Pole-dancing kids

[OkToBeTakei]

http://home.bt.com/lifestyle/familyhome ... 3831100313

If we were playing the word association game, what would you say if I uttered ‘pole dancing.’

You’d be forgiven if words like strip club, lap-dancing, provocative, erotic and ill-advised hen night do come to mind, but no more. Nowadays it's pre-teen, fitness, strength, flexibility and toning.

On the back of the Government’s incentive to get kids active, mothers are car-pooling their precious offspring to pole-dancing classes. Several hundred youngsters across the country are expected to attend, and their numbers are steadily growing.

It is even being bandied about as a future Olympic sport, and last month the International Pole Sports Federation announced new regulations (no 'overly-erotic' dance moves in competitions) in the hope that the activity will become more 'respected'.

Just to put it into perspective, we’re talking about children as young as four years old donning a crop top, wrapping their legs around a pole and adopting poses such as ‘beach babe’ – where there’s one leg bent in front, while the other leg points straight out to the side, with the opposite arm raised.

It can’t be that far from the old fireman’s pole on the playground though, can it? While I for one am horrified at the thought of young girls acting in such a sexual way with such a powerful prop, I can’t help but wonder if that is what they’re really doing?

When I started writing this piece I was finger-waggingly disgusted at the thought of children pole dancing – all I have is images of mini Demi Moore’s strutting their stuff a la Striptease - but the more I think about it the more I am undecided.

So. Breaking the stereotype. Just good exercise?

I like the writers bio

Stephanie Lowe is Family & Home Editor for BT.com and is hoping her fist-shaking, highfalutin opinions come back to her soon, as this sitting on the fence malarky is getting uncomfortable.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I've always thought some of the more athletic climbing style pole dancing moves (that I've seen photos of in articles about this new "sporty" pole dancing) remind me of Japanese ladder tricks, in the way that they attach themselves to the pole (gripping it or whatever) and then lean way out to do whatever moves, and flipping over, etc. Surely it requires quite the core trunk muscles - makes my back hurt just thinking about it!

Caveat: I have never actually seen pole dancing live. I have seen ladder tricks live.

[ShadowyOne]

My best friend teaches pole dancing (on the side; in her day job she is a social worker), and I have been to many, many pole dancing showcases. Yes, some amateur shows are very sexy (those might be more often classified as burlesque, though). However, it can absolutely be done without tear-away outfits, etc. I would imagine that if it were to get into the Olympics, for example, that it would be done in gymnastics-like leotards. I don't think that the poses themselves are necessarily any more erotic than many in gymnastics, or the acrobats at the circus who do tricks on the floating rings or ropes. The strength and agility that it takes is amazing, and I think that the folks (men, too!) who do it well are absolutely athletes in their own right.

[YPestis]

I tried pole dancing as a fun activity with some girl friends. It is TOUGH. Athletic? Most definitely. You can get into good shape with that. Just like most other activities, this can be provocative and just very physical. I wouldn't mind sending my kids to something like this, although I'd be worried that they could get hurt (just like any other physical activity).

[Mama Mia]

[link=][/link]Oh fuck no. I'm sure it can be athletic and non erotic, but I don't think we need yet one more sexually provocative activity to send little girls to.

Too much Dance Moms, Too much Toddlers and Tiaras, just make it stop.

They are little kids for such an incredibly short time, why this huge push to make it acceptable for pre-schoolers and elementary school children to act like mini-women??

I am talking as someone who was an early bloomer, super girly, was boy crazy and who always wanted to act "grown up" ( a horrible combination ) , I can not even imagine how much more screwed up I would have been if my parents were sending me to pole dancing classes on top of it :shock:

[Conuly]

I've always thought some of the more athletic climbing style pole dancing moves (that I've seen photos of in articles about this new "sporty" pole dancing) remind me of Japanese ladder tricks, in the way that they attach themselves to the pole (gripping it or whatever) and then lean way out to do whatever moves, and flipping over, etc. Surely it requires quite the core trunk muscles - makes my back hurt just thinking about it!

Caveat: I have never actually seen pole dancing live. I have seen ladder tricks live.

Or Indian Rope Gymnastics, which I only learned about a few years ago?

Honestly, if they ditch the term "Pole Dancing" then they probably will be widely accepted in less time.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Or Indian Rope Gymnastics, which I only learned about a few years ago?

Honestly, if they ditch the term "Pole Dancing" then they probably will be widely accepted in less time.

