Let the war on Halloween begin *rolls eyes* *shakes head*

[Black Aliss]

Reading (okay, skimming because I can't stomach her *facial expressions*) about their homeschooling, I wonder why she is so obsessed about being taken to court some day? Unless, of course, they not only live in the same area as Larry and Carri Williams (may they rot), but follow the same child-beating practices.

[anjulibai]

I noticed this, too. And I have to say that even though I have not been a practicing Catholic since I was confirmed as a teenager, I did take offense to her declaration of being ignorant of how Catholics "worship" the savior Jesus Christ. I thought it was very condescending. While I will never go back to the Catholic Church for many reasons, most Catholics I know wouldn't even be considered fundie lite, but are mainstream, normal people who happen to honor a Christian faith. Also, not many people realize this, but what we now call "the big bang theory" is based upon the work of a Belgian physicist, who was also a Catholic priest. At least the Catholic Church has made valuable intellectual contributions to science, not to forget Mendel's work in genetics... And most Catholics and priests that I know accept evolution as fact. I am not a fan of this blogger's haughty attitude, considering she believes pagan is akin to devil worship and most likely, that woman came from man's rib cage :angry-banghead:

Yeah, not only is evolution accepted, it's actually an element of dogma in the modern Catholic Church. Science explains how, and to say otherwise is a form of heresy.

The Church might not like a lot of things that science creates (like contraception) and many Catholic groups spread misinformation (like about STDs), but the official belief is that science is right about how God created the universe and humanity.

I'm with you in that most Catholics I know are very mainstream. Abigail of Abigail's Alcove is a total aberration.

[docmom]

Jesus would not have gone trick or treating, nor would he have bobbed for apples. *smirk* That's really all you need to know. *giggle*

How does she know? Was she there???

(classic fundie argument against evolution)

[lilwriter85]

My fundie lite neighbors that lived near my family when I was growing up didn't celebrate Halloween. They went to a small non-denominational church and every year on Halloween their church hosted a potluck and sometimes they would watch a Christian movie. Some Assemblies of God churches don't celebrate Halloween. One of my high school teachers was an AOG minister and his church didn't celebrate it and they also hosted potlucks. ZsuZsu has blogged about how the strip mall church has their chilli cook off events on Halloween. I recall another fundie blogger talking about going to a church event on Halloween.

[ThatSnark]

Oh, our neighbors across the street were part of the Satanic Panic craze in the 80s. They spent Halloween in their basement praying for our souls while we were out filling our bags with candy. As I got older, I made increasingly demonic jack-o-lantern faces to face their house; it probably just confirmed that we were being taken by Satan.

[slickcat79]

Also, Erika's well-informed reply to "What about pagan origins of Christmas and Easter?" (which are well-founded; the Catholic evangelists simply took the local holiday and converted it to Jesus back in the day.) :

"I've researched Christmas and Easter for our family, too, and have not found the supposedly pagan origins to be accurate. If you look hard enough you can find what others claim to be pagan origins, but from my research those both have completely Christ-centered origins and we celebrate them as such."

Homeskool. Teach them YOUR truth, not THE truth.

Unless she tells me they also celebrate christmas in the spring, that is complete bullshit. She should at least be able to acknowledge that the biblical christmas story could not possibly have taken place in the middle of winter :?

[lilwriter85]

The fundie lite neighbors that I mentioned in a previous post were also against Christmas trees. I don't remember if they said why they were against them. Has anyone else heard about this?

[ThatSnark]

The fundie lite neighbors that I mentioned in a previous post were also against Christmas trees. I don't remember if they said why they were against them. Has anyone else heard about this?

Yes, absolutely! The origin of Christmas trees, from History.com:

Long before the advent of Christianity, plants and trees that remained green all year had a special meaning for people in the winter. Just as people today decorate their homes during the festive season with pine, spruce, and fir trees, ancient peoples hung evergreen boughs over their doors and windows. In many countries it was believed that evergreens would keep away witches, ghosts, evil spirits, and illness.

In the Northern hemisphere, the shortest day and longest night of the year falls on December 21 or December 22 and is called the winter solstice. Many ancient people believed that the sun was a god and that winter came every year because the sun god had become sick and weak. They celebrated the solstice because it meant that at last the sun god would begin to get well. Evergreen boughs reminded them of all the green plants that would grow again when the sun god was strong and summer would return.

So it predates Jesus; therefore, it's bad.

[dolcecigno]

What do fundies believe of people who lived before the birth of JC? Were Pagans supposed to listen quietly for the Lord to speak to their hearts? Was the Holy Spirit just waiting for them to seek so they could find? Are they now burning in the bowels of hell for not having anticipated God's word?

