Andrea Yates Story on Biography

[GolightlyGrrl]

I don't have cable so I won't be able to see this, which is a shame. I truly think this is a story that needs to be told. Rusty is not at all blameless for this tragedy-not at all.

And Rusty Yates seems like the kind of guy Sunshine Mary and the Stinking Lousewife would spawn.

[BoomerLynn]

I think her mother is still alive, and she has several siblings. It's possible that Andrea herself doesn't want them to file a suit against Rusty, particularly if she's still anywhere near as devoutly Christian as she was before. If it is the case that she doesn't want to sue, I think it's high time that somebody respected her wishes.

Very good point. I never really thought about that, and I agree that if she didn't want a suit filed her wishes should be respected.

[Flossie]

trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/women/andrea_yates/index.html

I'm not certain how accurate this is, but the TruTV information on the Andrea Yates case does point out how Andrea's mental state had never been good.

I think they go easy on Rusty, but there appears to be documented evidence that he took her in for mental health issues several times over the years. That's nice, but there seems to be no indication that he did what was really needed. He didn't try hard enough to moniter her medications and continued to impregnant her. He was also the one who bought into the crazy ministers BS.

Seriously, who follows a man who considers women to be intrinsically evil and who tells his wife that she would be better off killing herself lest she lead their children astray? The crap this man and his wife told Andrea made her even more resistant to seeking help because she didn't want creepy minister guy, his wife, and her own husband to think even worse of her than they already did?

In the end, Andrea believed that she was going to hell and her only hope of saving the children was for them to die before they became too corrupted and all hope for them was lost.

[HoneyBunny]

I read every word of that psychiatric evaluation last night. Every word. Not exactly sleep-inducing reading material. I agree with what y'all have said about Rusty. What he did, and didn't do, was criminal, under the guise of religion. He just wanted to feel like "a man". Controlling. Powerful. Bastard.

I've also been thinking about those kids. Their life was no picnic: a cold, detached dad, a mentally ill, checked-out mother, lots of physical discipline, living in a bus. Being murdered by their own mother. Saddest reality ever.

[nokidsmom]

Very good point. I never really thought about that, and I agree that if she didn't want a suit filed her wishes should be respected.

Agree that Andrea probably wouldn't want her family to do that.

However, there's one question I have regarding a wrongful death suit: would it even be possible to file a suit against Rusty in absence of any legal charges such as gross negligence? It doesn't appear that he faced any kind of possible legal charges at all. That makes me think that there would be a good chance of a suit being thrown out.

[Mela99]

Agree that Andrea probably wouldn't want her family to do that.

However, there's one question I have regarding a wrongful death suit: would it even be possible to file a suit against Rusty in absence of any legal charges such as gross negligence? It doesn't appear that he faced any kind of possible legal charges at all. That makes me think that there would be a good chance of a suit being thrown out.

It's a civil case, not criminal so the burden is only that of a "preponderance of the evidence", making it more likely than not. They could absolutely file a wrongful death claim.

[greek_chorus]

Apparently Andrea petitioned the state to be allowed to attend church services nearby. I have no idea what the decision was. In some ways it's good to see her wanting to interact in society again, but the idea of her going to church does make me cringe a bit. Hopefully the church she asked to attend isn't filled with crazy Quiverfull, ATI, Gothard lovers.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNe ... ZuvC7XVB8E

[Hane]

I'm repulsed he found someone else to marry him and have kids with him. WTF is wrong with people?

Some women will settle for anything with a pulse and a dick. (The original saying was "any mammal with a day job," but now that most women can support themselves, a man's paycheck isn't all-important.)

[idonthaveajname]

Some women will settle for anything with a pulse and a dick. (The original saying was "any mammal with a day job," but now that most women can support themselves, a man's paycheck isn't all-important.)

It's true, unfortunately.

[JesusFightClub]

Apparently Andrea petitioned the state to be allowed to attend church services nearby. I have no idea what the decision was. In some ways it's good to see her wanting to interact in society again, but the idea of her going to church does make me cringe a bit. Hopefully the church she asked to attend isn't filled with crazy Quiverfull, ATI, Gothard lovers.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNe ... ZuvC7XVB8E

I'm hoping she gets a bit of comfort from it.

[laura oz]

I'm hoping she gets a bit of comfort from it.

Me too. When you've lost everything, sometimes, God is a refuge and comfort. God knows she needs that.

[Rescinded and Mended]

What always struck me as odd was the way Rusty acted oblivious, even as he showed he was completely informed about Andrea's mental illness and the way events unfolded. There's a 60 minutes interview on YouTube where he is asked point-blank if there was more he could have done to ease Andrea's burdens during their marriage. He gets defensive and insists they had a traditional marriage and that people just don't want to understand that.

