"Accidental Racist"

[debrand]

[quo. My views on it are a bit complicated and I admit I don't know exactly how I feel about as a white (non-native) Southerner.

I do agree, however, that country music now sucks horribly and it's all redneck pop.

I am from NC and I give you permission to hate the Confederate flag even though you aren't from the south. :)

[Gil]

Lynyrd Skynyrd T-shirt emblazoned with the Confederate flag because “Our generation didn’t start this nation/And we’re still paying for mistakes/That a bunch of folks made long before we came/And (are) caught between Southern pride and Southern blameâ€

That is almost certainly the battle flag, not a Confederate national flag. Not that the latter would be any better, but the "Confederate flag" -- i.e, the battle flag -- is a symbol of active militaristic aggression in defense of horrible racist structures. It's not a symbol of the nation. It is a symbol of the war.

The lack of awareness to this difference tells me everything I need to know about how important the ~culture (or "nation" or "history" or whatever justification) is to people who whine about how oppressed they are as Southerners who just want to show their pride.

[starfish]

The song is dumb, I don't listen to this artist, but I'd take a Jerry Jeff Walker country song over most of the crap played over the current radio stations any day.

The entire county has a deplorable history of racism, not just the south. Remember that Delaware and Maryland, two states who fought for the Union, did not ban slavery until after the civil war. Robert E. Lee had freed all of his slaves before the war, but Ulysses S. Grant did not free his until well after the war. Most of the north wasn't exactly a nirvana for African-Americans. Ever heard some of Lincoln's comments about African-Americans? Pretty interesting stuff there.

If the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism, consider the Stars and Stripes. The Confederate flag never flew over a slave ship but the American flag did. Every slave entering this country did so on an American ship with Northern Captains, with Northern financing and flying the US flag. Prominent New England families in Rhode Island and Connecticut made a fortune off the filthy slave trade business. Ask the Native Americans which flag they find more racist or representative of terrorism.

Many of the world's flags have flown over slavery, and while that may be unfortunate, it does not define the entire history of those nations. Greece, South Africa, and Zimbawee are three examples that come to mind. I would argue that the Confederate Battle flag is a cultural emblem, and I disagree with dismantling of southern history based upon the mistaken assumption that the Confederate flag is representative of racism.

The Civil Way was about states' rights. To say that it's exclusively about slavery is re-writing history, which I understand is the privilege of the victor. I'd also like to add that it was Lyndon Baines Johnson, a Texan, that was able to get the Civil Rights Act passed. I know JFK is the more glamorous president, but he lacked the political muscle and willpower it took to achieve passage of the CRA.

[starfish]

Wow.

I'm going to refer back to my comment to Samurai Sarah on the Holocaust remembrance thread. Time alone does not heal wounds. What I admire about post-war Germany was the fact that there was an active acknowledgement of wrongdoing, some real shame and introspection, and a commitment to change in the future. It is actually illegal in Germany to display Nazi symbols. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgeset ... ection_86a (I'm not saying that absolutely no Nazi sympathy remained anywhere, just acknowledging official actions and a pretty widespread mood.) How we relate to the past, including the symbols that we choose to use TODAY, affects the present. You don't move past old conflicts by wearing symbols of that racist past, because before you open your mouth, it instantly sends a message and creates an atmosphere where someone else can truly fear that you long for a past of racism and slavery.

Yep, the Germans sure like to ban things. I'll take the First Amendment.

[Claddagh]

I heard part of the song but had to quit before it was half way done.

An article on Cracked rips the song a new one. Some of the comments are rage worthy just to warn you.

cracked.com/blog/the-10-most-racist-moments-from-song-about-ending-racism/

[MyNameIsJonas]

The song is dumb, I don't listen to this artist, but I'd take a Jerry Jeff Walker country song over most of the crap played over the current radio stations any day.

The entire county has a deplorable history of racism, not just the south. Remember that Delaware and Maryland, two states who fought for the Union, did not ban slavery until after the civil war. Robert E. Lee had freed all of his slaves before the war, but Ulysses S. Grant did not free his until well after the war. Most of the north wasn't exactly a nirvana for African-Americans. Ever heard some of Lincoln's comments about African-Americans? Pretty interesting stuff there.

