Older Duggars Versus Younger

[luckylassie]

How do you think the younger children's discipline compares with their older siblings? Do you think that Michelle and Jimbob are more lax now then in the past?

[yearning4freedom]

How do you think the younger children's discipline compares with their older siblings? Do you think that Michelle and Jimbob are more lax now then in the past?

Yes much more lax-read lazy. Anyone who has their daughters raise the children they the parents brought into this world are lazy. JB & M checked out long ago.

[auntdoc]

Arent most parents more lax as the years go by? We are only foster parents and I've noticed that things that used to matter don't so much anymore. We really do pick our battles much more now than we used to.

[Antigone]

I've noticed that with families, my mom has 6 siblings, she's smack in the middle and got away with more than her older sisters did, but her younger brothers got away with a lot. The same went for my dad (3 siblings) given he was the middle child and the only male child to boot...he got away with a lot if he wasn't caught that is.

[jaelh]

i'm the eldest of 7 - and there is *no way* i'd have gotten away with what the younger ones got away with.

you figure out what is worth the battle as time goes by - and I think realise that, for the most part, not that many things are worth going to war over.

[autumnchild]

There are only 2 of us and my younger sibling got away with more than I did so it isn't just larger families.

[Patsy]

I'm also in a family where things got more lax over time, but no way near what the Duggars have done. Maybe it's a combination of laziness made possible by making the older kids take over parenting + concern about cameras, but it is a dramatic difference, and it isn't JUST the normal thing that happens in all families.

[Lillian]

I think my family got it wrong. My older brother got away with a TON more than me. To this day, God forbid if I go to my friends place without telling Mum (I'm 19, this is pathetic). Older Brother, however, goes on three day benders without so much as a peep. [/teenage angst]

[mnb357]

I would have gotten away with much more as one of six, but my older siblings were big ole' tattletales...probably trying to even things out. And Lillian, I'm wondering if it's not so much that you're younger, as you are a girl? I had that growing up too. It wasn't that my parents didn't trust me, they didn't trust OTHER people...and, loathe as I am to admit it, we're sort of turning out that way with our daughter.

[ladypuglover]

I agree that parents relax as times goes on. I'm the youngest of 6 and between my oldest sibling and I are 14 years. So I could get away with a lot more because my parents were tired but also in the same breathe I couldn't get away with a whole lot as they knew every trick in the book. Same for my kids only 5 in 12 years. We were stricter with the first 3 but we know every trick in the book.

[deelaem]

Well, they can't whip, uh, I mean train the kids as much because of the cameras. And I'm sure much of the discipline is left up to the older siblings. I think JB & M just don't do much of anything with regards to the kids anymore - unless there's a profit to be had.

[daharyn]

Agreed, deelaem. Remember Jessa putting down some of the littles for their naps a few episodes back? She was tough as nails. I don't think the younger Duggars "get away" with much. I do think they have more resources available to them--nicer/more toys & clothes, bigger house, possibly more food--but I think that's true for the younger members of many families (heck, it is certainly true for my younger sibs), because young parents generally have to "make do" in one way or another.

[forever ago]

I think my family got it wrong. My older brother got away with a TON more than me. To this day, God forbid if I go to my friends place without telling Mum (I'm 19, this is pathetic). Older Brother, however, goes on three day benders without so much as a peep. [/teenage angst]

That's not teenage angst, that's utter bullshit. How much older is your brother?

[CynicMom]

"It's not you we don't trust, it the other people"

I'm sorry but that line is utter bullshit. What you are really saying is that you don't think your daughter is capable of handling herself. Other people (read: boys) can handle themselves, but she can't. Because she's a girl. She's less capable.

How about this? Do you worry your daughter is more at risk of rape or assault? Buy her some mace and set her up with some self-defense classes. Do you worry that she'll be groped? Teach her how to bend a guys fingers the wrong way. Teach her to square her shoulders and look would-be aggressors in the eye. But for God's Sake don't teach her to fear nameless danger.

Name the danger. Then conquer it.

[ADoyle90815]

There are only 2 of us and my younger sibling got away with more than I did so it isn't just larger families.

That was true for me as well, as it was just me and my younger brother.