[LittleMama]

We don't do Halloween right now. My girls are both under four and I personally don't think it would be nice to put them out where there are lots of scary scenes. If everything was m&m's and Yoda sure, but until my girls show interest in zombies or fake blood we will pass, just don't want to be the fault of bad dreams, crying fits... Etc. (We also celebrate St. Nickolas day instead of Xmas, in total Dutch flair.). :D

[FiddleDD]

Just a personal anecdote from the other side....

Our kids grew up not celebrating Halloween. Neither my husband nor I ever liked it growing up, and it just didn't feel right for us to do it with our children, so we didn't. They had plenty of fun when they were little with other celebrations in our church (lots of Orthodox saints' days, big harvest festival on a friend's farm, lots of fun traditions at Nativity and Pascha), and we've always encouraged lots of imaginary play and dress-up at home. They are all teens now, and they don't feel they missed out on anything.

The Baptist church we are currently attending does a Trunk or Treat for the community, and they are more than welcome to dress up and go to that if they like; we allow them to make their own choices now when it comes to things like that and their own spiritual journeys.

I would never DREAM of condemning or telling someone else not to celebrate Halloween or you are bad because you do, etc. That is Beeswax, Not Mine, Inc.

My cousin loves Halloween and goes all out. He is a lifelong Star Wars fanatic and he has a complete, very authentic looking Darth Vader costume that he wears every year. :D

ETA: the way that woman writes *cringe* makes me want to gag *puke*. :ew:

I never celebrated Halloween either, and I have to say, I never felt left out. (My mom used to take me to the stores the next day and we'd buy tons of discount candy. And if I hasn't been a giant as a kid, I'm sure she would have shopped in the sale costumes too. Luckily she sewed so I had lots of dress up clothes.) Like the above poster, I do not judge those who choose to celebrate. Of they want to know why I don't, I'll tell them, but telling someone they're a horrible person because they do is just... honestly I just can't even fathom why someone would do that. Everyone has to make their own decisions. Their business, not mine.

[anjulibai]

What do fundies believe of people who lived before the birth of JC? Were Pagans supposed to listen quietly for the Lord to speak to their hearts? Was the Holy Spirit just waiting for them to seek so they could find? Are they now burning in the bowels of hell for not having anticipated God's word?

Yeah, I always wonder about that, too. I think it's something they don't like to talk about because it makes God sound like such a dick, but I do think many believe that those born before the Jesus's ministry (or even his death) are in hell. Some might not be, like a few of the characters from the Old Testament, but the majority of the world's population would be.

[AnywhereButHere]

Jesus would not have gone trick or treating, nor would he have bobbed for apples. *smirk* That's really all you need to know. *giggle*

Jesus never drove a car, flew in an airplane, cooked on an electric (or gas) stove, or ate Kraft Macaroni & Cheese. Hey, if we're going to limit our experiences, let's go all the way!

There is nothing Christian about this pagan holiday. Nothing what so ever. It is one of the two biggest satanic holidays of the entire year - recognized even by both the US Air Force, and a state prison.

A. What's the second most recognized satanic holiday? Or don't I want to know?

B. I love the vastly diametric support she lists for her position. The Air Force and a prison. Really?

And dang, I know I overuse the smiley options on occasion/all the time, but her descriptors make me want to :x :pull-hair: :disgust: :wtf: :angry-banghead:

[Minerva]

The evangelical family who went to my school didn't celebrate Halloween. The difference is they weren't douchebags about it.

[RosyDaisy]

Another thing is that when Halloween falls on Sunday, Mormons will celebrate it the day before because to them, it's a violation of the Sabbath as a holy day. That's also the case when the 4th of July in the US falls on Sunday, as in Utah and other heavily Mormon areas, they have their big fireworks shows on the 3rd.

That's when it's celebrated here in Tiny Town, and probably the entire state of Alabama. That's because it would conflict with Sunday evening worship services. At my church, we give out goodie bags to the kids when Halloween falls on Sunday.

[FreeJosie]

I don't understand why people can't just let their kids dress up and have fun, if that's what they want, regardless of origins. I know Halloween is censored in m niece's school. It is called Who Day and only the teachers can dress up.

When I was a kid, I could go into elementary school dressed up and participate in a Halloween parade. Times have definitely changed.

My son's elementary school still does a Halloween parade.

Who Day sounds like a bummer for the kids!

[Mecca]

I find her use of *chuckle*, *smile*, and *laugh* way creepier than anything Satan could do on Halloween.

