Corporal Punishment?!

[dairyfreelife]

Yeah, I suppose I am just clueless, but I thought all schools banned corporal punishment in the US, so I was blindsided by this reality. I grew up in small town West Virginia and corporal punishment was illegal when I began school, even in a religious preschool and this was the early to mid-90s. My dad said his elementary school did have it, but it was gone by middle school and disappeared sometime in the 70s to early 80s entirely in WV schools.

I have been looking up places while my dad has been looking at jobs. Though my brother is a senior and likely won't go to school there, I decide that I'll look at the local schools anyway just to see. I can across a school district in Alabama, outside of Birmingham. Looking around the website, I came across the Department of Student Services and wanted to see what they offered in that particular district. In doing this, I stumbled across a list of forms and on the list is a form that states "Report of Corporal Punishment." Naive me thinks this is for a student to report if a teacher hits them...at first, but then I wondered why they would use the term corporal punishment instead of abuse or harassment report. I click on it and this is what pops up:

jefcoed.com/departments/StudentServices/Documents/Report%20of%20Corporal%20Punishment.pdf

[emiliawasframed]

Still legal in eighteen or so states, IIRC.

[polecat]

More than "corporal punishment" is allowed in some states.

https://www.facebook.com/StopSchoolCorp ... mentatEVSC

[Koala]

I live in Birmingham. I assume you are talking about Jefferson County? Horrific isn't it? You can sign a form saying that they can't do it and there is a Change.org petition to ban it.

[dairyfreelife]

I live in Birmingham. I assume you are talking about Jefferson County? Horrific isn't it? You can sign a form saying that they can't do it and there is a Change.org petition to ban it.

Yes. I was looking up the Hueytown area. I'm glad you can opt out at least, but it still gives me the creeps that people do that in this day and time in schools. Apparently there are a number of states that allow it, including FL, GA, AR, CO, IN, MS, NC, MO, TX and WY. ID, KS, LA, NM, OK, OH, TN also allow it. All are conservative states and the majority are in the south, what a coincidence.

[Jana814]

That's just horrible that they would allow something like that. Where I am that would never be allowed.

[NurseNell]

I went to public school in New York state. I graduated in the early1960's. We had corporal punishment. In grade school the only teacher who ever used it on me was the PE teacher. We had to wear dresses or skirts then but on gym day we had to wear pants under our skirt. I forgot one day. I had to stand in the corner, facing the wall, and every time he walked by me he hit my back with a thin leather strap. I was sobbing, my 3rd grade teacher was disturbed by it, she kept hugging me saying I'd be OK. It never happened again to me.

In high school we had several male teachers who would pick you up by your collar and slam you into the wall or locker. One teacher in particular, who happened also to be a Lutheran minister (the synod that today is ECLA), was vicious. I swear he gave some kids concussions. Today he'd lose his license. We had a female teacher who was probably bipolar. She was definitely mentally ill. She'd pick up chairs and throw them across the room. She always wore beaded necklaces and one day as she was twirling one like a lasso it broke and beads went flying everywhere. We couldn't help but laugh, that totally pushed her over the edge. I was a good student and never in trouble so I didn't get hit but I was plenty fearful.

We had Franciscan sisters for religion, this was when school prayer was allowed. The sisters came in weekly to teach us. They were kind and never resorted to corporal punishment. Nor did our parish priest. Some of the ministers did practice corporal punishment of kids in religion class.

I totally do not believe in corporal punishment, at home or in school.

[Arete]

In the 70s corporal punishment was already outlawed in NJ public schools.

My parents went to school in the 40s in Greece and had to cut their own sticks off olive or wild orange trees and give it to the teachers to "discipline" them. Good times. Corporal punishment was banned completely in Greek schools after the fall of the dictatorship in the early 70s.

[Iokaste]

That's absurd!

Here corporal punishment was made illegal in the schools in the capital 1951 and nationwide in 1967 and in 1997 it became completely illegal to hit children, any child, any time, including your own and we really don't have children running wild in the streets (or whatever it is you sometimes see argued when talking about a parents' "right" to hit a child).

