Couple's Baby Taken By Police

[mockingbird]

I agree CPS often has too little power or resources.

The answer the nurse gave them was unacceptable and it is totally within their rights to seek a second opinion. I almost want to hope there was more to the story because otherwise it's just so messed up on the part of the hospital and CPS. I know sometimes if the person isn't stable enough to be taken out of the hospital you can have their records forwarded to another doctor to get the second opinion (and later transfer them if you want them to be cared for by the new doctor).

[Verin Sedai]

There was a social worker in our NICU who was very sweet to you if you played her right (she did sibling counselling with our preschooler) but it was known that you should NOT rub her the wrong way. I knew a couple in there who got belligerent with her and she ended up calling in CPS when they didn't call every day when they were away for two days getting their house set up to bring baby home (they had let one nurse know this was their plan but the nurses were bad at communicating with each other, so the next shift assumed they were AWOL).

CPS ended up dropping the issue after investigating and getting letters from every other NICU parent at the Ronald Mcdonald House vouching for this couple, but the social worker definitely let her spite influence her jdugment in reporting them. I say this not to attack CPS as a whole (thank God for them) but to say that yes, there are craziest and asshats in every job, even those who should be trying to help families.

[the 4th survivor]

So at what point is it okay to physically defend yourself? Just curious. If these were regular criminals that couple would have every right to "pop a cap" in the intruders trying to restrain them and kidnap their kid. What makes this different?

[Anxious Girl]

So at what point is it okay to physically defend yourself? Just curious. If these were regular criminals that couple would have every right to "pop a cap" in the intruders trying to restrain them and kidnap their kid. What makes this different?

Here's your thread where you didn't answer questions, you shit-stirring troll: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16167

[notsocommon]

Not do anything that will make you look like an insane nutjob who shouldnt be trusted around children? Not try and get yourself to jail where your child would be taken away from you anyway?

There you go, using common sense and brains. We all know the gun nutters have neither. :naughty:

[Arete]

This case may be an abuse, but some perspective needs to be kept with stories of toddlers being temporarily removed from homes because they were wandering highways, or because they were reported for an injury in an emergency room. The fact of the matter is, a toddler loose on the highway or with a broken bone could be a lot of things. It could be an accident, abuse, neglect, even abandonment. Unless an investigation is done, how the hell is a caseworker supposed to know? Take their best guess? I'd rather have them err on the side of caution. No matter what anyone says, family reunification IS the goal. They do not go around ripping kids from their mothers' arms to sell them on the adoption market (oh wait, those would be evangelical Christian serial adoptors, never mind).

Even in this case, there are procedures for reporting caseworkers and legal ways to get abuses and grievances addressed. Problems can be fixed or fired. They can be used as lessons on what not to do. Dead children cannot come back to life.

[Beammeup]

Way better than threatening violence is begging, borrowing, stealing, and selling whatever you have to and hiring an experienced lawyer. That's really the only way to get fair treatment.

[Mama Mia]

I'm not a troll. Of course I know you guys don't agree with my beliefs and that's why I came here because I want to debate. Not trolling at all.

Anyway what do you guys suggest? Just let the government have their way with you? This couple had their rights violated in one of the worst ways. Read the details, it's not like CPS just politely took the baby away. Do you not think they had a right to defend themselves?

I completely agree that CPS acted horribly in this situation. It was a complete abuse of power and devoid of any hint of common sense.

If it was my child I would be completely distraught and probably do what these parents did - go to the media. Because the word of x random parent vs random giant medical corporation is useless.

Taking up a gun to keep the baby would have resulted in losing the baby, most likely permanently. If they were lucky and the baby wasn't shot in the cross fire. And probably being sent to prison. The parents would also go from being sympathetic victims of an over-zealous government system to violent fringe element without the common sense to care for a child.

The entire argument that "law abiding" citizens should have guns to protect themselves from the government baffles me. Where do you draw the lines ? Is it at cps involvement, tax collection, laws you just don't like ? If you think the government shouldn't tell you to jay walk, do you shoot the cop who tries to give you a citation ?

And what is the difference between defending yourself from the police for overstepping and trying to take your baby and defending yourself from the police who are trying to threaten your right to free commerce by busting your cocaine deal ? How do you decide who is a "criminal" and who is a "freedom fighter" in those circumstances ?

[Wolfie]

I don't believe that CPS has too much power. There may be a few fringe cases like this, but for the most part it's actually quite difficult to protect abused and neglected children. I mean, you can allow a child die to do medical neglect and get to keep your 7+ other children until you kill another one in the same fashion. You can spend all day beating your children and brag about it on your blog. You can publicly admit that you put your infant on a blanket and then lure them off with toys just so you can hit them. These are all things that parents have done, that we've discussed on this board. CPS has too little power, IMO.

