Those poor persecuted evangelicals!

[Katiebug]

CNN's religion blog did a post on how some evangelicals feel that they are becoming a hated and persecuted minority for being willing to openly speak against homosexuality. Some interesting comments both in the article and the comments.

My first thought upon reading was an extremely sarcastic, "Oh, those poor persecuted Christians, however will they get by?" And I say this as a Christian myself. :lol:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/05/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority/?hpt=hp_c1

[yewchapel]

Rob Bell is an evangelical who is for marriage equality, I doubt he feels oppressed. People of of all faiths and none are hated when they oppose marriage equality because they're being assholes!

[RosyDaisy]

Evangelicals wouldn't know persecution if it bit them on the ass. They aren't harassed, censored, beaten, tortured, or killed for their beliefs. Challenging someone's beliefs or contradicting them is not even in the same realm as persecution.

[Childless]

Ugh. Some Christians have gotten so ridiculous. How am I supposed to take them seriously anymore? Just because something is happening that you do not support or someone disagrees with you, does not make you persecuted. Have any of them been spat on? Beaten up? Killed? Have they been refused service by business owners? Have they been prohibited from participating in groups/schools/etc.? Have they been told that they do not have the right to marry the person they love? Have they been denied the right to adopt? Do their families lack the protection of law that other families receive without question? Then, they are not persecuted. That is what has happened to the LGBT community. They are the persecuted ones.

[louisa05]

They want to be persecuted, though. It gives them a good testimony story. And then they can throw around these verses:

“Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you." —Matthew 5:10-12

If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.

—John 15:18-20

And they do. At "testimony time" when I worked in Christian school the super Christian kids who really wanted to please the admins and teachers would give "testimonies" about times they were persecuted and recite these passages. If they weren't crying persecution about this issue, they'd be crying it about something else. But the common denominator in all of it is that it is never really persecution.

[FlorenceHamilton]

It has become clear that the Christian Right defines persecution any time they are asked or required to accept that Non-Christian, non-white, non-heterosexual, unmarried parent, adult living in an unmarried committed relationship, non-American born, female, have the same rights as do they.

[louisa05]

It has become clear that the Christian Right defines persecution any time they are asked or required to accept that Non-Christian, non-white, non-heterosexual, unmarried parent, adult living in an unmarried committed relationship, non-American born, female, have the same rights as do they.

That. And any time that their religion and their personal preferences aren't put at the forefront of all of society--such as the imaginary "war on Christmas". Or any time that the political candidate they prefer is not elected. Or any time that someone tells them it is perhaps not a great time to pray and could they save it for later. Real example:

The Christian school I taught at could not offer a full slate of sports, so they had a co-op deal with a nearby Catholic school for students to play on certain teams there. One girl, who won the "best Christian" award for her class every year of high school (it wasn't called that but that's what it was), was a talented softball player and was the starting catcher on the Catholic school's team as a freshman. She saw this as a great evangelism opportunity to "save" her teammates. She was working on one pitcher in particular and during a game one day, the pitcher was having a hard time and our girl started calling frequent timeouts to go to the mound to get the pitcher to pray with her about it. Predictably, the umpire wanted the game to start moving and told her coach she had to stop going to the mound. Coach told her no more timeouts unless he called them. She told him they were praying. Coach told her it was not a good time for praying.

That week in chapel, she told the story of how she was persecuted for praying and the coach was a tool of Satan stopping her from "saving" her teammate. She recited the verses I previously posted. The principal talked about how great she was and there was a standing ovation by the end. :angry-banghead:

[FlorenceHamilton]

They want to be persecuted, though. It gives them a good testimony story. And then they can throw around these verses:

“Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you." —Matthew 5:10-12

If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.

—John 15:18-20

And they do. At "testimony time" when I worked in Christian school the super Christian kids who really wanted to please the admins and teachers would give "testimonies" about times they were persecuted and recite these passages. If they weren't crying persecution about this issue, they'd be crying it about something else. But the common denominator in all of it is that it is never really persecution.

It is really diabolically brilliant to include this headset into the belief system. Those ancients created a great "Catch 22". They really believe that they are not persecuting others, that they are saving them. They seem to be blind to the fact that there are literally millions of perfectly wonderful people whose deserve equal respect. Maybe not blind. Perhaps they do see it, but consider what they see to be the temptation of Satan.