[lawlifelgbt]

Isn't there a real potential for bias/misuse of that punishment? I'm likely to end up living in OH with partner and sending kids to school there. And if it's not illegal by then, wouldn't it be possible for a homophobic teacher to pounce on my kid(s) and punish/otherwise "discipline" them for any wrongdoing just because they don't like his/her parents? Similarly, is there a racial bias? Are black and Hispanic kids singled out more? What about kids with ADHD or a learning disability? Is there potential for them to be punished for something they can't "help" on their own?

[Black Aliss]

Isn't there a real potential for bias/misuse of that punishment? I'm likely to end up living in OH with partner and sending kids to school there. And if it's not illegal by then, wouldn't it be possible for a homophobic teacher to pounce on my kid(s) and punish/otherwise "discipline" them for any wrongdoing just because they don't like his/her parents? Similarly, is there a racial bias? Are black and Hispanic kids singled out more? What about kids with ADHD or a learning disability? Is there potential for them to be punished for something they can't "help" on their own?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.

[lemonhead]

In Texas, many if not all of the major, urban school districts do not allow corporal punishment. Our small-ish district, just outside of a major urban area, does not allow it. It seems to be more common in smaller, rural areas. And regardless of the local policy, parents are now able to "opt-out" and refuse to allow corporal punishment for their children. I think that's a fairly new provision in the state law, though.

[lawlifelgbt]

Well, then, good. Opt-out it is! I think partner might hit the teacher just as hard if one ever hit our kid. Corporal punishment has also been shown to slow learning and increase aggression in many cases. Just not effective! An effective way to teach and discipline, I think, is to reason with the kid. You can't do that with really little kids, granted, but if you start simply and early on, you could potentially make them:

a. Understand why what they did is wrong.

b. Help figure out how to set it right.

c. Increase their logical reasoning, empathy, and critical thinking skills from an early age.

[scc12]

I'm glad it isn't legal here anymore.I was never spanked,but a lot of kids in my 1st and 2nd grade class were (Kindergarten wasn't mandatory then) in the early 70's,and it was really stressful for me to see and hear my friends and classmates getting beaten by the teacher.Sometimes it was in front of the whole class,sometimes in the adjoining bathroom where we could all hear the child getting beaten (and then crying/screaming) with the teacher screaming at them as well,but it was always very stressful for me,and I recall going home with a lot of anxiety on those days.

Only occasionally would a child get sent to the principal to be spanked.'Licks' as they called them.I recall one teacher always telling the kids that the principal would pull their pants down to spank them,so as not to ruin their nice,new clothes their parents had bought for them. Uh,that is just sad.

[bookiewookie]

One of my cousins teaches in a state that allows corporal punishment in schools, but she herself was raised in a liberal northeastern state. Only the principal of the school can dole out corporal punishments, so she does everything in her power to avoid sending her students to the principal's office. She also knows that if the kids are punished at school, they're also usually punished (physically) by their parents too.

[Knight of Ni]

My first grade teacher used to threaten us with corporal punishment if we were "really bad". She would say that we need to make sure we are good because one day she might just decide to send us to the principal's office where we would be paddled. At that time corporal punishment hadn't been used in my school district since my parents were in school but this teacher definitely didn't mind threatening us with it. Sadly, that's one of the only things I remember about first grade.

[Talitha Cumi]

I'm glad it isn't legal here anymore.I was never spanked,but a lot of kids in my 1st and 2nd grade class were (Kindergarten wasn't mandatory then) in the early 70's,and it was really stressful for me to see and hear my friends and classmates getting beaten by the teacher.Sometimes it was in front of the whole class,sometimes in the adjoining bathroom where we could all hear the child getting beaten (and then crying/screaming) with the teacher screaming at them as well,but it was always very stressful for me,and I recall going home with a lot of anxiety on those days.

Only occasionally would a child get sent to the principal to be spanked.'Licks' as they called them.I recall one teacher always telling the kids that the principal would pull their pants down to spank them,so as not to ruin their nice,new clothes their parents had bought for them. Uh,that is just sad.

I never got hit at school, but during a week-long camping trip through school (6th grade), this one kid got hit with a belt. Over and over. He was supposed to get four, but more kept being added because he'd instinctively turn away. I was sobbing. Other kids were laughing nervously. The other chaperone kept fiercely telling us to be quiet-- I think she was afraid we'd all get punished.