I had to google that just now, and I will say that is at least five kinds of awesome!! But... yes. Exactly.

...and hey. Some commenter in the YouTube video I was looking at mentioned that there's in fact a pole version "Pole Mallakhamb" been around forever too.

[uber frau]

Or Indian Rope Gymnastics, which I only learned about a few years ago?

Honestly, if they ditch the term "Pole Dancing" then they probably will be widely accepted in less time.

Call it circus training or something.

[Conuly]

Well, mallakhamb is originally, I believe, done on the pole and the rope is the innovation. But I think the rope looks cooler. (I don't pretend this is a great insight, but there it is.)

[walnut]

I wish I had the muscles to be able to pole dance so elegantly. Now I'd look like a fireman that's being called on duty: climbing on the pole, slipping down.

[Evilbad]

I am pretty stunned that pole dancing is taking hold as a mainstream activity for kids. I guess I'm a huge prude. I'm all about embracing your sexuality at an age-appropriate level, but I just don't see how pole dancing is any better than soccer or gymnastics or any other sport that runs at age appropriate levels. Pole dancing was invented to showcase a woman's body, and titillate men. Giving it a different name and taking out overtly sexual moves doesn't really change that.

If you want your kid to learn similar techniques, sign them up for gymnastics.

[skinch]

Well, mallakhamb is originally, I believe, done on the pole and the rope is the innovation. But I think the rope looks cooler. (I don't pretend this is a great insight, but there it is.)

No-one I ever meet has heard of mallkhamb! I think it's amazing; I'd love to see some live. There are some mind-blowing videos on youtube.

[formergothardite]

At my daughter's school playground they have a climbing set with poles. All the kids(both girls and boys) climb them and do all sorts of stuff. It isn't sexual at all. It is just athletic and loads of fun for the kids. If it was a sport like that, I would have no problem with it.

[Conuly]

Pole dancing was invented to showcase a woman's body, and titillate men.

Well, so were Barbie dolls. What's the point? If you're doing an activity in a way that isn't sexual and doesn't titillate, who cares?

[Mama Mia]

Well, so were Barbie dolls. What's the point? If you're doing an activity in a way that isn't sexual and doesn't titillate, who cares?

No. Barbie dolls weren't invented to titillate men. That comparison doesn't even make sense. While a 4 year old taking a pole dancing class won't understand the connotations, it is quite likely her 10 year old sister will. And by "non sexual" are they saying it the same way that the people on toddlers and tiaras or dance moms say what they do is nonsexual? Because that most definitely is overly sexual and exploitive.

[keen23]

I get the athletic benefits of pole dancing. I do. And, I have a kid would would probably love an acrobatic pole class (this is the same kid who wants us to install a climbing wall or parkour course in our living room for her). Put the pole has overtly sexualized connotations. Replace the pole with aerial ropes and rings- like in an aerial yoga studio- and there's no issue.

[Arete]

I get the athletic benefits of pole dancing. I do. And, I have a kid would would probably love an acrobatic pole class (this is the same kid who wants us to install a climbing wall or parkour course in our living room for her). Put the pole has overtly sexualized connotations. Replace the pole with aerial ropes and rings- like in an aerial yoga studio- and there's no issue.

Seconded. I don't care how you rationalize it, pole dancing got popular because it shows women interacting with a phallic symbol. All well and good, but not for children.

[Conuly]

No. Barbie dolls weren't invented to titillate men

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbie#History

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild_Lilli_doll

You know, I don't generally throw statements like that out unless I can back them up. I like being right. Why did you think Barbie has the proportions she has?

While a 4 year old taking a pole dancing class won't understand the connotations, it is quite likely her 10 year old sister will.

But will today's four year old understand it in six years? That depends on if the connotations stay the same, doesn't it? At one point waltzing* was considered too sexual for respectable women, but who now really would object to a ten year old learning ballroom dance?

Seconded. I don't care how you rationalize it, pole dancing got popular because it shows women interacting with a phallic symbol.

You could say the same thing about maypoles!*

* All citations provided upon request.

[Mama Mia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbie#History

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild_Lilli_doll

You know, I don't generally throw statements like that out unless I can back them up. I like being right. Why did you think Barbie has the proportions she has?

But will today's four year old understand it in six years? That depends on if the connotations stay the same, doesn't it? At one point waltzing* was considered too sexual for respectable women, but who now really would object to a ten year old learning ballroom dance?

You could say the same thing about maypoles!*

* All citations provided upon request.

