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Forum Thread For Arranged Marriage


debrand

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After reading Ypestis thread on fundie marriages, I decided to see if I could find a Christian blog about arranged marriage. I found a forum thread on Christian Parenting and thought some of you would like to read through it. Because I didn't want to hijack the other thread, I decided this should get its own thread.

One thing that struck me was that some of the posters had the checklist mentality that we discussed in the other thread.

Some of the posters are against it. My own view is that if the couple has seen the world, had a chance to date other people and decide on an arranged marriage, it might work.

From Ella

So, Ummm...touchy subject.

At my church, there are two young people, a boy (22) and a girl (20), the boy and girl both just finished college (Boy with Bachelor, girl with Associates). The girl went to a local community college and the boy just got back from his University in another state. The boy and girl grew up together but don't really know each other that well, and haven't seen eachother at all over the past four years...

Their parents decided, however, that they should be married and set a wedding date for the end of June. The kids agreed out of obedience (I think). So, end of story, these children, who barely know eachother, are engaged and will be married later this month.

I've got mixed feelings on this subject. Both kids are intelligent (my daughter looks up to the girl, Rose.) and they're both good Christians. They'll probably have a successful, Christian marriage. But...they're soooo young! And they don't know eachother at all. My daughter asked me what I thought about this and I told her my mixed feelings on it. She said she kind of liked the idea...I don't know WHAT to think of my daughter liking the idea.

What's everyone else think?

christianparentsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5399

Chickpea

Sounds odd I suppose, but I personally love the idea of arranged marriage. If all parties are happy with the arrangement, I guess you can just pray that God blesses their marriage as you would any young couple.

I was also married at 20, so I might be biased in my opinion though

cheeriokeeper

i

am not fond of arranged marriages by parents. however, God "arranges" marriages doesn't He?

so i suppose if God didn't want this marriage, He would not allow it to happen.

and furthermore, i don't think their age has anything to do with it.

i know many couples who married young and are still together.

How does she explain abusive spouses?

Faith2go

I do not see any problems with this if the couple is in favor. You mentioned that they were doing this possibly out of obedience alone, but we are not privy to all emotions, reasons, etc. involved. Perhaps the young man is very happy to have a wife, and hopefully they have considered this only after much prayer and counsel. As they are both strong Christians I do also agree with Ella in the likelihood of a good marriage.

I, myself, married a man that I hardly knew and with whom I was not "in love". However, I had observed his character for quite awhile and basically trusted, for various reasons (my parents desire only being one reason) that this was the man Yahweh had for me. Although we have only been married for 22 years, I can unequivocally say that marrying my husband has been the best decision I have ever made-other than becoming a Believer- and I cannot imagine ever being without him.

Jnaly

The attraction and feelings and sparks are not what make a marriage work or not work. A marriage works based on how unselfish each party is willing to be. If a man and woman are committed to make each other happy, put the other person's desires above their own, communicate, work through disagreements, and choose to love each other even when all those sparks and feelings fade, or even if they never were there, the marriage will be successful and happy. If those things are not present and if each person is living selfishly, it doesn't matter how many sparks there are and how attracted to each other they are, the marriage will not be successful or happy.

I am of the opinion that arranged marriages are fine and can be happy and successful if both parties are living for Jesus. I also think they can fail miserably if both parties refuse to depend on Jesus. I think that if the parents are also seeking God's will, there's no reason to think they wouldn't choose a suitable mate for their children.

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chickpea

I think commitment to God and unselfishness are most important. Sparks and attraction can/will wear off like that, and sparks and attraction can cloud your vision when it comes to judging character.

I believe that Godly parents who know their child well have a better chance of making a good match than a fluffy-headed young adult (I say, as a former fluffy-headed young adult ).