This. My dad worked for DSS for a long time and the main goal was to keep families togther. The only time that CPS will suddenly take a child is if they feel that the child's life is in danger.

[theologygeek]

I'm not a troll. Of course I know you guys don't agree with my beliefs and that's why I came here because I want to debate. Not trolling at all.

Anyway what do you guys suggest? Just let the government have their way with you? This couple had their rights violated in one of the worst ways. Read the details, it's not like CPS just politely took the baby away. Do you not think they had a right to defend themselves?

As much as any mother would like to shred someone to smithereens for taking her baby away from her, you can't shoot a CPS worker. You would be on the run for the rest of your life. It is no way to live. If you cooperated, you'd get your baby back. Cooperating is the lesser of two evils.

[PennySycamore]

I'm not a troll. Of course I know you guys don't agree with my beliefs and that's why I came here because I want to debate. Not trolling at all.

Anyway what do you guys suggest? Just let the government have their way with you? This couple had their rights violated in one of the worst ways. Read the details, it's not like CPS just politely took the baby away. Do you not think they had a right to defend themselves?

NOT WITH A GODDAMN GUN, I DON'T!!

[roddma]

Roddma, this happened locally to me recently too- are you by any chance in the Carolinas?

No Tennesee

[roddma]

If a two year old was founding wandering a busy highway, CPS sure as hell better be investigating.

Do you think people want to be social workers so they can rip families apart?

This particular case is terrifying and seems to show CPS overstepping their boundaries, but I doubt the media has the whole story. I do think social services should investigate if a parent is denying medical treatment for their child or a doctor suspects that's the case.

That doesn't give them a right to just yank the child away. As soon as he was found, the child never went back to the home. At least the child could be taken back and then investigate with a warning given. As the article said, the parents tried to child-proof the home. Kids are unpredictable sometimes. They can get away from you and pull other stunts no matter how careful you are. My cousin got into some pills when she was two. No CPS was involved. CPS needs serious reforming.

[VaSportsMom]

I think the reason CPS acts the way they do now is there aren't enough babies in the foster care system. People who seek adoption aren't commonly looking for teenagers or pre-teens. I have read on this. The fact they can just remove a toddler from a loving home with no records and let someone get away with beating or praying over ill children with previous records makes sense in that perspective. I really don't have an explanation for their actions at times. I agree their definition neglect needs to be revaluated.

Wait, you think that CPS is spending their limited resources to go around stealing babies (and paying families to foster these children with the same limited funds) just so they can adopt them out? Seriously?

[doggie]

I'm not a troll. Of course I know you guys don't agree with my beliefs and that's why I came here because I want to debate. Not trolling at all.

Anyway what do you guys suggest? Just let the government have their way with you? This couple had their rights violated in one of the worst ways. Read the details, it's not like CPS just politely took the baby away. Do you not think they had a right to defend themselves?

If the people Defended themselves they both could die the child could die the least would be they would be in jail doing the child no good.

[TheLurkingFrumper]

The thing that stands out me about this situation is the parents took the child out of the hospital with discharging him. I also noticed that the child had a breathing tube. If they didn't tell anyone they were leaving, they many have removed medical breathing/mointoring equipment from their child and just left. This might be the reason why CPS reacted strongly.

[BriMamai]

The thing that stands out me about this situation is the parents took the child out of the hospital with discharging him. I also noticed that the child had a breathing tube. If they didn't tell anyone they were leaving, they many have removed medical breathing/mointoring equipment from their child and just left. This might be the reason why CPS reacted strongly.

It was a feeding tube. And he didn't have it in all the pictures in the first article. Those were home videos in the update. Often kids with congenital issues will have difficulty eating enough to gain weight and get supplemental feeds via feeding tubes while they learn to eat more efficiently and can gain weight normally. Then it can come out and they eat like normal kids. What I am trying to say is he likely did not have the feeding tube removed by his parents because the picture of him without it is an older, chubbier baby.

[roddma]

Wait, you think that CPS is spending their limited resources to go around stealing babies (and paying families to foster these children with the same limited funds) just so they can adopt them out? Seriously?

You would be surprised. Many false allegations are filed and too much time spent on those while the real abusers get away. Google CPS abuse of power. I don't have time right now to sift through everything.

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-truth-child ... 44094.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/money-child-pro ... tml?cat=25

[VaSportsMom]

You would be surprised. Many false allegations are filed and too much time spent on those while the real abusers get away. Google CPS abuse of power. I don't have time right now to sift through everything.

