Daycare kids=built in maids?

[Koala]

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/08/what-is-your-view-on-chores.html#idc-container

Jane from Canada recently emailed me a question. I would love to get your opinions on this topic. We didn't give our children too many chores. It is the one thing I regret in raising them but I was fairly sick the whole time I was raising them so I was just trying to get through each day. Here is Jane's email ~

I am a SAHM that babysits in the home quite a bit, and I am actually appalled at the fact that I don't know ANY children {except my own} that are expected to do chores. Well, maybe they clean up their own toys, but do not contribute to the household chores in any way.

I make the children I babysit help me around the house, and they are very capable of unloading my dishwasher, wiping off the tables, vacuuming, sweeping, etc. once I have taken the time to teach them how. They have no clue how before I teach them. I tell their parents that they are wonderful helpers, but the parents still do not make them do one thing at home. It's amazing how little kids are waited on by adults these days.

I'm sorry, but if I am paying you to babysit, I am absolutely NOT doing it so my child can come clean your house. Really. I have always raised both of my children to clean up after themselves. They put away dishes when they are done eating and clean up any other messes that they make, but I wouldn't expect them to go to someone's house and start doing their laundry or running the vacuum.

At home is a completely different story. I think chores are good for kids. Mine can do laundry, dishes, and all sorts of things like that. The difference is that I never lose sight of the fact that I am the one responsible at the end of the day. And I've certainly never expected their friends to clean my home. :evil-eye:

Of course if you thought she was nuts, Lori saved the worst for last:

I was a Kindergarten teacher, and consistency worked like a charm in my classroom. However, in my household, my child still needs frequent reminding and numerous requests. Taking away toys has little effect. We do spank, but are finding we do it less frequently as she gets older. When she needs to be asked repeatedly to set the table, for example, I am very tempted to have her skip a meal to help her understand that when we don't work, we don't eat. Is that too severe?

And finally, the readers:

My hubby says that the kids need to learn to become adults basically so he tells them that they need to do almost everything in and around the house. My littlest is only 2 so he can't do very much but my girls are 5 and 7 and they are working from the time they get up to lunch. We might let them play in the afternoon if they finish all of their work but they have to keep working if not all of the chores are done. We don't do any chores on Sundays because that is the Sabbath and we are very strict about keeping the Sabbath. I think it is doing a lot of good for the kids and teaching them hard work.

:pull-hair: Reminds me why I hate most people.

[Burpies]

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/08/what-is-your-view-on-chores.html#idc-container

I'm sorry, but if I am paying you to babysit, I am absolutely NOT doing it so my child can come clean your house. Really. I have always raised both of my children to clean up after themselves. They put away dishes when they are done eating and clean up any other messes that they make, but I wouldn't expect them to go to someone's house and start doing their laundry or running the vacuum.

At home is a completely different story. I think chores are good for kids. Mine can do laundry, dishes, and all sorts of things like that. The difference is that I never lose sight of the fact that I am the one responsible at the end of the day. And I've certainly never expected their friends to clean my home. :evil-eye:

Of course if you thought she was nuts, Lori saved the worst for last:

And finally, the readers:

:pull-hair: Reminds me why I hate most people.

Uh, I'm all for children doing chores and helping around the house, but I don't think it's fair for a 5 year old and a 7 year old to clean the house for hours every day! My 7 year old and 17 year old have chores to do, but they mostly take the 7 year old about ten minutes and the 17 year old twenty minutes. I will add extra sometimes, like the other day I was cleaning the bathroom and I asked the 7 year old to wipe the base boards for me, but that only took three minutes-tops! That's really shitty to make little kids like that your servants. I bet they don't even get allowance!

[gezykah]

I use to do case management type work for a group home. Most of those I worked with were children and young adults. Some of my happiest memories from that job were when they would sing, dance, or find other ways to express happiness when I was teaching them to cook, load the dishwasher, or other basic chores and life skills. My biggest concern when I read stuff like this is that they're sucking the joy out of life. I'm not a parent. Growing up there were certainly some chores I liked less than others but at least make an effort was made to make it enjoyable. It's one thing to teach them stuff they need to know eventually, it's another to treat little kids like adults stuck in a bad job.

[polecat]

My kids have a chore chart that they are expected to complete daily. They also get an allowance. Their chores will generally include one or two tasks: vacuum, dust, sweep, wipe down the bathroom sinks, scoop the litter box, feed/water the pets, empty the dish drain, wipe the table, etc. I work full time from home, and their dad works full time and goes to school. We each have to do our part with the housework -- kids included -- to keep the household functioning. I know other kids my boys' ages who have no chores. If that works for their family, fine. It doesn't and wouldn't work for mine.