If the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism, consider the Stars and Stripes. The Confederate flag never flew over a slave ship but the American flag did. Every slave entering this country did so on an American ship with Northern Captains, with Northern financing and flying the US flag. Prominent New England families in Rhode Island and Connecticut made a fortune off the filthy slave trade business. Ask the Native Americans which flag they find more racist or representative of terrorism.

Many of the world's flags have flown over slavery, and while that may be unfortunate, it does not define the entire history of those nations. Greece, South Africa, and Zimbawee are three examples that come to mind. I would argue that the Confederate Battle flag is a cultural emblem, and I disagree with dismantling of southern history based upon the mistaken assumption that the Confederate flag is representative of racism.

The Civil Way was about states' rights. To say that it's exclusively about slavery is re-writing history, which I understand is the privilege of the victor. I'd also like to add that it was Lyndon Baines Johnson, a Texan, that was able to get the Civil Rights Act passed. I know JFK is the more glamorous president, but he lacked the political muscle and willpower it took to achieve passage of the CRA.

Sigh. It's like you pulled all of this out of 'Deflecting the Blame for Racism, Vol. 1 Issue 3'.

Bolding Mine.

[sparkles]

I finally heard about the song on CBS This Morning and woo boy! I have no doubt that they had good intentions but its just so wrong on so many levels. As one of the commenters put it (paraphrasing) "yeah, I'll forgive you for centuries of enslavement if you can accept my fashion choices." WTF were they thinking?

[Guest Anonymous]

Many of the world's flags have flown over slavery, and while that may be unfortunate, it does not define the entire history of those nations. Greece, South Africa, and Zimbawee are three examples that come to mind. I would argue that the Confederate Battle flag is a cultural emblem, and I disagree with dismantling of southern history based upon the mistaken assumption that the Confederate flag is representative of racism.

South Africa and Zimbabwe are actually pretty good examples of how countries can change their national symbols to reflect political change and make a break from the past. For example, the current South African flag was introduced in 1994 to represent the transition into non-racial democracy.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Yep, the Germans sure like to ban things. I'll take the First Amendment.

My point wasn't that limiting free speech is good - it was that, on an official level, Germany made it clear that symbols associated with the Nazi era were bad. The past was acknowledged, and not seen as a source of pride. It wasn't "hey, the Nazi version of the swastika is just about German pride, the Jew-killing was just one aspect but people forget the good stuff like Germany bouncing back after the Treaty of Versailles, and the war was really about the Allies wanting to keep Germany down."

As AudreyParker said as well - South Africa deliberately designed an entirely new flag after the end of apartheid.

Rhodesia was also a racist state, and Zimbabwe was a definite example of regime change. (Mugabe's rule has been brutal and incompetent, but it marked a definite change from Rhodesia)

[dramallama]

What is it with U.S. and Israel anyway? Apparently you (U.S) are very Israel-friendly? Why? I don't get it... but I'm probably quite influenced by my (northern) European culture in that aspect... We are not necessarily anti-Israel, but anti the regime of Israel. We are pro-Palestine. I have seen people wearing the Palestine scarf ever since I can remember. The support for Palestine against the oppressive Israel has always been there. It's so deeply rooted in our culture that I have never heard anyone express any support for Israel in the Gaza-conflict. The news articles about Israel/ Palestine are always critical of Israel, and sometimes a little critical of Palestine .

There's a strain of Christianity in America that supports Israel because they believe it's going to trigger the rapture/end times. Something about rebuilding the Temple, I don't remember all of the details. Seriously. Also they hate Muslims.

[formergothardite]

The song is dumb, I don't listen to this artist, but I'd take a Jerry Jeff Walker country song over most of the crap played over the current radio stations any day.

The entire county has a deplorable history of racism, not just the south. Remember that Delaware and Maryland, two states who fought for the Union, did not ban slavery until after the civil war. Robert E. Lee had freed all of his slaves before the war, but Ulysses S. Grant did not free his until well after the war. Most of the north wasn't exactly a nirvana for African-Americans. Ever heard some of Lincoln's comments about African-Americans? Pretty interesting stuff there.

