She hates feminism but still benefits from feminism

[Joykins]

Actually, she makes sense, in her own perverted way: Feminism isn't based on Godly principles; ergo, I don't accept the concept of feminism, even if I engage in activities that were made possible by the efforts of those women who called themselves feminists.

In other words, Fuck you, I got mine, but I'll work against you getting yours...

I hate people like that.

[FloraDoraDolly]

"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." - Rev. Pat Robertson

Hmm, I must live in the wrong place. I've never seen even one commie lesbian flying around on a broom with a dead baby strapped to her back.

[O Latin]

"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." - Rev. Pat Robertson

Is this an actual quote? I can understand disagreeing with feminism but this is just... :angry-banghead:

[Kaylee]

Is this an actual quote? I can understand disagreeing with feminism but this is just... :angry-banghead:

Yes, or very close to it. There was something in there about missing church, too.

I know this because, when he found out I had left fundie-U & was minoring in Women's Studies, a friend bought me a button that said "Sorry I missed church, I was practicing witchcraft & becoming a lesbian" that was based on the quote.

[Guest Anonymous]

Hmm, I must live in the wrong place. I've never seen even one commie lesbian flying around on a broom with a dead baby strapped to her back.

Well of course not, we *eat* the babies.

[Cassandra]

Well of course not, we *eat* the babies.

[Patsy]

A lot of what she says is at least internally consistent, if missing the point.

And I'm not sure that she is that hypocritical to be using feminist benefits, the way she writes about it. I'm not a fan of Christianity, but the three hospital surgeries I've had have been in private hospitals that were generally better than public ones - private, as in Christian. I don't know how much of their quality was from Christian sources (consider that Christian hospital whose church pulled away after an abortion was performed - turned out literally the only thing the church was providing was pastors in the chapel, so how they had the audacity to have a Christian name and to act like removing themself was some great threat, I do not know). I also don't know how much Christianity actually has added to the good parts of modern society, because it's not like we can do trials to find out if it would have been as good without it. But I do think that whatever the extent of the benefits are, I have benefited from Christianity, and things it has helped to put in place. Does that make it hypocritical for me to say that I'm actually pretty much anti-Christianity for most of the ways it appears today? I don't think it does.

[YPestis]

A lot of what she says is at least internally consistent, if missing the point.

And I'm not sure that she is that hypocritical to be using feminist benefits, the way she writes about it. I'm not a fan of Christianity, but the three hospital surgeries I've had have been in private hospitals that were generally better than public ones - private, as in Christian.

The quality of the hospitals has little to do with it's church affiliation. I've rotated at multiple hospitals, including religiously affiliated and public hospitals. The quality of the county hospital is not going to be as nice as the private hospitals due to a number of things, top of the list being shortage of funds.

For example, in the city I'm at, we have only one public hospital, so it is always overflowing with indigent patients. The hospital rarely collects its fee and is dependent on taxes and other hospitals to keep it afloat.

Private hospitals may have more resources. They may be able to attract a higher paying clientele (although not always). Most importantly, public hospitals (at least the one here) pays their physicians on salaries. There's no incentive to be more efficient because they get paid the same regardless. I'm not saying the docs there are lazy....but compared to a private hospital where people have more financial incentive to see consults immediately, to admit as many patients as they can, the quality of service is going to be better. It means people are willing to put in 12 hours instead of 9 because they get paid more. In turn, patients are seen faster, procedures are done immediately etc.

Added to the fact some (for profit) private hospitals can transfer their less desirable patients to public hospitals, and you do get a "better run" hospital.

I have yet to see, or hear anyone else say that religious affiliation makes for a better hospital. But I have seen hospitals run better because it has more funds to hire more clinicians, encourage quicker turnaround (through the per patient incentive) and the ability to attract better people.

[CanadianHippie]

Well of course not, we *eat* the babies.

Tastes like chicken...

[Vex]

Personally, I don't like to identify myself with labels, because as soon as you say, "I'm a X," somebody is going to make assumptions about you based on stereotypes of whatever you've just declared yourself to be. I think what a lot of those "I'm not a feminist" people really mean is "I'm not any of the stereotypes that are often associated with feminism."