I'd absolutely expect my kids to clean up after themselves at another person's house. Putting their dishes in the sink/dishwasher, picking up their toys, putting their things away seems like a basic responsibility. Cleaning that person's house for them is NOT. Particularly if I'm paying that person to watch my child -- my child should not become free labor for them to exploit and certainly not while taking money from me.

As for making your kids work for hours cleaning the house -- seriously, how could any house get that messy? My kids spend maybe ten or twenty minutes tops -- depending on the amount of dawdling that is done -- on their chores before heading off to more pleasurable tasks. Then again, my house is hardly spotless. Maybe these people really do have spotless homes ... on the backs of their free child laborers. And what about school/homework? When on earth is the kid supposed to play?!

[lilwriter85]

Jane from Canada sounds like a bitch. I agree with Koala, if I was paying a babysitter that doesn't mean children are going to be maids for the babysitters. A friend of mine has a babysitting business at home. She only babysits 3 or 4 kids daily and they are in the preschool range. My friend encourages them to pick up toys and she shows them how wipe off food or drink spills. She doesn't make them do any other household chores.

[August]

I expect my children to contribute wherever they are. If they have a playdate they'd damn well butter take their glass to the sink, as I do if I have a coffee with a friend. That goes quadruple if they spend all day at childcare, they'd better be teaching them to look after themselves and their environment. I had words with a preschool teacher who didn't get the kids to tidy up.

[Sydney Fox]

And finally, the readers:

My hubby says that the kids need to learn to become adults basically so he tells them that they need to do almost everything in and around the house. My littlest is only 2 so he can't do very much but my girls are 5 and 7 and they are working from the time they get up to lunch. We might let them play in the afternoon if they finish all of their work but they have to keep working if not all of the chores are done. We don't do any chores on Sundays because that is the Sabbath and we are very strict about keeping the Sabbath. I think it is doing a lot of good for the kids and teaching them hard work.

What about school for these kids? At 5 and 7 they should be learning something, not just slaving away.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think that kids should do chores, but not all day-maybe just one thing a day, as well as cleaning up any toys they get out, putting dirty clothes into the laundry basket, putting their plate in the dishwasher after using it, and cleaning up messes they created.

Asking a child to do chores all day is rediculous, they need to have time to play and enjoy themselves. Especially a 5 and 7 year old, they "might" be allowed to play in the afternoon if their chores are done. Theyre pretty much expected to clean all day. When do they do school work? When do they play?

What exactly are they doing, its not like that many chores are done every day. Especially with only three kids-sure, if you have 19, just doing laundry would be a day long job..but surely there cant be that much to do. All you really need to do every day is laundry (not that much, depending on the size of your family, but its easy, just shove it in, wait for it to finish then sort it and carry it upstairs to put away-which can even be done by each family member other than the babies), do a quick sweep of the dining room floor and wipe the table and the surface you were preparing food on, wash up or take the clean dishes out of the dishwasher and put it away and clean up any messes that happen (and any extra pet related chores like picking up dog poo, cat litter and feeding pets). The rest of the stuff, like cleaning carpets, scrubbing toilets and dusting can be done every few days.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

My kids have a chore chart that they are expected to complete daily. They also get an allowance. Their chores will generally include one or two tasks: vacuum, dust, sweep, wipe down the bathroom sinks, scoop the litter box, feed/water the pets, empty the dish drain, wipe the table, etc. I work full time from home, and their dad works full time and goes to school. We each have to do our part with the housework -- kids included -- to keep the household functioning. I know other kids my boys' ages who have no chores. If that works for their family, fine. It doesn't and wouldn't work for mine.

I'd absolutely expect my kids to clean up after themselves at another person's house. Putting their dishes in the sink/dishwasher, picking up their toys, putting their things away seems like a basic responsibility. Cleaning that person's house for them is NOT. Particularly if I'm paying that person to watch my child -- my child should not become free labor for them to exploit and certainly not while taking money from me.

As for making your kids work for hours cleaning the house -- seriously, how could any house get that messy? My kids spend maybe ten or twenty minutes tops -- depending on the amount of dawdling that is done -- on their chores before heading off to more pleasurable tasks. Then again, my house is hardly spotless. Maybe these people really do have spotless homes ... on the backs of their free child laborers. And what about school/homework? When on earth is the kid supposed to play?!

You forgot to add that in addition to taking your money and using your kids for labor, she would also be judging you for being a bad mom with lazy kids and taking it upon herself to "fix" your parenting.

[frumper-rump]

If the daycare lad\y needs to watch out. I worked for a church daycare and we had to be extremely careful about what we allowed the kids to help with due to child labor laws.