[mythoughtis]

The younger kids get away with more... and will continue to do so. Once the older girls finally flee the nest, Jim Bob and Michelle will have to step in. Jpu Anna won't be able to discipline them all herself. This time around Jim Bob and Michelle will be older, tired, too busy being filmed, giving interviews, traveling to be concerned with discipline. One day they will come home to a trashed house and squad cars in their driveway. Party central

[MamaJunebug]

The younger kids get away with more... and will continue to do so. Once the older girls finally flee the nest, Jim Bob and Michelle will have to step in. Jpu Anna won't be able to discipline them all herself. This time around Jim Bob and Michelle will be older, tired, too busy being filmed, giving interviews, traveling to be concerned with discipline. One day they will come home to a trashed house and squad cars in their driveway. Party central

Probably just a few of you remember the singer/actor Bing Crosby, or hearing about him. He died in like the 1970s, so that's understandable.

Anyhoo, Bing was married twice. His first wife died of suicide, IIRC, and left him with 3 sons. Those kids were all born in the 1940s and were raised in an extremely strict atmosphere. Also IIRC, all had drug/alcohol addiction and one died young, possibly by his own hand.

Bing married a much-younger woman some time in the late 1950s or 60s and they had three or four kids, too. One of the girls had a reasonably important role on the original "Dallas," I think was born around 1962.

OK, so here's my point. I watchd an in-depth interview with one of the older sons who had achieved sobriety. He talked about how negatively impressed he was to visit his dad's house and see his half-siblings running around wild and really enjoying life and being children -- after his own childhood had been severely supervised and hyper-controlled.

He said something like this, "So I look at my dad, and I say, 'Boy, things are different now from when I was this age' and my dad just goes [he imitates a helpless, unconcerned shrug]."

I felt so bad for that guy, and for his brothers. Yeah, they never went to bed hungry and they had the material best of everything, but his dad (RIP Bing) was a .... well, he certainly didn't seem to think very much about how he was raising his kids. Either family. The first one, "military precision, extreme discipline." The second, "[shrug]."

When I saw the title of this topic, Bing's families were the first thing I thought of, and I think the comparisons are going to be many, with the Duggars' "families."

[Guest Anonymous]

Probably just a few of you remember the singer/actor Bing Crosby, or hearing about him. He died in like the 1970s, so that's understandable.

Anyhoo, Bing was married twice. His first wife died of suicide, IIRC, and left him with 3 sons. Those kids were all born in the 1940s and were raised in an extremely strict atmosphere. Also IIRC, all had drug/alcohol addiction and one died young, possibly by his own hand.

Bing married a much-younger woman some time in the late 1950s or 60s and they had three or four kids, too. One of the girls had a reasonably important role on the original "Dallas," I think was born around 1962.

OK, so here's my point. I watchd an in-depth interview with one of the older sons who had achieved sobriety. He talked about how negatively impressed he was to visit his dad's house and see his half-siblings running around wild and really enjoying life and being children -- after his own childhood had been severely supervised and hyper-controlled.

He said something like this, "So I look at my dad, and I say, 'Boy, things are different now from when I was this age' and my dad just goes [he imitates a helpless, unconcerned shrug]."

I felt so bad for that guy, and for his brothers. Yeah, they never went to bed hungry and they had the material best of everything, but his dad (RIP Bing) was a .... well, he certainly didn't seem to think very much about how he was raising his kids. Either family. The first one, "military precision, extreme discipline." The second, "[shrug]."

When I saw the title of this topic, Bing's families were the first thing I thought of, and I think the comparisons are going to be many, with the Duggars' "families."

The Crosby brother that was interviewed was probably Gary, who has been the most outspoken about his upbringing. Bing Crosby was not only very strict but used to constantly belittle his sons, even with colleagues and castmates present. He was also a believer in corporal punishment.

I've always thought that he was more lenient with the second family because he had recognized, in the meantime, that his way had failed. Then again, maybe the second wife had heard stories, or he admitted his failings himself and she made it clear that she wouldn't tolerate any breakage of her children's spirits.

To give Bing Crosby credit, he never prevented either crop of children from getting educations, or working in their choice of profession. And he didn't force his daughters into early marriages and parenthood.

[raineymott]

My family/mom was weird. The younger ones practically got away with murder, while at the same time, my mom was more likely to punish me for a "bad attitude" or really stupid things. Even though I was in my 20's and the little ones were under 10...she would more readily spank me than them.