I see that guy on Facebook now, and it's all I can think of. It still makes me sick.

[Jana814]

One of my cousins teaches in a statye that allows corporal punishment in schools, but she herself was raised in a liberal northeastern state. Only the principal of the school can dole out corporal punishments, so she does everything in her power to avoid sending her students to the principal's office. She also knows that if the kids are punished at school, they're also usually punished (physically) by their parents too.

That's insane that they do that. Where doe she teach?

[Hane]

Whenever I hear people my age (60) and up maundering on about the "good old days" when kids were hit in school "and WE learned to BEHAVE!!!", I want to throw up. Corporal punishment in schools was abolished because it has been proven to lead to really egregious cases of abuse. A teacher with a few screws loose can do a LOT more harm when given license to hit children.

The last time someone defended corporal punishment in schools as something that "kept him in line," I wish I'd had the presence of mind to have said, "So, it took getting hit to keep you from acting up in school? You must have been a real asshole."

[frumper-rump]

I'm in Jefferson County and have signed the form stating the school is not allowed to hit my child. Luckily, he is well behaved for the most part and doesn't get in that kind of trouble.

I went to private school as a child and the headmaster had the "big green spanking machine". The pastor of my church had the "board of education". Spanking is still very ingrained in the culture down here. It seems those of us who want to avoid hitting our kids are in the minority. People get really upset when I call it "hitting" instead of "spanking"....but it is what it is. No one has a good response when I ask why it's considered assault to hit another adult with a belt but it's not when a child is hit.

[bookiewookie]

That's insane that they do that. Where doe she teach?

Very rural Louisiana. And she taught kindergarten, so the schools are punishing little kids like that :-( When she taught in a big city in Louisiana, the school didn't use corporal punishment, so it seems like it depends on the school and the area.

[Nothing2CHere]

Isn't there a real potential for bias/misuse of that punishment? I'm likely to end up living in OH with partner and sending kids to school there. And if it's not illegal by then, wouldn't it be possible for a homophobic teacher to pounce on my kid(s) and punish/otherwise "discipline" them for any wrongdoing just because they don't like his/her parents? Similarly, is there a racial bias? Are black and Hispanic kids singled out more? What about kids with ADHD or a learning disability? Is there potential for them to be punished for something they can't "help" on their own?

To reassure you, I grew up going to Ohio public schools (80's & 90's) and don't recall ever hearing about corporal punishment being used in my school district or the surrounding school districts.

I just did a quick search for "corporal punishment" and my old school district, and they have a section in their bylaws concerning it with this statement, "Corporal punishment shall not be permitted." So although the state may allow it, individual school districts may not. If you do end up moving here, you can research the various school districts in the area you're considering to see what their policies are.

ETA: Although Ohio can be conservative, Cuyahoga County is almost always a nice, blue oasis. Just sayin' ;)

[Freed]

Very rural Louisiana. And she taught kindergarten, so the schools are punishing little kids like that :-( When she taught in a big city in Louisiana, the school didn't use corporal punishment, so it seems like it depends on the school and the area.

I'm from not-very-rural Louisiana, and my best friend growing up was spanked at school because another girl accused her of cheating. They couldn't prove it, but spanked her anyway because they had to "avoid the appearance of evil."

[bookiewookie]

Yikes! That's awful! They should have given her the benefit of the doubt - if she said she didn't do it, then they should have believed her.

[JesusFightClub]

I have a sort of blank feeling in my head when I think of this. I went to a school for two years where it was a private religious school and because it was a private school, at that time (early 90s) it was legal to hit children if their parents had said you could.

When I began there one of the first kids I met was holding some cakes and crying and I didn't know why. Turns out the headteacher's wife used to backhand kids across the face. (The kid was holding cakes because she was carrying cakes into the visitors' room and hadn't been as quick as she ought to have been.)

He was a really nice bloke though, and we all liked him though we were scared of his wife. He had loads of fun with us, it was just stay out of the reach of Mrs (..)

Anyway he'd been doing something dodgy financially and they let him go, and we got a new headteacher. He was Quiverful before Quiverful existed and his wife was constantly pregnant. Some of my pals' parents had the contract with him that he could use corporal punishment, but he never did. My parents were completely against it at that time.

The school no longer exists. But looking back on it, that was a bit weird.