME SEE COLLARBONE = OOOOH ME SPREAD SEED TO PRODUCE OFFSPRING"?!

I have yet to meet a man who wants to drop his pants at the sight of a female knee, yet I can guarantee every *heterosexual guy is mentally sizing up the Duggar girls' chests in their "modest" (totally form-fitting) t-shirts. Seriously now.

Not necessarily. Men interested in breasts tend to come from cultures where women cover up more. In countries where women go topless, boobs are not interesting to them. Babies like boobs, not grown men, at least that's how they feel in their culture. Basically, the more people cover up, the more showing any skin not normally seen in adults becomes temptation. Like in some cultures where women are covered and only their eyes show, men say eyes become "tempting".

[Ralar]

Definitely, and most of the Nassau/Suffolk North Shore. I've eaten in a couple of the GN restaurants, and snack at some of the smaller deli/grocery places too when I'm in town. Good stuff.

I took a class last year with Jennifer Abadi, who specializes in Syrian-Jewish cuisine and wrote "A Fistful of Lentils." It was awesome. A lot of her recipes are on regular rotation at Casa Sparkles.

I'm still shocked that Bruce's closed. Where am I going to get my rainbow cookies?!?!

I'll have to look for her cookbooks. I love Sephardic food, even though nothing beats a nice pot of Hungarian stuffed cabbage with lots of flanken.

[August]

It's a Jewish site, and many Jews think of modesty in terms of parts of the body that are covered and not whether it looks hot or attracts attention. It is not the same idea of modesty that Christians have.

They're both equally stupid then? Actually, being as sexy as you can but making sure skin is covered is even stupider than drawing attention to yourself by being 'modest'.

[longskirts]

They're both equally stupid then? Actually, being as sexy as you can but making sure skin is covered is even stupider than drawing attention to yourself by being 'modest'.

Why is it stupider? It doesn't conform to Christian conceptions of modesty and its purpose, that's all.

If you're trying not to "defraud" people then covering up while looking sexy is pointless, but if that's not your goal, what's the problem?