I feel the same. Because I've long considered myself a gay woman (I don't feel comfortable using 'lesbian', even if it's technically true, because I don't want to be associated with any stereotypes), it's especially hard to admit to being a feminist because then you get people assuming you despise men and are butch as hell. That's not the case at ALL with me. So, for a long time I rejected the idea of being a feminist.

After reading an essay by a fellow FJ-ite, I found myself changing my mind. Some people might assume I'm some kind of butch radical feminist, but I don't feel right saying I'm not a feminist just to avoid those stereotypes, because women fought and died so I could live my life the way I do. I don't want to feel like I'm rejecting their sacrifice, which was how I felt before.

[dormouse]

From what I see around me, she's not alone with that point of view. There is a return to conservative values among younger women, even those with jobs and educations, and even if they are not religious or at least not fundie. On Facebook, I was given a hard time because I decided to hire a cleaning lady to make my life easier since I'm going to have 2 jobs and work 6 days a week for the next 6 months, and once because I had a power outage at home while I was at work so my slow-cooker went off and I had to throw out 10$ of beef cubes that had been sitting there raw all day ("why don't you buy a roast and cut it yourself? it's cheaper!") ... those new anti-feminist have full-time jobs and educations yet are expected to be domestic goddesses and enjoy it. Oh, and look flawless too, as we discussed in another post. I think this is just a new kind of oppression, and this time they embrace it, they proudly say "I'm not a feminist" while being expected by other women to "do it all" (I say other women because most husbands don't really care whether this or that is perfect)

[Austin]

Feminism is nothing more than the radical idea that women are fully human and entitled to all the same level of rights, responsibilities, and recognition as men.

The best hospital in my area is a large university hospital, so I don't think there's any argument that can be made that "Christian" hospitals are "better". I don't really understand what makes a hospital "Christian", anyway. We have a large Methodist-affiliated hospital in my area that is recognized as a good hospital. I say Methodist-affiliated because 80 or 90 years ago, the hospital was started by Methodists, so "Methodist" has remained in the name of the hospital, even though there is no religious overtone whatsoever. I'm not sure there's a comparison here between paying a "Christian" hospital to treat you and non-feminists taking advantage of the hard-won sacrifices of women of the various waves of feminism.

Women with primarily feminist values have let self-hating women and the men whose water they carry co-opt the word "feminist" from us and turn it into something ugly.. We need to take it back. The only way to do that is for all people that believe in feminism to self-identify as feminists. No one would ever meet me and peg me as a man-hating, child-hating bra burner, but I am a feminist and will identify as one in a NY second if the subject veers in that direction. Let them be surprised that a woman who adores her husband and thinks the sun shines out of her sons' asses, and who enjoys many things domestic and is family-oriented is a self-described feminist. And proud of it.

Liberals have let the same thing that happen with the word "liberal". If someone throws that word at me, I pick it up and put it on proudly and own it. Kind of takes the fun out of it for them. ;)

We should be who we want to be and pursue our own visions for our lives, no matter what they may be, but still take joy and pride in the fact that we are fully human, fully capable, and fully equal.

As far as not wanting to be labeled, I find that incredibly naive. Everybody is labeled, by themselves and others. It's just a matter of what those labels are, in both cases. We decide that by what is important to us and how we treat others. You have stand for something or you end up standing for nothing.

[Boltingmadonna]

I think what a lot of those "I'm not a feminist" people really mean is "I'm not any of the stereotypes that are often associated with feminism."

You may be right, O Latin. But in that case, she should never say "I'm a woman," because she will immediately be subject to a whole buttload of negative stereotypes that are often associated with women. We don't have the option to say "Well, I have a vagina, but I'm not really a woman." That, however, is kind of what anti-feminist women are saying. "Well, okay, I am a woman . . . but I'm not one of those BAD women! Not one of those stupid, emotional, dirty sluts and/or feminazis that you hate!"

To me, the fact that associating yourself with women's equality will immediately make some people dump on you proves the point that feminism is still needed.

[thoughtful]

Feminism is nothing more than the radical idea that women are fully human and entitled to all the same level of rights, responsibilities, and recognition as men.

