'Persecuted' British Christians need to 'grow up'

[lilah]

Says former archbischop of Canterbury. He's awesome.

Lord Williams said religious believers should be wary of complaining about their treatment in the Western world, with those claiming they are "persecuted" making him "very uneasy".

He added the level of "not being taken very seriously" or "being made fun of" in Britain and the United States is not comparable to the "murderous hostility" faced by others in different parts of the world.

Speaking at the Edinburgh International Book Festival, he urged those who complain of ill-treatment for their beliefs in Britain to "grow up".

Lord Williams, who stood down from his role as Archbishop of Canterbury at the end of 2012 and is now Master of Magdalene College, Cambridge, said his perspective had been drawn from meeting believers from all faiths suffering around the world.

"When you have any contact with real persecuted minorities you learn to use the word persecuted very chastely," he said.

"Persecution is not being made to feel mildly uncomfortable.

"I am always very uneasy when people sometimes in this country or the United States talk about persecution of Christians or rather believers.

"I think we are made to feel uncomfortable at times. We're made to feel as if we're idiots - perish the thought!

"But that kind of level of not being taken very seriously or being made fun of; I mean for goodness sake, grow up.

"You have to earn respect if you want to be taken seriously in society.

"But don't confuse it with the systematic brutality and often murderous hostility which means that every morning you get up wondering if you and your children are going to make it through the day.

"That is different, it's real. It's not quite what we're facing in Western society."

Baroness Neuberger, Britain's second woman rabbi who was chairing the discussion, added religious people may just "need to make their case better".

Dr Williams added: "I think there's also a general cultural habit of making light of religion which is reinforced by a lot of the press and by our entertainment. I don't lose a lot of sleep over it."

Earlier this year, Lord Carey - also a former Archbishop of Canterbury, argued the David Cameron was feeding fears of persecution of Christians in Britain.

"Their fears may be exaggerated because few in the UK are actually persecuted, but the Prime Minister has done more than any other recent political leader to feed these anxieties," he said.

''He seems to have forgotten in spite of his oft-repeated support for the right of Christians to wear the cross, that lawyers acting for the coalition argued only months ago in the Strasbourg court that those sacked for wearing a cross against their employer's wishes should simply get another job.''

He added "many Christians" doubted the sincerity of Mr Cameron's pledge to support their rights, with a recent poll showing two-thirds believed they are now part of a "persecuted minority".

Slow claps for this guy. If only more Christians would listen to him!

[Pam]

Good on him!! :clap:

[Arete]

About time someone with cache went public and called this out. Though honestly, the only Christians I have ever heard talking about their "persecution in the US" are the rightwing fundamentalist nutjobs. Trust me, I'm a Christian, and if we are persecuted here, that's news to me. :roll:

[crazyforkate]

I have a lot of quarrels with Williams, but YAY for this. Christians in the UK are absolutely not persecuted; there's a freaking official church (though I suppose this lot would consider us Anglicans akin to heathens).

[Ariel]

So is there legal separation of church and state?

[ILoveJellybeans]

No, there isnt seperation of church and state here. Other than things like how there are prayers in schools, its not too much of a big deal, as we dont have many fundies and probably would consider the average American Christian to be pretty much how you guys see fundie lite people-most people here who are Christian believe in God, but only go to church at Christmas and Easter, or for weddings and stuff. It is considered weird to talk about God a lot, and if a politician started talking about God the way the Republicans do, I dont think they would be voted for. I think the only reason it works that we dont have seperation of church and state and it hasnt turned into a theocracy full of fundies, is because most people dont care about religion.

[Pam]

Some of the "persecuted Christians" in the United States conflate disagreement with/snarking at their "preachings" as curtailing their first amendment right to freedom of speech.

[docmom]

To US fundies "persecution" is not being allowed to make everyone else in the country conform to their ideas. I do find it interesting that Britain, which does have an official state church and no separation of church and state, is actually much less religious, much less fundamentalist and overall more progressive than the US. Weird how that worked out!

[pimpom]

"It is considered weird to talk about God a lot." THIS,

And manifold as its faults may be, this is why I love Britain.

[uber frau]

To US fundies "persecution" is not being allowed to make everyone else in the country conform to their ideas. I do find it interesting that Britain, which does have an official state church and no separation of church and state, is actually much less religious, much less fundamentalist and overall more progressive than the US. Weird how that worked out!

There's a theory that a big reason for the level of religiousity in the US is of the official separation of church and state. The argument goes that if a religion needs to sell itself to be taken seriously it is a hell of a lot more effective at finding and retaining converts and becoming a real part of the social fabric than if a church is just another part of the state institution.

There's a book called "God is back" (I can't remember the authors but it's easy enough to Google) if you're interested.