I had sparks and attraction to my husband when we were dating, but in truth, neither of us would have made exemplary spouses until God got a hold of us. The main thing I had when dating was a surety and peace from God that Stephen was the right one- and that has been confirmed over and over again to us.

from same poster

Yes, but the modern view of marriage as a coupling intended for the purpose of bringing happiness to each party is a really worldly idea. God instituted marriage for the raising of godly seed. If two committed Christians intent on seeking God and honoring Him and raising up Godly children for His glory (or otherwise seeking His will with their lives, knowing that God does not choose to bless every couple with children) they will be blessed.

christianparentsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5399

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A had a muslim friend in college who had approached her parents a few year before and told them that she was ready for them to find her a husband. She was a beautiful, intelligent, funny girl, who had gone to public school and generally lived a very normal life (the only exception being that she'd never dated or participated in parties where alcohol was involved).

She just really believed in this tradition and that her parents knew her better then anyone, was she shocked!

Her parents presented her with one man after another with whom she had NOTHING in common.

It made her question everything she believed in and she was truly sad to discover how little her parents really knew her.

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I know one very happily married Muslim couple with an arranged marriage -- only when they explained to me how it worked, it sounded more like the parents simply play matchmaker, and the couple has ultimate veto power. That seems totally fine to me.

I do agree that common values are a lot more important than chemistry -- this is from my experience of getting hurt by guys I was really attracted to and then forcing myself give my now-husband (who I thought was attractive but I wasn't super into initially) a chance (something I wouldn't have done when I was younger). I ended up falling in love with him because he just treated me so damned well! And we are very similar to one another in terms of having high standards of reliability toward friends and family. Doesn't sound very romantic, but for us it makes for a very happy, loving, compatible marriage.

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A had a muslim friend in college who had approached her parents a few year before and told them that she was ready for them to find her a husband. She was a beautiful, intelligent, funny girl, who had gone to public school and generally lived a very normal life (the only exception being that she'd never dated or participated in parties where alcohol was involved).

She just really believed in this tradition and that her parents knew her better then anyone, was she shocked!

Her parents presented her with one man after another with whom she had NOTHING in common.

It made her question everything she believed in and she was truly sad to discover how little her parents really knew her.

My parents are not about arranged marriage at all, but they are Jewish and really wanted me to find a Jewish husband. So, they did set me up on some dates with "nice young Jewish-Russian men" in my early 20s (and now I have been living for 5 years with a German 17 years older than me and am the happiest I've ever been! 8-) ) I remember being on a date with one particularly smug annoying dude and thinking, "Jeez, my family doesn't know me at all!" In fairness, I don't think it's so much that they didn't know me as they wanted to believe they knew what was better for me. And perhaps more importantly, they wanted to have some input into the sort of in-laws they would get and how the family would change. So, they chose guys who fit a profile, and among those there were none that I clicked with at all. I know they ideally wanted a Jewish immigrant couple like themselves. Hell, ideally that would have been nice too - to end up with someone whose parents could be friends with mine and whose culture I shared. (Again, instead of a nice 60-something Jewish couple, they have an 80-y/o curmudgeonly German lady.) So I can understand where they were coming from, and it was probably similar but to a far greater degree with your friend. In my case, the Jewish hangup was about culture, not religion, which ups the ante a LOT.

(I just think it's hard enough to find someone you click with. That's enough. I never could have met the right person if I screened for things like culture, nationality, and ethnicity. And age, for that matter. I collected many pieces of people's minds when I moved in with a 41-y/o divorced guy with a kid at 24. And yet, here we are.)

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I'm in a study group with Stan Tatkin, a well-known couple therapist. He talks about how a problem with modern marriages is that the family and community is no longer as involved in the vetting process of the potential spouse. Although I don't know what he thinks of arranged marriages, and we haven't discussed that, he feels strongly that our loved ones, whether friends or family, should help with vetting by getting to know the person.

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They'll probably have a successful, Christian marriage.