[tehfanglyfish]

For part of my childhood, I was raised by my extremely religious grandparents who essentially were the backbone of their conservative church (they cleaned it, got there first on Sundays to set things up, etc.) and we always celebrated Halloween. They didn't view it as Satanic; it was just an excuse to decorate and have fun. In fact all the elderly folks (who were also religious) in our community liked it because it meant that the grandkid-age children got driven around (rural area - not walking distance) to visit. In many ways, it was a day to visit extended family.

[ShadowyOne]

Halloween is MrShadowy's absolutely favorite holiday ever. He plans a new costume every year, and decorates the whole front of the house. Last year we were moving the week of Halloween, and I think that he was at least half serious when he wanted to put up the decorations, only to have to pack them up again immediately. I was at our old, nearly empty house on Halloween by myself, finishing up last minute things, and was sad when kids rang the doorbell, knowing I had nothing for them. This year, we will have a two-month old, and he has been planning her costume since before she was born (candy corn, don't ask me why). So they can pry Halloween from our cold, dead hands (he's an ebil Catholic, anyway).

[Pinkgirl81]

I don't participate in Halloween with my children (ages 10 1/2 and almost 2) and my 10 1/2 yr old has never really questioned it or been overtly curious about it. It's just something we don't do and she's been ok with it. No clue how my almost 2 yr old will take it, but I guess if you don't make a big deal out of it neither will your kids. And just because this is what I've chosen for my family, doesn't make anyone else more right or more wrong if they choose to participate/not participate in the holiday.

[chaotic life]

I did a research project on the realities of the occult (satanism) and Halloween while I was attending Christian college. I read an autobiography written by a former high priest Satanist now Christian, and studied a lot of other material

She's talking about Mike Warnke. There's a reason she doesn't include him in her actual "resources," nor any other warlock turned Christian who wrote books. They have been debunked over and over and over again. Mike Warnke is a fraud, but he was all the rave when she was in college...back when Ray Boltz was on Christian radio all the time and firmly in the cloest too.

This is how most of the research is established. You start with someone who writes an expose, and conveniently forget that all actual crime data says there is no such thing as satanic crimes, especially the child sacrifices. Then, they build a story upon those exposes.

That she was even allowed to attempt a research project like that, I'll guess she went to someone like Liberty, BJU or the ilk. Her nonsense could cut the muster anywhere but such places.

I do have to say, I find it oxymoronic that Christians can be so focused on God, Heaven, Christ, etc and yet be so terrified of death, as if it is indeed the mortal enemy. What mention of death that appears with Halloween does NOT scare my children. They understand that death is just part of life, and no one is immune even if they believe they are.

[lilah]

anyone want to share some evidence with her that christmas and easter have as many pagan roots as halloween? I'd do it except I'm posting on my phone and blogger keeps eating my posts

[OkToBeTakei]

:lol:

Apparently Catholics aren't christian.

Erica *smile* is a one woman cult with her kids as the victims.

[Conuly]

anyone want to share some evidence with her that christmas and easter have as many pagan roots as halloween? I'd do it except I'm posting on my phone and blogger keeps eating my posts

Evidence and facts come from the devil.

I'm caught up on "answering the door or going out would expose our kids to scary costumes!" It must be a regional thing, because I haven't seen a scary costume in years. It's all princesses and pirates-without-weapons in the early years and no costume at all (except they put on a mask for me, because my rule,is no costume, no candy*) for the older ones.

* I make exceptions for those kids with a creative explanation of why their non-costume counts, and those shepherding younger brothers and sisters on the grounds that they've given up their holiday and can do with something nice.

[Hane]

Ohhhhhhh, I don't want to get started with old pagan harvest festivals and Catholic commemorations of souls and saints that have gone before us...

People like Erika just plain will not recogniza anything that doesn't fit neatly into their own agenda. Once on a shuttle bus at work, we passed a schoolyard where children in Halloween costumes were having a parade. The bus driver tut-tutted and said, "That's Satan's own holiday. You can look it up in any dictionary." Even though I was the only other person on the bus, I was too gobsmacked by the utter stupidity of the comment to say a word, and didn't want to pull the college-educated-white-woman-pwns-working-class-man-of-color thing, anyway.

There's a growing population of fundie and fundie-lite Latinos in my area. I once invited our new neighbors' kids to come with my daughter and me to our church's kids' Halloween party, and the mom demurred. Later, when we came by to show the kids the Pippi Longstockings costume I'd made her, I could tell that the parents felt a little bad to have denied their kids a party that wasn't a Satanic orgy.