(snip)

Women with primarily feminist values have let self-hating women and the men whose water they carry co-opt the word "feminist" from us and turn it into something ugly.. We need to take it back. The only way to do that is for all people that believe in feminism to self-identify as feminists. No one would ever meet me and peg me as a man-hating, child-hating bra burner, but I am a feminist and will identify as one in a NY second if the subject veers in that direction. Let them be surprised that a woman who adores her husband and thinks the sun shines out of her sons' asses, and who enjoys many things domestic and is family-oriented is a self-described feminist. And proud of it.

Liberals have let the same thing that happen with the word "liberal". If someone throws that word at me, I pick it up and put it on proudly and own it. Kind of takes the fun out of it for them. ;)

We should be who we want to be and pursue our own visions for our lives, no matter what they may be, but still take joy and pride in the fact that we are fully human, fully capable, and fully equal.

:clap:

[synchroswimr]

Tastes like chicken...

Mmmmmmm... Babies.

[Effie]

I like Emily's comment: "And I see Feminism the same way: a set of women struggling for basic freedoms... But despite the means that you disapprove of, many women acted out of love and respect for other women, seeking to better their lot as a whole, not just a personally selfish motive. And men and children benefit as well from having educated wives and mothers. " :clap:

[dawbs]

Yes, or very close to it. There was something in there about missing church, too.

I know this because, when he found out I had left fundie-U & was minoring in Women's Studies, a friend bought me a button that said "Sorry I missed church, I was practicing witchcraft & becoming a lesbian" that was based on the quote.

exact quote:

"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." - 1992 Iowa fundraising letter opposing a state equal-rights amendment

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson

(adding to my arsenal for my next discussion w/ idiot BIL. Because he'd not want to be associated w/ Pat Robertson. So he's not a complete idiot :)

[desertvixen]

Women with primarily feminist values have let self-hating women and the men whose water they carry co-opt the word "feminist" from us and turn it into something ugly.. We need to take it back. The only way to do that is for all people that believe in feminism to self-identify as feminists. No one would ever meet me and peg me as a man-hating, child-hating bra burner, but I am a feminist and will identify as one in a NY second if the subject veers in that direction. Let them be surprised that a woman who adores her husband and thinks the sun shines out of her sons' asses, and who enjoys many things domestic and is family-oriented is a self-described feminist. And proud of it.

There aren't enough clapping smileys to tell you how much I love this.

I agree, sometimes it's uncomfortable to deal with the label, but it needs to be done.

Besides, the thing is this:

Feminists don't hate men, most of us just want them to act like responsible grown people. Many of the people we discuss, in my opinion, dislike men - or at least treat them like spoiled children who must be appeased and babied at all costs, whether it's letting them make all the decisions or expecting women to cover up because men's eyes might be drawn to them.

Feminists don't hate children, but understand that not only does our society need to do a better job taking care of children, but that a woman's (or couple's) decision to children needs to be THEIR decision, not imposed on them by society. They need to make their own choice, whether the choice is none, one, two, or twelve.

Too many people who are made uncomfortable by feminism want to reduce it to a checklist, and that's just stupid. It's not about what we shave, what we wear, who we date, whether we keep our own name or whether we even bother with getting married at all. It's about believing that women are human beings with an equal right to make choices and not be treated like second class citizens who can't even decide on their own damn medical procedures.

Being a feminist isn't about just being female either - men can be as well (or at least feminist allies - I know that gets into touchy territory sometimes).

[LynnKaboom]

So because the original feminists shocked people they shouldn't have done what they did? Lots of things that are now considered normal once shocked people. Toilets INSIDE the house!? Shocking!

[Dinorah]

I'm not familiar with this specific blogger, but I find that all self-defined anti-feminists benefit from feminism in some way or other, and are therefore hypocritical. Yes, even the ones who don't move out and don't go to college or work. They're not doing any of these things, but it's not like they're foced by society not to, they can change their mind and give up the fundie lifestyle and society will accept it. They express their opinions in a public context constantly on their blogs, including anti-feminist rants. There are laws protecting them from abuse. I suppose at least some of them vote. While they might consider themselves under their father or husband's authority, once they are of age they aren't legally under the authority of either. If they really want an anti-feminist lifestyle, I suppose they move someplace like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

That's what bugs me of the whole anti-feminist movement, live your life as you wish but be aware of the advantages you have without bashing things you actually derive benefit from.