The article about Barbie says it was invented and marketed to children. Yes Barbie has a ridiculous figure, but she wasn't intended as a toy to be bought by grown men. The image of a pole dancer is a woman who is marketed to grown men.

Unless they completely get rid of exotic dancers and strippers in the next 6 years, yeah, today's 4 year old will get the connotation. And the 10 year old taking pole dancing right now certainly will.

Um, I never noticed a kid gyrating on a maypole, if they were, that might be a concern.

Some things just aren't age appropriate. One reason I think it is a bad idea to put young girls in provocative situations/activities/clothing is that some of them will prematurely think they are ready for experiences that they really aren't.

[Arete]

Conuly, I agree that a maypole is a phallic/fertility symbol but it was BOTH sexes who dance around it. No one would be talking about pole dancing classes if pole dancing had started as anything but a way for men to objectify women in bars. There is a reason grown men like it so much, and it is not because it denotes an athletic woman with good flexibility.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

Look, if you have to cite sources and make an argument as to why a (traditionally titillating) sport is appropriate for small children, shouldn't you just enroll them in something else? I mean, I appreciate the athleticism it takes to pole dance (gawd knows I can't do it), but I wouldn't use my 3 year old niece to make a point. I wouldn't use her as a prop to debate my pro-choice stance either. She's a baby. Pole dancing connotes strip clubs. That's life. There are a thousand other ways for a child to exercise artistically and experience being on a team. Gymnastics? Dance? Water ballet?

**Said as a former stripper (who danced rather than used a pole).

[Evilbad]

I don't think barbies are healthy for little girls to play with, either, given our current society's penchant for shaming any body that doesn't meet the "Perfect" standard as set by hollywood and fashion magazines. Which is why I think teaching little girls how to do something that is interpreted as sexy in most of society is also not healthy. Sure it takes a strong, athletic body, but at the end of the day it's still pole dancing, which is done in strip clubs, to entice men to give them money and stare at their body. There's really no getting around it.

[Conuly]

Look, if you have to cite sources and make an argument as to why a (traditionally titillating) sport is appropriate for small children, shouldn't you just enroll them in something else?

I don't need to, actually. I choose to, because otherwise people say ludicrous things without backing them up. (And when Barbie was based on a doll marketed to men, that's largely the same thing, as far as I am concerned.)

I think there are two possibilities here. Either "pole dancing kids" is not actually a thing many people do and these articles are simply trying to sell papers, in which case this is a tempest in a teapot OR it is indeed gaining popularity, in which case by the time these kids are grown it will have largely been stripped of its less savory connotations for them, in which case this is still a tempest in a teapot.

I think that if you want to claim "this is inappropriate because of its origins" then you have to be consistent. I can pull up dozens of things we consider innocuous that were considered risqué or more when they first started. If this catches on as a hobby for young people then by the time we're all dottering old grannies (or dead in our graves for those of us who are grannies already) complaints about it will be seen in the same light as complaints about excessive novel reading or about teenagers having jobs or about girls wearing newfangled "one piece" bathing suits in public.

I also think, honestly, that sometimes other people can make choices I disagree with without it being morally wrong or abusive. And as time goes on and I get older I more and more realize that there is wisdom in letting them make those choices. It's less frustrating and a lot more interesting that way, for one thing.

I have no idea what is going on in pole dancing class for kids. We have enough trouble funding swimming lessons. But if it doesn't actually involve sexy clothing, sexy music, or leering men, and the students are unaware of the origins, I don't see how a reasonable argument can be made that they are being harmed. I simply don't.

[Evilbad]

I don't think the origins are pertinent, because pole dancing in strip clubs is happening today. I don't care where it came from, I care that the connotations about pole dancing today are the same. Strippers pole dance for men. Why encourage kids to that?

[Arete]

I'll second, the objection is not the origin. The objection is that pole dancing with adult participants happens today, right now, and is all about selling sex, not athleticism. I agree this article is one that was designed for controversy and selling papers, by appealing to people's need to show their open mindedness. That's not a problem when the discussion and participation involves adults. This is different because kids become the pawns in adult debates. It's is interesting and may become popular because it has that hint of "transgressing". Without that wink-wink, nudge-nudge hint, no one would care. After all, none of us would be debating if this was a tumbling, dance, or gymnastics class. No one seems to be implying that this offers something different from tumbling, dancing or gymnastics in terms of exercise. All it offers is a new marketing angle. Sex sells. Fine, but sell it to adults for consumption by adults.