[javafriend]

She should also be very careful about what kind of cleaning solutions she is letting children access. She could end up with an injured "mini maid" and a lawsuit. If this were my daycare provider, I would expect her to be the one working - providing fun and educational activities, healthy food, free play and rest time - not my child.

[Rescinded and Mended]

If the daycare lad\y needs to watch out. I worked for a church daycare and we had to be extremely careful about what we allowed the kids to help with due to child labor laws.

Pretty much this. There are reasons why the daycare system went through reforms in the 90s. I clearly remember attending at least two different daycares as a child, and because I was one of the oldest, I was put in charge of the smaller children, made to do different chores, etc.

In one instance, I was 10, and my latest childcare center had lost two employees unexpectedly. It was summertime, so extra children were at the center full time. Another 10-year-old and I were put in charge of cleaning the play room, doing dishes, watching the smaller kids, and doing other odd tasks. We were both told we would be "paid" at the end. We did all this, 8 hours a day for about two weeks.

Our payment? A whole bunch of leftover stickers that were in one of the classrooms. I didn't get an allowance at home, so I was expecting cash. I clearly remember that with each task they demanded of me, I built the amount of money up a little further in my head. And I never got anything for it. It never occured to me that it was an abuse of the system until years later.

And no, I never told my mother. She was a single parent who had issues with anger and alcohol, so it was better for all involved if I kept quiet at certain times. We did move a short time later, so there was that.

[dairyfreelife]

At daycare centers I've been to or worked in, children only do basic cleanup. They clean up after themselves and help wipe down the tables after a meal at most. Toddlers are willing to do this and like to mimic adults, so we'd let them help in little ways. It was more about learning responsibility. However, when we went to someone's home, we were expected to help pick up whatever mess we'd made before coming home. Sometimes we'd help clean other things just because, but no one made us. That was about it. We really didn't have chores except to keep our room clean, clean off plates and put dishes and utensils in the dishwasher, bring all toys and items we took out back inside, make our beds everyday, and pick up after ourselves. We did other chores as we wished and now none of us seem to have much issue with chores. Even my brother, still at home, is good about helping out without being asked.

I recently saw a fundie/fundie-lite blog post where a woman was complaining about how her children have chores, but some of their neighbors' parents would make her children clean their child's room or other things. Basically, I agree with her that it's an abuse of power and not okay. It's not another child's job to clean your mess or your child's mess. Only their messes. If they wish to help, that's one thing. To manipulate them into it is wrong. I wish I could remember who wrote that post now.

[Pearl]

This woman disgusts me. I can't believe that she'll deny her 5 & 7 year old playtime because she is too lazy to clean her own home. Ditto to those that say that she shouldn't be forcing the children she babysits to help with her chores.

My kids do chores. They are responsible for their bedroom, their bathroom, cleaning and putting away their clothes. I also give them a list of daily chores that they can choose between the two of them which one they want to do (a few of the chores both girls hate so I alternate them). I pay my children an allowance for their work and encourage them to do the things they don't like with as good a spirit as possible. I tell them I'm training them how to work in the real world (where every task isn't something one wants to do). Anyhow, all the chores maybe takes 2 hours the entire week. Probably less. Just thinking about 5 & 7 year olds slaving away when they don't have to makes me sad.

[docmom]

As for making your kids work for hours cleaning the house -- seriously, how could any house get that messy?

You'd be amazed at what some fundies think needs to be done daily in a house. Those little girls are probably washing walls, cleaning cabinets, doing laundry, beating carpets and a whole bunch of other stuff that may or may not actually need to be done daily. These things would probably take a 5 and 7 year old quite a long time. Remember, they're raising homemakers. School doesn't matter for girls (right PP?).

[GolightlyGrrl]

I'm a-okay with kids doing chores, but they have to be age appropriate. I'm not an expert on child development but I don't think a five and seven-year-old should take on a bulk of the housecleaning. Putting away toys, helping to fold laundry, feeding the pets? Sure.

But to a lot of fundies offspring are just indentured servants. Am I right Michelle Duggar?

[Emme]

We weren't allowed to let the kids help us vacuum when I worked in childcare, and the kids were always mad because they thought it looked fun! The comment from that one reader is the WORST. WTF!!!! They work till noon and then MAYBE get to play? Poor kids. Play is vital to a child's development.

[spinsterwv]

And finally, the readers:

What about school for these kids? At 5 and 7 they should be learning something, not just slaving away.

Holy cats. This is the response from the same lady!

My husband decided it was best for them to do as much as possible. They more or less do everything that doesn't require a lot of strength. There are some days they have so much stuff to do and I don't that I'll watch tv or read while they finish! We believe they're learning the value of independence and hard work.

[dairyfreelife]

Holy cats. This is the response from the same lady!