It is interesting that the belief systems that are dominant today. (mainstream) were called cults in the ancient world.

[RosyDaisy]

It's a defense mechanism. Most fundies I know do not have the ability to think or interpret the Bible for themselves. So, when they can't answer a simple question about their beliefs, they will always cry persecution.

[yewchapel]

There ARE genuinely persecuted Christians in some parts of the world, eg parts of the Middle East, parts of the Indian subcontinent etc, but not in the US.

[Anxious Girl]

Are Evangelical Christians being put in jail or killed for their beliefs? Are they told that they're playing the "reliigious card" by a government that's full of non-Christians and atheists? If no, then they should shut the fuck up. Yes, Xtianity has been used for horrible deeds in the past. Haven't these evangelicals heard of the Crusades, Inquesitions, pogroms and witch hunts? Have Christians been told that they have shouldn't have Hollywood jobs and own companies because they killed a Jewish Messiah and being accused of controlling the banks?

Xtianity has persecuted far more people than non-Christians have persecuted Christians. If they have a problem with people critiquing their religion, then they should shut the fuck up.

Oh, and Ursula has something to say:

VyFVG4VfPmg

[salex]

They want to be persecuted, though. It gives them a good testimony story. And then they can throw around these verses:

“Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you." —Matthew 5:10-12

If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.

—John 15:18-20

And they do. At "testimony time" when I worked in Christian school the super Christian kids who really wanted to please the admins and teachers would give "testimonies" about times they were persecuted and recite these passages. If they weren't crying persecution about this issue, they'd be crying it about something else. But the common denominator in all of it is that it is never really persecution.

I saw a liberal Christian once say that, for any Christian living in the US, you have to try pretty hard to be remotely Persecuted / Hated for your faith, so some of these people try pretty hard....

[Minerva]

The American Christian persecution complex is the adult equivalent of the 14-year-old who has a sip of beer at a party then goes around saying "I was sooo wasted last night."

[JenniferJuniper]

Let's see.

They act like total assholes to people who don't share their oppressive belief system. And then when they are called out for being the oppressive assholes they are, they scream about how they are ones being oppressed.

It's just like the racists who say it's racist for anyone to call them racists.

The projection going on here is deafening.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Evangelicals wouldn't know persecution if it bit them on the ass. They aren't harassed, censored, beaten, tortured, or killed for their beliefs. Challenging someone's beliefs or contradicting them is not even in the same realm as persecution.

Evangelicals have their own universities and colleges. Many Evangelicals are in positions in power in the media, charitable foundations, think tanks, politics, education, sports and business. Evangelical have multi-media channels including TV stations (including local channels-Milwaukee has one), news publications, radio shows, on-line content, books, etc. Billy Graham was pretty much appointed the Pope of the Protestants and had access the many Presidents.

Persecution? Yea, right.

[Just Not Good]

When exposed to outside thought on a regular basis, people learn that disagreement does not equal persecution. Maybe insularity is part of the problem!

[Salamander]

[mlady]

And they do. At "testimony time" when I worked in Christian school the super Christian kids who really wanted to please the admins and teachers would give "testimonies" about times they were persecuted and recite these passages. If they weren't crying persecution about this issue, they'd be crying it about something else. But the common denominator in all of it is that it is never really persecution.

I've seen this so many times. Crying about something. The exaggerated testimonies that get more colorful with each telling. One of the last times my daughter went to church (a popular high school youth group she got caught up in for a few years) she came home so annoyed by a girl who had been her best friend since 3rd grade who got up and asked for a prayer request for some distant relative she hadn't seen in 10 years who was sick (not deathly sick, just sick). She CRIED about it. Another boy had the gall to talked about Christian persecution at school when that's where the very same youth group was the most active! Persecuted because other people wanted to eat lunch at lunch time and not hear the story of Jesus from a guy they never hung out with and thougt was werid even BEFORE his big religious conversion. Who would have thunk it?

[docmom]

They want to be persecuted, though.

This! They need to be persecuted. It's part of being a good Christian in their eyes and if they're not actually persecuted they need to make something up. They also claim to live seperately from the world but retain all the comforts of modern life (electricity, internet, cell phones, modern medicine). Really with all the hipocrasy it's tough to understand what otherwise intelligent people see in the movement (they're not all idiots).