Considering a successful, Christian seems to have very little to do with love, compatibility, shared interests, comfort level or even passing acquaintance, and EVERYTHING to do with a wife shutting up, doing as she's told, pumping out babies, saying yes to sex regardless of circumstances, agreeing with everything her husband says, accepting blame for every. fucking. thing and never voicing an opinion, want or need of her own, then I'd say that by fundie standards many of these godly Christian marriages, arranged or otherwise, probably ARE roaring successes. These girls are well indoctrinated to accept whatever they end up. Sadly.

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I'm in a study group with Stan Tatkin, a well-known couple therapist. He talks about how a problem with modern marriages is that the family and community is no longer as involved in the vetting process of the potential spouse. Although I don't know what he thinks of arranged marriages, and we haven't discussed that, he feels strongly that our loved ones, whether friends or family, should help with vetting by getting to know the person.

The only real reason I would see this as important is to maybe avoid in-law type conflict. Otherwise I tend to think why would my family be involved in "vetting" a potential spouse for me. Sure, I like them to get along, but if I have a healthy, happy and fulfilling relationship with my potential partner and a family member does not like them for whatever reason, I am going to trust myself more than that family member.

Honestly, any two mature, responsible, self-aware and emotionally healthy adults should be perfectly able to make appropriate choices for themselves without family involvement, and be able to establish healthy boundaries for the extended family too. No problem with this modern marriage, we are equals, very happy, very loving, very honest and authentic, very connected, and so on.

While my family does like my husband very much (and his like me and so on), honestly we never "vetted" each other through them. Our families are NOT the ones intimately involved in our relationship and we live a minimum 5-6 hour drive from the nearest of them anyway. I did not even meet most of his family until at or after our wedding since we lived nowhere near them at the time. He never met parts of my family until after we were married either, including my father for example who I am not incredibly close to but we do have a relationship that works for us. We have NEVER had any in-law or family issues in our time together.

Obviously if your entire (or most of them) family has an issue with your partner, and assuming they are not dysfunctional themselves, there MAY be something for you to consider there but I am not sure most families I have seen (many of which have plenty of dysfunction) are in any better place to vet a spouse for someone else than they are for themselves. Similarly with friends. Personally I do think some harmony with friends is important, and on our end we have no issues with our friendships or getting along with each others friends, and if ALL the friends seemed to raise issues or concerns that would be something worth considering. But that is not to say that all friends necessarily know what is best for themselves, never mind another.

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This probably won't be a popular opinion (not that I care ;) ) but I am vehemently opposed to arranged marriage. As far as I'm concerned, if you aren't capable of selecting a spouse then you have no business being married. I detest the idea of an adult relinquishing their decision making powers to mommy and daddy. It's totally inappropriate and violates a multitude of boundaries. If you don't know yourself well enough to decide who would make a good life mate, then you need to spend time getting to know yourself instead of getting married.

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This probably won't be a popular opinion (not that I care ;) ) but I am vehemently opposed to arranged marriage. As far as I'm concerned, if you aren't capable of selecting a spouse then you have no business being married. I detest the idea of an adult relinquishing their decision making powers to mommy and daddy. It's totally inappropriate and violates a multitude of boundaries. If you don't know yourself well enough to decide who would make a good life mate, then you need to spend time getting to know yourself instead of getting married.

The stories I've read from Indian marriages always sound more like arranged dating than arranged marriage. The couples are usually well educated, have traveled and dated before. The parent sets them up with someone and the couple decides if they will marry that person. It might not be so cut and dried in real life. Plus, the difference between an arranged marriage between a couple who is well off and another couple who is very poor is probably very different.

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The stories I've read from Indian marriages always sound more like arranged dating than arranged marriage. The couples are usually well educated, have traveled and dated before. The parent sets them up with someone and the couple decides if they will marry that person. It might not be so cut and dried in real life. Plus, the difference between an arranged marriage between a couple who is well off and another couple who is very poor is probably very different.