[Eponine]

I am the youngest of three and only girl and I could definitely get away with a lot more on a personal family level than my older brothers - I was hardly ever punished and could get out of almost anything. But at the same time they were always far more strict about where I could go, with whom, and when, than with my brothers. I once confronted my father about this (I wanted to stay out later at my high school boyfriend's house than they wanted, whereas when my middle brother was in high school he could stay at his girlfriend's house until whenever he felt like coming home) and he openly admitted "it's different with girls!" O rly? You're basically telling me I am incapable of being okay while out late at night because I have lady parts? If you don't think I can handle myself why don't you give me the resources to do so, or to defend myself?

Well, I traveled all over Europe and Turkey by myself when I was 20 and proved I am far more capable of taking care of myself than my brothers would be in such a situation. I can only hope my parents don't treat their granddaughters as less capable human beings than their grandsons just because they're female. I think it's utter BS.

[alysee]

I think my family got it wrong. My older brother got away with a TON more than me. To this day, God forbid if I go to my friends place without telling Mum (I'm 19, this is pathetic). Older Brother, however, goes on three day benders without so much as a peep. [/teenage angst]

My mom explained to me recently why she was much more strict with my sister and I. It was simple. I could bring home a problem(IE. A baby) and technically my brother couldn't. Also, she mentioned the fact that men don't normally get raped and killed. Women do.

It makes sense to me now but I was living on my own and would come home for the summers when I was 19-20 and I would have to tell my parents where I was going and when I was going to be back.

[MamaJunebug]

Point taken about Bing,SnarkyJan, and I guess my point was that Gary & his sins deserved acknowledgment from his dad that their upbringing had been ... Could've used improvement, say?

I do stand by my thought that Bing (and IMHO the Duggars) lived the unexamined life as far as parenting. Take a moment to reflect on how your actions and attitudes are affecting your children's unformed, helpless, adoring-their-parents child mind. If that makes any sense -- it's already effectively 90F here...

[bananacat]

I have often wondered if the buddies are allowed to hit their charges. Even if they are allowed to, would Jill really spank her little brother? I also think the howler monkeys get away with a lot more because they're boys and they just have lower standards for boys and don't believe they can actually behave.

[Letgo]

I think most parents ease up as the years go by, especially if there is a large age span among the children. People learn as they go and if I had it to do all over again, knowing what I do now, I would change how I parented. I would definitely lighten up in some areas and emphasize other areas more than I did.

For the Duggars there will be a difference in older vs younger children, simply because of the situation and logistics for each group. Of necessity, the four older girls have had much greater responsibilities than the four youngest girls will have. The Duggar family could not function without the older girls, John, and Joseph doing so much work. (I think John and Joseph do a great deal for Jim Bob that we don't see. Both are very mechanical and seem to have a strong work ethic, although not involved in as much child rearing and household running as the girls.) Michelle could not cook, clean, raise umpteen children, homeschool, do laundry, grocery shop, and so on, by herself.

Johannah on down will not have to raise younger siblings. Even if Michelle does have another child, or even several more, the older ones will be married and out of the house. Food preparation, house cleaning, laundry, and so on, will all be lighter burdens for the younger children because there won't be as many in the family then. The younger children will not be required to work as hard or as long as their older sisters. And if Jim Bob decides that the right guy has never appeared for one or more of the older girls, then she or they will still be doing all the work.

Michelle and Jim Bob will also be older and more tired by the time the four little girls are teens, and I kind of think they won't have as much control over them as they have now over the older kids. Getting the Howlers through their teens and out into their courtships and marriages will have worn them down!

The younger kids have been exposed to more of the world because of the show and the family trips. If anyone leaves Gothard and ATI, I think it will be a younger child. They will grow up knowing more of the world and will see that more possibilities exist beyond Bill Gothard's world. They may also see their older siblings struggle financially because they have large families and no TV show-and want to avoid that. A big plus for the younger children is that they will have older siblings as support if they do leave. I cannot imagine Jill shunning Jenny fifteen years from now if Jenny bolts.

[bananacat]

My mom explained to me recently why she was much more strict with my sister and I. It was simple. I could bring home a problem(IE. A baby) and technically my brother couldn't. Also, she mentioned the fact that men don't normally get raped and killed. Women do.

It makes sense to me now but I was living on my own and would come home for the summers when I was 19-20 and I would have to tell my parents where I was going and when I was going to be back.

But it doesn't make sense. They should be just as worried about making sure their son doesn't hurt women as they are about other not hurting their daughters. If people saw their sons raping as as big a problem as others raping their daughters, then the world would be a safer place.