:wtf: That's awful. Get off your lazy ass and clean your own damn house, lady. It's not your children's responsibility! I learned all about independence and hard work without doing any of that.

OT, but are you from or currently residing in WV, spinsterwv?

[Jana814]

This woman is nuts!! How can u make a 5 and 7 year do so much house work. While clearly she does not do much. We have a cleaning service that comes once a week to clean our house. But we are not messy people.

[polecat]

Holy cats. This is the response from the same lady!

That is NOT what they're learning.

But it's lovely that she just gets to kick back in front of the TV while her little kids do all the hard work around the house.

[HoneyBunny]

I have some strong feelings on the topic of work in the house/yard for kids, because I was expected to do a LOT, and, honestly, I am so glad I do have a good work ethic. Not Maxwells-good, mind you, but pretty good. It's certainly served me well in life, and for that I am grateful.

First, the babysitter having the kids she sits do her housework...that's just all kinds of wrong. Like it or not, she should be following the lead of the parents on this. If they don't have their kids doing things around their own homes, then the babysitter shouldn't be assuming it's the right thing to do to have them clean her home. They might be her values, but they're obviously not the parents' values.

But, as for kids doing some serious stuff around the house, I think that, if the chores are age-appropriate, it's fine. And we were never paid for doing things. Mom used to say it was a requirement of being part of a family. She and Dad got paid to work, not to do things around the house, and so neither did we. We did get an allowance when we were young, but were expected to be earning our own spending money by the time we got to high school.

I live in a neighborhood where the teens all drive $50K SUVs, have the latest iPhones and iPads, can go to any college they can get to admitted to without working one bit, and I see what it does to kids. It's not good. They resent having to do anything, except hang out with friends and plug in. The sense of entitlement is nauseating. We don't have kids, and I'm so glad we don't. My husband and I were raised in the same way, and I'm afraid our kids would be oddballs, because we'd be raising them the same way we were.

I don't agree with the huge majority of what Lori and the Maxwells and the Pearls espouse, but about this I think I could meet them halfway.

[ILoveJellybeans]

My husband decided it was best for them to do as much as possible. They more or less do everything that doesn't require a lot of strength. There are some days they have so much stuff to do and I don't that I'll watch tv or read while they finish! We believe they're learning the value of independence and hard work.

The lazy asshole.

She should get off her ass and do it herself, and let her kids have a childhood.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I have some strong feelings on the topic of work in the house/yard for kids, because I was expected to do a LOT, and, honestly, I am so glad I do have a good work ethic. Not Maxwells-good, mind you, but pretty good. It's certainly served me well in life, and for that I am grateful.

First, the babysitter having the kids she sits do her housework...that's just all kinds of wrong. Like it or not, she should be following the lead of the parents on this. If they don't have their kids doing things around their own homes, then the babysitter shouldn't be assuming it's the right thing to do to have them clean her home. They might be her values, but they're obviously not the parents' values.

But, as for kids doing some serious stuff around the house, I think that, if the chores are age-appropriate, it's fine. And we were never paid for doing things. Mom used to say it was a requirement of being part of a family. She and Dad got paid to work, not to do things around the house, and so neither did we. We did get an allowance when we were young, but were expected to be earning our own spending money by the time we got to high school.

I live in a neighborhood where the teens all drive $50K SUVs, have the latest iPhones and iPads, can go to any college they can get to admitted to without working one bit, and I see what it does to kids. It's not good. They resent having to do anything, except hang out with friends and plug in. The sense of entitlement is nauseating. We don't have kids, and I'm so glad we don't. My husband and I were raised in the same way, and I'm afraid our kids would be oddballs, because we'd be raising them the same way we were.

I don't agree with the huge majority of what Lori and the Maxwells and the Pearls espouse, but about this I think I could meet them halfway.

I kind of have this concern about my hypothetical future child. I wasn't raised to do a lot of chores because my mom was a total control freak and god forbid you touched her cleaning supplies, but I was expected to work extremely hard academically, to have a job, to spend very little time on recreation, and to ask my parents for as little as possible. And forget about an allowance - one time, when I was in the 7th grade, I asked my mom if I could have $10 for the winter break to do stuff with my friends, and she was so offended by the idea that she and my dad spent an hour yelling at me about what an entitled and ungrateful brat I was. :pull-hair: So on the one hand, I have a great work ethic and that's something I want to instill in my kid - something that seems very difficult in this era of all-consuming technology, and I'm afraid I'll go overboard like my parents. On the other hand, I have so many issues from this upbringing (which my parents will now be the first to admit was kind of fucked up) that I may just veer the other way and have the most spoiled kid on the block. :?

[Soulhuntress]

Daycare is state licensed and something tells me this is a violation of said licensing.