Really it doesn't matter to me whether they're well off or poor. The parental involvement in what should be a very personal decision made by a capable adult is my problem.

I am a big boundaries person, and nothing irritates me worse that an infantilized adult (which is how this strikes me). If I racked my brain I couldn't think of a single thing that would necessitate ones parents choosing their spouse.

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The stories I've read from Indian marriages always sound more like arranged dating than arranged marriage. The couples are usually well educated, have traveled and dated before. The parent sets them up with someone and the couple decides if they will marry that person. It might not be so cut and dried in real life. Plus, the difference between an arranged marriage between a couple who is well off and another couple who is very poor is probably very different.

Maybe.... I knew a woman from India. Married to a physician, who was also her uncle. Not sure she had any real choice in the matter.

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chickpea

from same poster

christianparentsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5399

Two things. I have been married for over 30 years and my sparks and attraction hasn't worn off so far--and I'd say it gets you through tough times better than many other things. Secondly, this last paragraph indicates that if both people aren't happy and feeling blessed, it is clearly because one of them is not honoring God right... and we know it is either the woman OR the woman is not helping the man enough.

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We in the west often confuse arranged marriages with forced marriages. They are very different animals. In China, most singles expect their older family members and close friends to vet and introduce them to potential spouses.

One 26 year old cousin, ready to get serious about marriage, confided in me she'll probably have a "serious boyfriend" by next we meet because she's told her mother to start looking! She was confident that her mother will find someone appropriate for her. In fact, my relatives were surprised that I found my husband at work. My mom bragged that she didn't have to put any work into finding me a good husband and everyone was appropriately jealous. :lol: To Chinese people, finding a good spouse for their child is just another parental responsibility, like paying for college or hiring tutors.

Each of my cousins married someone introduced through family and friends. The idea is that having an aunt introduce you to someone, you know the aunt have vetted the person, have poked around the person's financial prospects, education, family situation, height/weight etc. This way, everyone you date is a good match "on paper" and you don't have to worry about figuring out if their father is bankrupt or they have unsteady employment etc. It's like going on match.com, only with your family as the filter.

I don't see anything wrong with arrange relationships as long as the couple gets final say. In many cultures, dating is nonexistent and meeting strangers for drinks is looked down upon or dangerous. I say whatever works is fine by me. The hardest part about finding a spouse is the selection pool. We in the US try to increase it by joining a church, going to school, going to a bar. In other cultures, it's to do a siren call to all family members and friends. Whatever works, I say.

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I know two couples whose marriages were arranged, and they're really happy, well-suited couples. But they definitely had veto power if, after being introduced, they didn't suit each other.

One couple is from a small Buddhist nation where both of their families were involved at a high level in national politics; they each went to universities overseas (in different countries) and earned graduate degrees. Each, I think, wanted to marry someone from their homeland, and the families knew each other socially and the rest is history. They got married at 27 and 28, I think.

Another couple is from a smallish Orthodox Jewish tradition, and both the man and the woman's fathers are distinguished rabbis within that tradition, so it was seen as a bit of a dynastic marriage. He is a professor, though, and she is or has been a medical researcher (I know they have several kids, so parenting may be her only work currently). They were I think 25 and 26.

It works for them. Wouldn't work for me. In both of these cases, though, the couple is really well-matched.

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The stories I've read from Indian marriages always sound more like arranged dating than arranged marriage. The couples are usually well educated, have traveled and dated before. The parent sets them up with someone and the couple decides if they will marry that person. It might not be so cut and dried in real life. Plus, the difference between an arranged marriage between a couple who is well off and another couple who is very poor is probably very different.

So the parents work in this case sounds very similar of one of those agencys or web pages for finding a mate, its very different from the idea of arranged marriage that i have: the parents choosing the person without asking the son or daughter their opinion.

I personally only know one case of arranged marriage, and was between my great-grandparents(their families were related, and in that time was a normal thing to do) it worked for them, they have a happy marriage, so i cant be totally against it. But i think in their case the two of them agree with their parents decision, if they were forced i dont think that it will be a success.