This, combined with how quickly he stepped out with his new girlfriend after the funerals, makes me wonder if he ever truly cared about any of them at all. :(

[starfish]

I still believe Rusty Yates should have been charged with some form of negligence. This is a man who impregnated his wife against doctor's orders (even if she had wanted to, as the mentally stable one it was his responsibility to say no), got his family involved with some crazy preacher, and left Andrea alone with the kids when he wasn't supposed to. She now has to live knowing what she did when she was mentally unstable while he gets to go off and start a new family all while playing the victim card. Does Andrea have any family? I wonder why they haven't filed a wrongful death suit against Rusty.

Why the Harris County District Attorney's Office never filed Child Endangerment charges against Rusty baffles me and infuriates me. :angry-banghead:

Would you ever hire someone who was as mentally ill and violent as Andrea to watch your children?

No, of course, not because that constitutes child endangerment. Harris Co. was just a bunch of cowards for not going

after Rusty. A prosecution of Rusty would have sent a powerful message that you just can't leave your children with a mentally unstable person and hope for the best because you can't be bothered to help out with child care. His behavior wasn't just reprehensible, it was criminal.

I heard Rusty was going to law school, but nothing more. Has anyone else heard anything about this?

[Chicken bones]

[list=]

A few years ago, our local paper did an article on the treatment of another mother who killed her baby in a very horrific fit of religious mania/ post partum psychosis. Apparently, she's gotten to be friends with Andrea Yates in their facility, and she's been a comfort to this mother as they have been trying to deal with their actions. (This other case was just god-awful as well. As they all are, involving children.)

[starfish]

I've *heard* by way of nurses who have worked in both facilities where Andrea is incarcerated that not only is she on

constant suicide watch, but she also is constantly threatened by the other female inmates.

[JesusFightClub]

I've *heard* by way of nurses who have worked in both facilities where Andrea is incarcerated that not only is she on

constant suicide watch, but she also is constantly threatened by the other female inmates.

OMFG. How horrible.

[Hane]

I know of two cases, in my area, of parents who killed young children as the result of psychotic breaks. To their credit, the DAs agreed that these people were profoundly mentally ill, and had them remitted to a long-term treatment facility to get the help they needed, rather than making a courtroom circus out of the cases.

[already hungover]

A few years ago, our local paper did an article on the treatment of another mother who killed her baby in a very horrific fit of religious mania/ post partum psychosis. Apparently, she's gotten to be friends with Andrea Yates in their facility, and she's been a comfort to this mother as they have been trying to deal with their actions. (This other case was just god-awful as well. As they all are, involving children.)

When Andrea Yates was in the North Texas State Hospital, she was roommates with Dena Schlosser, who murdered her infant daughter in a particularly brutal fashion. I won't post the details here because it is horrifying and I don't want anyone to get upset, but the incident was religiously motivated and Schlosser is similar in many ways to Andrea Yates. She had a history of severe mental illness, including psychotic symptoms, married a husband who appeared not to give a shit, and was a member of a fringe church led by a charismatic whackjob. She has since been released from custody with the stipulation that she remain under psychiatric care. Her husband divorced her and she is required to never contact him or their surviving children again.

In some ways, I think it would be really good for Andrea Yates and women like her to live together and know that there are others who have experienced the same thing.

[starfish]

Dee Laney is another homeschooling, QF (sorta) fundie not too far from me who killed her two young sons, and then seriously injured the baby to where he will never walk, talk, eat without a tube, etc. She was tried, but found NG by reasons of insanity. She was Assembly of God. Her husband divorced her as fast as possible, and has remarried. One reason he divorced her was the expense. The state was going to stick him with the cost of her incarceration in the mental health facility, and he could not afford it. Also, he hated her by that point. No one in her family saw Dee Laney's breakdown coming. Being AOG, they assumed all that "end times", demon talk was typical.

[starfish]

When Andrea Yates was in the North Texas State Hospital, she was roommates with Dena Schlosser, who murdered her infant daughter in a particularly brutal fashion. I won't post the details here because it is horrifying and I don't want anyone to get upset, but the incident was religiously motivated and Schlosser is similar in many ways to Andrea Yates. She had a history of severe mental illness, including psychotic symptoms, married a husband who appeared not to give a shit, and was a member of a fringe church led by a charismatic whackjob. She has since been released from custody with the stipulation that she remain under psychiatric care. Her husband divorced her and she is required to never contact him or their surviving children again.

In some ways, I think it would be really good for Andrea Yates and women like her to live together and know that there are others who have experienced the same thing.

Dena Schlosser's husband was a complete weirdo who just didn't care and who just didn't get the extent of her mental illness. He didn't want to be bothered by it. Again, no prosecution by the DA.

Dena's been released by the hospital and judicial system. She had a job as a Walmart cashier in Kaufman County, but one of the customers recognized her and complained to the store. (I think she has changed her name...can't remember for sure). Anyway, I'm not sure if Walmart fired her or she quit, but she's no longer working there.

[already hungover]

She changed her name around the time she was released to outpatient care in 2008. The Walmart discovered her original identity fired her.