If the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism, consider the Stars and Stripes. The Confederate flag never flew over a slave ship but the American flag did. Every slave entering this country did so on an American ship with Northern Captains, with Northern financing and flying the US flag. Prominent New England families in Rhode Island and Connecticut made a fortune off the filthy slave trade business. Ask the Native Americans which flag they find more racist or representative of terrorism.

Many of the world's flags have flown over slavery, and while that may be unfortunate, it does not define the entire history of those nations. Greece, South Africa, and Zimbawee are three examples that come to mind. I would argue that the Confederate Battle flag is a cultural emblem, and I disagree with dismantling of southern history based upon the mistaken assumption that the Confederate flag is representative of racism.

The Civil Way was about states' rights. To say that it's exclusively about slavery is re-writing history, which I understand is the privilege of the victor. I'd also like to add that it was Lyndon Baines Johnson, a Texan, that was able to get the Civil Rights Act passed. I know JFK is the more glamorous president, but he lacked the political muscle and willpower it took to achieve passage of the CRA.

And one of those rights were slavery. As a person from the South we need to really stop acting like the Civil War wasn't about slavery.

[starfish]

Sigh. It's like you pulled all of this out of 'Deflecting the Blame for Racism, Vol. 1 Issue 3'.

Bolding Mine.

And it's like you pulled this out of the NAACP handbook. There are lots of worse problems than the Confederate flag. But it's an awfully easy target, just right for people who have chosen to ignore a lot of history.

[MyNameIsJonas]

And it's like you pulled this out of the NAACP handbook. There are lots of worse problems than the Confederate flag. But it's an awfully easy target, just right for people who have chosen to ignore a lot of history.

Pulled what, exactly, out of the NAACP handbook? I have many, many issues with the NAACP but I suppose that my disagreeing with your post leads you to believe that I support every black-run organization in the US. :roll: Your post was full of deflection, period.

[meda]

Actually, Grant freed the only slave he ever owned in 1859, before the war

http://www.nps.gov/ulsg/historyculture/slaveryatwh.htm

Also, the "rights" the states were fighting for was their right to own other human beings:

"For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property"

http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html

LBJ did pass the civil rights act, and later commented that having done so, "We have lost the south for a generation". He was right.

The Confederate flag is offensive not only because it was a "battle flag" of a bunch of slave owning traitors, but because it is associated with lynching, beatings, dogs and fire hoses, and complete social disenfranchisement because of skin color. Finally, I am so fucking sick of southern apologists using the "but there was racism in the north too !!!!!!111!!!!!!" Arguement. Yes, there was. However in the 1960's in the north, black people could vote. Civil rights workers were not getting murdered and buried in levies. A black man was a hell of a lot safer in Harlem than in Montogomery. I am confused as to how anyone can argue about this. "NAACP play book" indeed. Because the NAACP has been so much more violent and racist than the Klan..... :lol:

[starfish]

And one of those rights were slavery. As a person from the South we need to really stop acting like the Civil War wasn't about slavery.

Slavery was a part of the fabric of the nation at the time, still legal in some union states as well as the south. There was some debate whether it would have stopped of its own accord if there had been no federal intervention. Not as quickly, obviously. The advent of the farming machinery around this time rendered slave lavor all but obsolete. But it was the tariffs imposed upon the south by the northern manufacturing states that so angered the southern states and forced secession issues. The southern economy was heavily dependent on the export import business. Also, the south hated Lincoln. I don't pretend that slavery was not an ugly part of our country's past and present. Notice that I said country, and not just the south. If this song, which I don't like and find problematic, encourages a frank dialogue on racial issues, I think it will have actually done some good. I find objectionable northern revisionist history which is all too convenient for ignoring past and present racial problems. When you say the civil war was all about slavery, I respectfully disagree with the accuracy of your statement but I do understand some of the reasons why people believe that to be true.

[starfish]

Oh gross my parents really like Brad Paisley. :(

This song is just flat out embarrassing on so many levels - the LL Cool J parts of it even more so than the Brad Paisley parts. It seems well-meaning, but just SO uneducated around issues of race that it comes off as insultingly simplistic.