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I don't have a problem with arranged marriages if both parties are into it and they have veto power. Like another poster said, it's the forced marriages that I have a problem with.

I think commitment to God and unselfishness are most important. Sparks and attraction can/will wear off like that, and sparks and attraction can cloud your vision when it comes to judging character.

I believe that Godly parents who know their child well have a better chance of making a good match than a fluffy-headed young adult (I say, as a former fluffy-headed young adult ).

I had sparks and attraction to my husband when we were dating, but in truth, neither of us would have made exemplary spouses until God got a hold of us. The main thing I had when dating was a surety and peace from God that Stephen was the right one- and that has been confirmed over and over again to us.

Did God get a hold of these two people or did they figure out what worked for them? Although, she is right about sparks and attraction can cloud vision, but if one doesn't jump into marriage quickly - it might work itself out.

What no one wants to say is marriage is a gamble. We marry/become partners with people on the trust that they will be good, decent folk - and sometimes we find out we're lied to. I think it's perfectly acceptable to leave a relationship if one is lied to in regards to the other person's personality.

ETA: I just read that I'm "holding out for hand sex" - I think I'm going to save myself for hand sex - I'm already married - so maybe I should wait for a specific anniversary? Do I get a purity ring if I wait for hand sex?

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One of my friends had an arranged marriage 2 years ago. She & her husband are both from well off Punjabi families & have postgrad degrees from Australian universities. She wasn't forced into it & whilst she didn't meet her husband until their wedding day (which she could have backed out of), they exchanged letters & talked on the phone for I think about 6 months beforehand. They are really happy & her husband doesn't control her, he just buys her gold, a convertible & takes her on long holidays. :lol:

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I don't see anything wrong with arrange relationships as long as the couple gets final say. In many cultures, dating is nonexistent and meeting strangers for drinks is looked down upon or dangerous. I say whatever works is fine by me. The hardest part about finding a spouse is the selection pool. We in the US try to increase it by joining a church, going to school, going to a bar. In other cultures, it's to do a siren call to all family members and friends. Whatever works, I say.

Exactly, I would much rather have my parents try to find me a spouse than to have to pay some website with a computer algorithm. With my parents vetting a guy I have a reasonable expectation that we'll have similar interests, possibly similar backgrounds, and he's most likely not a serial killer; I don't think I automatically have that with online dating.

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My Aunts husband arranged his sisters marriage, they are pacific islander, and I'm not sure if it's a cultural thing or he just felt that at 22 she should be married already.

She met the man twice before their (lavish) wedding. And they were allowed time alone to talk with each other etc.

The worst part was that she confided in my Aunt just hours before the wedding that she was jealous of all the wedding guests, because "after the wedding all of you will be enjoying a wonderful night of beautiful food and dancing, and I'll be in a hotel room with him"

They have been married now for 15 years, but have no children, she now cares for her elderly parents who have moved in with them.

I feel really sad for her.

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I agree that people confuse arranged marriage with forced marriage, and people tend to forget that marriage "for love" has only existed about 150 years, and marriage as a business arrangement for much longer. You used to have your parents and relatives vet your future spouse not because they were infantilizing you or didn't understand boundaries, but because the reasons for marriage were a lot more cut and dry. You got married to ensure your financial future and to have a family. Period. The end. That's why it was so important to look at a spouse's finances, their family finance's, and their family dynamics. You knew the potential grooms father was carrying a lot of debt? Steer clear, or it was going to become your problem. The potential daughter-in-law likes to drink a little too much? The same. You wanted a reasonably compatible person who shared your values and would not lower your standard of living. You would love them by sharing a life and its hardships together.