[RachelB]

Fred Clark at The Slactivist observes that the very American Christians who claim to be persecuted also claim that their faith is so normative in the United States that it's the basis for the government, the legal system, and the broader culture. (Hence, why they, in their own minds, deserve special privileges that other people don't get-- e.g., a federal holiday that corresponds to one of their most significant religious festivals.)

Problem is, these claims cannot both simultaneously be true.

[jenny_islander]

There ARE genuinely persecuted Christians in some parts of the world, eg parts of the Middle East, parts of the Indian subcontinent etc, but not in the US.

But it's only in heavily Christianized countries where people cry persecution over being disagreed with. And I've never met one of these "Gays are hijacking my THOUGHTS war on CHRISTMAS SATAN WANTS MAH TAX DOLLAHS" types who cried persecution about anybody but himself and his like-minded wankers.

Meanwhile, their fellow Christians in countries outside Christendom are living in unmitigated misery and genuine fear of actual death. Ten minutes on Google yielded these situations:

*The president of your country has promised that your country will be "free of Christians" by a specified date. Yes, that means you.

*Your congregation doesn't have a church and isn't allowed to build one, so you meet in a public park. Plainclothes cops watch you every step of the way, and they may decide that you won't be going home today. It's happened to your fellow parishioners, people you know. Your only crimes are reading the Bible and praying together.

*The government of your country looked the other way while Christians were pushed right down to the bottom of the economy, becoming in effect a separate caste of trash pickers. That's how your family has lived for several generations now. First they picked up people's household trash for a small fee, recycled most of it, fed some to pigs, and burned the rest. Then the government decided that carting everything to a dump would be more hygienic, but didn't bother to hire your family or co-religionists. However, they didn't object when you all moved out to the damn dump, along with your pigs. So now you live in the dump, making no money at all, but at least you can build trash shanties and keep pigs to supplement the food you pick out of other people's garbage. Except that the government rounded up and slaughtered your pigs.

*You're saving up for plane tickets to get the hell out of your ancestral country while some of the oldest churches in the world are going down to the bulldozers.

Meanwhile, the Christians of Christendom have to admit that people of the same biological sex can fall in love and can't force non-Christians to pray Christian prayers or recite Christian shibboleths.

Oh, BAWWWWW.

[oil]

CNN's religion blog did a post on how some evangelicals feel that they are becoming a hated and persecuted minority for being willing to openly speak against homosexuality. Some interesting comments both in the article and the comments.

My first thought upon reading was an extremely sarcastic, "Oh, those poor persecuted Christians, however will they get by?" And I say this as a Christian myself. :lol:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/05/when-christians-become-a-hated-minority/?hpt=hp_c1

I was going to write just like all of you the anger at the christians for saying how persecuted they are. That kind of talk makes me sick, for them to say they are persecuted. But then I read the article and I didnt see it. Show me where they said they are "becoming hated and persecuted". Maybe I didnt read it well?? If I am going to smash the guy in this article, I want to be fair about it and not put word in his mouth.

I know they act like wa wa wa we are persecuted, but where do they really SAY the words?

[singsingsing]

There's an Iron & Wine lyric that goes, "There ain't a penthouse Christian wants the pain of the scab, but they all want the scar." That's basically it with these people. They lead an privileged existence in one of the richest countries on earth where their religion is practically the state religion. They have no idea what persecution is, but they think that the more they cry persecution, the holier they look. They want to feel like they're fighting in the war against good and evil. So rather than trying to stamp out REAL EVIL in the world like homeless children, young girls being sold as sex slaves, people who go bankrupt because of medical bills - they choose to focus on the 'HORROR' that is two consenting adults of the same sex getting married. Why? Because it's easy. It's an easy thing to rant and rave about, because they can do it without stepping foot outside their McMansions. Open your Bible. Jesus had nothing at all to say about homosexuals, but he sure had a lot to say about hypocrites.

[Stephanie66]

Until there are signs in public parks that say, "No evangelical Christians or dogs allowed", they are not persecuted.

So they don't want marriage equality and it's happening anyway? Cry me a river.

[crazyforkate]

Jesus, guys, let's have a recap. Freedom of religion does NOT equal freedom from criticism. Got it? No? I'll go get my Bart Simpson chalkboard.