Just wondering, why would LLCoolJ sing this song with Brad Paisley? I find the song, as I have said, problematic. Others find it downright offensive and racist. Seriously, why would he sing this song with BP? Can't figure it out. Money I guess.

[starfish]

LBJ did pass the civil rights act, and later commented that having done so, "We have lost the south for a generation". He was right.

He got it done, though, didn't he? Where JFK couldn't.

But then we inflicted George W. Bush on the rest of the nation. Sorry about that one. Wish it had been

Ann Richards.

[badmath]

I just heard about this song this morning on the news, so I looked up the lyrics. The lyrics are dumb, for multiple reasons. But I want to comment on the "red flag"...

I am a southern girl, born and raised. I also LOVE American history. However, I view the confederate flag as a symbol of racism and suppression. It's a DEFEATED battle flag that was used to represent the south trying to secede from the Union, so I would even go so far as to say that it's also an anti-American symbol. Displaying a defeated flag that represents a terrible time in American history is not showing "southern pride"... the only thing it's showing is how much of an ignorant, racist, douchebag you are.

[starfish]

Brad Paisley is about to be on Jay Leno. I'm sure everyone will want to go watch him sing his new song.

[Salamander]

One thing I don't get about people who want to fly the confederate flag without criticism is that they seem to overlap almost entirely with the RAH RAH YOO ESS AY crowd. The confederate flag is the flag of people who wanted to secede from the U.S. over an issue that virtually everyone nowadays agrees is abhorrent (and by that I mean slavery, not the revisionist history approach of it being about the infringement of states' rights). I agree with badmath that it's an anti-American symbol and I have a hard time comprehending why the fervently nationalistic people who fly it don't at least consider the contradiction.

[Sarietty]

It's an orchestrated effort for media exposure and record sales. When is the last time Brad Paisley received this much attention? And LL Cool J is no superstar, either. This is excellent publicity for both of them, especially because of the WTF aspect of hearing that a country singer has collaborated with a rapper. It's like a musical version of a celebrity reality show, and will generate interest in the song from people who would never take notice of the individual artists.

Paisley is expressing a viewpoint that many secretly agree with - that minorities "make too much" of the history of segregation in the U.S., to the extent of taking "needless offense" to expressions that are not meant maliciously. Substitute the word "segregation" with "sexism" or "homophobia," and the song becomes an expression of other cultural currents of our time. Female CEOs like Sheryl Sandberg and Melissa Meyer encourage women in the workplace to focus on fitting into a corporate structure that is not oriented toward people with care taking responsibility, even though technology offers incredible new opportunities for being "present" at work without being seated in an office. The presence of a black president allows us to say that the color of a person's skin is no longer a serious obstacle to success. And gay marriage - something that many religious people see as a homosexual effort to "legitimatize" their relationships by adopting a term that should be limited to heterosexual partnerships - is a major topic of interest. A lot of people will talk about the song because they want to talk about these issues. ETA: Wherever they happen to stand on them.

TL;DR - Slickly marketed nonsense designed to create a controversy.

[whirlygirly]

I am a southern girl, born and raised. I also LOVE American history. However, I view the confederate flag as a symbol of racism and suppression. It's a DEFEATED battle flag that was used to represent the south trying to secede from the Union, so I would even go so far as to say that it's also an anti-American symbol. Displaying a defeated flag that represents a terrible time in American history is not showing "southern pride"... the only thing it's showing is how much of an ignorant, racist, douchebag you are.

Oh, so much THIS.

A while back, I accepted a friend request from someone because we were in an FB group together and had a couple mutual friends, and quickly realized she was an uber-redneck and we had NOTHING in common. One day, she posted a rant about how people were unfriending her because she'd posted a picture of the rebel flag that had been taken at a Civil War museum and if it offended you then by god you needed to learn your history!!! and I was like, "uh, okay?' and went to her page to see the picture in question. It wasn't hard to find since she'd made it her cover photo. It was, indeed, a ragged Confederate battle flag on display in a frame- with her standing in front of it, smiling- and proudly showing off her REBEL FLAG MANICURE. :doh: Yeah, I unfriended her too!