That said, I think some people romanticize arrange marriages in other cultures. These are often business mergers and ways to concentrate wealth among families. You go in with different expectations than someone who marries for "romance". We can say that there is nothing forced about them, and that is technically true in most cases. However, a lot of cultural and parental approval comes with choosing arranged marriage. Your parents aren't going to set you out of the house, but there can be a lot of subtle pressure that adds up. You may be a doctor and hubby an engineer, but you are both still want your parent's approval.

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My parents are not about arranged marriage at all, but they are Jewish and really wanted me to find a Jewish husband. So, they did set me up on some dates with "nice young Jewish-Russian men" in my early 20s (and now I have been living for 5 years with a German 17 years older than me and am the happiest I've ever been! 8-) ) I remember being on a date with one particularly smug annoying dude and thinking, "Jeez, my family doesn't know me at all!" In fairness, I don't think it's so much that they didn't know me as they wanted to believe they knew what was better for me. And perhaps more importantly, they wanted to have some input into the sort of in-laws they would get and how the family would change. So, they chose guys who fit a profile, and among those there were none that I clicked with at all. I know they ideally wanted a Jewish immigrant couple like themselves. Hell, ideally that would have been nice too - to end up with someone whose parents could be friends with mine and whose culture I shared. (Again, instead of a nice 60-something Jewish couple, they have an 80-y/o curmudgeonly German lady.) So I can understand where they were coming from, and it was probably similar but to a far greater degree with your friend. In my case, the Jewish hangup was about culture, not religion, which ups the ante a LOT.

(I just think it's hard enough to find someone you click with. That's enough. I never could have met the right person if I screened for things like culture, nationality, and ethnicity. And age, for that matter. I collected many pieces of people's minds when I moved in with a 41-y/o divorced guy with a kid at 24. And yet, here we are.)

Parents getting involved is so not arranged marriage. It's universal. My parents tried to set me up with their plumber. Talk about embarrassing :oops:

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This probably won't be a popular opinion (not that I care ;) ) but I am vehemently opposed to arranged marriage. As far as I'm concerned, if you aren't capable of selecting a spouse then you have no business being married. I detest the idea of an adult relinquishing their decision making powers to mommy and daddy. It's totally inappropriate and violates a multitude of boundaries. If you don't know yourself well enough to decide who would make a good life mate, then you need to spend time getting to know yourself instead of getting married.

Ugh. I loathe a "deranged marriage". Don't care if it's Jesus, Buddah or Allah's will.

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Ugh. I loathe a "deranged marriage". Don't care if it's Jesus, Buddah or Allah's will.

In most places in the world where arranged marriage is still practiced, they don't try and sell it as Jesus, Allah or Buddha's will. It is a life contract and compatible education, religious, and social values are important indicators as to whether individuals will be able to make a successful go at it.

This business of US fundies and "courtship" or "waiting for God's best" or whatever they currently brand it as, is neither here nor there when it comes to either arranged marriages or marriages where people chose each other with no family involvement. For cultures that have practiced arranged marriages for centuries and not mellenium, God's will is not a selling point for a future spouse. You aren't expected to have romantic feelings for your marriage partner as soon as the vows are said. Most cultures give the prespective partners veto power. Your father doesn't come home and say "God laid it on my heart......" Your parents plug into their social networks and do just that, start networking. They are concerned with your character (hard working, honest, etc) level of education, and your bank balance. Your prayer life isn't even on the table as most of these networks occur within the same religious tradition. You can pray five times a day or go to Bible study every week, but if you don't have financial stability and earning potential as a person, you aren't getting married.

The Josh Duggars and Bates kids of the world would be laughed out of a possible bride's parental home. No way you are going to get the bride if you don't bring some serious stability to the table.

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Parents getting involved is so not arranged marriage. It's universal. My parents tried to set me up with their plumber. Talk about embarrassing :oops:

:lol: My grandma wanted to set me up with my priest (Anglican, so they're allowed to marry). 1. Not in a million years and 2. he's gay anyway! Not that grandma knows that....

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