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-truth-child ... 44094.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/money-child-pro ... tml?cat=25

I should bow out because this is really pissing me off but... I'm currently in the middle of a CPS nightmare and it took a year of hell to get my nieces out of the home. A year of sleeping with my phone in my hand and just praying that a 5 year old would remember where she hid my number so she could call me if things got too bad. A year of crying, begging and pleading with CPS to do more than give warnings and recommend classes. A year of hoping that their mother or her goddamn bed buddy wouldn't pass out and wake up to find that the girls had set the house on fire or cut them self just trying to feed themselves. CPS is guilty of a lot of things and the system could use an overhaul but removing kids for the hell of it isn't one of their common faults. Yes, it happens on occasion but we don't have CPS workers touring the country and grabbing up all the cute, white kids to auction them off to the highest bidder.

[ShesCrafty]

You would be surprised. Many false allegations are filed and too much time spent on those while the real abusers get away. Google CPS abuse of power. I don't have time right now to sift through everything.

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-truth-child ... 44094.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/money-child-pro ... tml?cat=25

You're making some pretty outrageous claims against people who, 99.9% of the time, are just trying to do what is in the best interest of the child. I ask again, do you have any research to back up your claims? And by research, I mean actual studies. Published in research journals. Not Yahoo! If so, please provide it. If not, then maybe STFU about something you seem to know absolutely nothing about.

[Patsy]

Shooting or threatening a CPS worker means that you have a very slim chance of ever getting your child back.

It might get them removed from their loving, stable foster parents with no chance of ever reuniting, though. /personal anecdata

[meda]

You would be surprised. Many false allegations are filed and too much time spent on those while the real abusers get away. Google CPS abuse of power. I don't have time right now to sift through everything.

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-truth-child ... 44094.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/money-child-pro ... tml?cat=25

So your source for the theory that CPS is taking all the babeez for profit are two annonomous yahoo articles, both of which are factually incorrect about social services law, process and funding, and one of which is authored by some loon with 7 children living in a condemned house, who is miffed that her children were removed from those living conditions for a month?

For what it's worth, if my toddler is ever unsupervised long enough to be wandering alongside a highway, I damn well better be investigated before that kid is returned to me. That's how it should work.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I think the reason CPS acts the way they do now is there aren't enough babies in the foster care system. People who seek adoption aren't commonly looking for teenagers or pre-teens. I have read on this. The fact they can just remove a toddler from a loving home with no records and let someone get away with beating or praying over ill children with previous records makes sense in that perspective. I really don't have an explanation for their actions at times. I agree their definition neglect needs to be revaluated.

Seriously, WTF? Do you honestly believe that crap you wrote?

System capacity varies from place to place, but in many cases, there aren't enough beds in foster care.

CPS gains nothing from placing infants in adoptive homes.

They are generally quicker to remove infants than older children for two reasons:

1. The stakes are higher. Infants are physically more vulnerable, and nobody wants a dead baby case.

2. When it comes to long-term planning, if parents are clearly not fit, the ideal is to avoid a situation where a child is bouncing around foster care for 18 years. In my jurisdiction (Ontario, Canada), the deadlines are shorter for younger children, so they need to do permanency planning earlier.

Also, don't forget that there isn't just one CPS. The laws are different in each state and province, and each local agency/office has its own management. It's not like the over-zealous worker who seizes a toddler is the same worker who leaves children in a home where they are being beaten.

And no, I don't consider random internet sites to be reliable sources of information. I've done family and child protection law for 16 years, for both parents and a CPS agency, and it is impossible to know the full story in any case without having access to ALL of the information and documents.

[moonbeam59]

You would be surprised. Many false allegations are filed and too much time spent on those while the real abusers get away. Google CPS abuse of power. I don't have time right now to sift through everything.

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-truth-child ... 44094.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/money-child-pro ... tml?cat=25

Do you believe everything you read on the internet?

Two yahoo posts hardly constitute convincing evidence.

[2xx1xy1JD]

So at what point is it okay to physically defend yourself? Just curious. If these were regular criminals that couple would have every right to "pop a cap" in the intruders trying to restrain them and kidnap their kid. What makes this different?

Um, try the fact that CPS is lawfully permitted to intervene and apprehend children?

I had a client who tried bringing out a knife while at the CPS office. A SWAT team used tear gas to get him out. Needless to say, he wasn't allowed to see his kids again.

Here, police provide assistance with apprehensions. Shoot a cop and it's first degree murder charges.