[laura oz]

That's so sad. She was only trying to work and provide for herself. How do people expect the poor woman to eat?smh

[Chicken bones]

That's so sad. She was only trying to work and provide for herself. How do people expect the poor woman to eat?smh

The whole situation was horribly sad. It made quite big news all around here, because of the horrific nature of it all, so I am not surprised she was recognized.

It may sound terrible, but if Andrea Yates wants to commit suicide, and she's medicated and in a stable mental state, jeez let the poor woman. I can't even begin to imagine the load of guilt and pain she carries, will always carry.

[TeaELSee]

I recommended it in another thread, but I recently read Are You There Alone? The Unspeakable Crime of Andrea Yates by Suzanne O'Malley. It was an excellent and engaging read, and despite the rather inflammatory subtitle, was fairly evenhanded in its approach. I feel fucking terrible for Andrea. So many times someone could have stepped in and nobody did. The poor woman picked bald spots on her head because she thought the devil had marked her with "666" under her hair, and still Rusty did nothing but get her pregnant again and again.

The part that I find most horrifying about the whole situation is that now, when Andrea is medicated properly and not actively psychotic, she understands what she did, knows that it wasn't something that God wanted her to do, and has to live with that. I have a lot of difficulty wrapping my head around that particular point.

Oh and also Rusty's a huge douche who seems to have gotten over his role in the tragedy and moved on with his shiny happy Jesusy life pretty quickly.

I read that book too, however I felt it was more sympathetic to Rusty. (not vs. Andrea) I didn't know he was a fundie/quiverful when I read it. I thought he was portrayed rightly or wrongly as desperatley trying to get her help. I did feel horrible for her and she was/is clearly advanced mentally ill. I have not seen the biography yet, I hope it is on demand.

[Burris]

When Andrea Yates was in the North Texas State Hospital, she was roommates with Dena Schlosser, who murdered her infant daughter in a particularly brutal fashion...the incident was religiously motivated and Schlosser is similar in many ways to Andrea Yates.

Not being familiar with Dena Schlosser, I looked her up on Wikipedia. The following passage, which discusses her case, jumped out for me:

During the trial, much attention was drawn to Dena and her husband John attending Water of Life Church, a fringe charismatic church pastored by Doyle Davidson. Schlosser had been taking antipsychotic drugs for several years, and Davidson's teachings that mental illness was demonic had reportedly given her pause about taking them. Under oath, Davidson testified that in his view, all mental illness is demonic at bottom. (Wiki)

Both cases – that of Andrea Yates and that of Dena Schlosser - feature a religious figure with no legitimate training in how to handle complex mental health issues. These men nonetheless provided “counselling†services to the Yates and Schlosser families.

Yates and Schlosser placed enormous trust in their pastors. And indeed pastors are supposed to be trustworthy – humble, wise, and aware of their own limitations. Those simple credentials are not merely inferred by looking at a patchwork of different Bible verses: They are listed -- 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9 -- as the criteria each individual must meet before qualifying for the pastorate.

The pastors’ job, as far as parishioners with mental health issues are concerned, is to offer comfort and to refer affected individuals to trained medical professionals who are fully licensed by an appropriate governing board. The pastors may or may not become part of the care team – but whatever part they play, it is not to give medical advice.

As I've pointed out previously, in a post about the bullshit that is nouthetic counseling, there are some pastors who - in their pride – in their arrogance – in their utter disregard for human life - believe that personal experience, coupled to a knowledge of Scripture, is sufficient to overcome their complete ignorance of mental health issues.

The cases under discussion here are but two examples of where (a) mental health issues are treated as either character flaws or at least subject to change by force of will; and (b) anti-intellectualism (of the same nature that fuels the untrained midwife industry) is not merely noxious but lethal.

Would Rusty Yates, who accepted a pastor’s word it was alright to push his wife off her medication, have allowed that same pastor to perform open-heart surgery on him in the belief that God would guide the knife? The answer is no, and the reason for that answer is clear: Rusty Yates knew his pastor was not a doctor; that going under the pastor’s knife would have cost Rusty his life.

If indeed a devil exists – a separate and living evil that delights in causing pain - then it did not animate either Andrea Yates or Dena Schlosser, neither of whom were of sound mind. Those women were not demon-possessed; they were mentally ill.

If indeed a devil exists, then such a creature would play on the human capacity to choose; it would encourage people of sound mind to decide, of their own volition, to follow an evil course that cuts right through other human beings. It would not possess, and it would ultimately not be responsible for the evil people do.

If indeed a devil exists, then it whispered its evil counsel in the ears of those pastors, uncovering the vainglorious pride necessary to tell an obviously hurting, burned out woman to stop taking her anti-psychotic medication and bear a(nother) child.

And though he be a willing pawn of his devil, the pastor is nonetheless entirely responsible for his part in a tragedy that could have been prevented.