For Newbies.Mark Driscoll's Visions

[debrand]

For those who don't know who he is, Mark Driscoll is the pastor of a popular Calvinist Church called Mars Hill.

He claims that god sends him prophetic visions of the future. Also, sometimes god will send him a mental film about the sins of particular individuals. Sort of like mental porn.

My opinion is that Mark is a liar who wants to have power over his followers. Telling people that he knows their secrets is a way to control them. It is more proof that Mars Hill is a cult. If you watch the video, Mark doesn't start speaking until nearly a minute into the short two minute clip.

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[constantgardener]

Good grief, I thought he was supposed to be some kind of charismatic cool young preacher. Seems more like one of those mumbling nutcases you would cross the road to avoid. Do people actually believe this stuff? (Unfortunately I guess the answer is 'yes').

[debrand]

Good grief, I thought he was supposed to be some kind of charismatic cool young preacher. Seems more like one of those mumbling nutcases you would cross the road to avoid. Do people actually believe this stuff? (Unfortunately I guess the answer is 'yes').

I admit, I don't understand Driscol's appeal. He seems like a middle aged man desperate to be though of as cool and macho. Watch some of his sermons on youtube. He comes across as an arrogant, immature person. Honestly, he doesn't sound like an adult. He sounds like someone desperate to be thought of as relevant. I don't get why his followers don't see through him.

[CrazyCatLady]

my sister LOVES Mars Hill. Thankfully, she no longer goes there as she moved to an area that does not have a MH affiliate. My parents and I simply cannot understand how she can even STAND Driscol or is anti-woman retching. I guess it serves as a reminder to me that even smart people fall into these crazy "churches." Not so surprisingly, lots of stories are coming to light of abuses and creepy shit going on at MH, just do a quick google search!

[Kaylee]

Driscoll is just strange all around. A lot of old-school Calvinists, usually those who have been Calvinist since before the New Calvinism trend, have expressed a lot of concerns over him and some of the stuff he says, does, and teaches. I found him online before he became really well-known and he seemed sort of cool but immature and brash, then the more I listened to or read what he had to say the more problems I found.

I know a lot of people who are crazy about the guy though, including my pastor and a lot of people in my church. There seems to be the whole cluster of celebrity pastors that some people are following and supporting now, even though what many of these guys teach is not in line with the doctrine their followers espouse. Around here, it's Mark Driscoll, Steven Furtick, & Perry Noble and ,to a lesser extent an mostly because the first 3 have praised them, Craig Groeschel, John Piper, TD Jakes, & Ed Young. The disturbing part is I think sometimes I come out looking like Teri Maxwell because I'm not totally on board with what the "hip new preacher crowd" is doing.

[AmyP]

Driscoll is just strange all around. A lot of old-school Calvinists, usually those who have been Calvinist since before the New Calvinism trend, have expressed a lot of concerns over him and some of the stuff he says, does, and teaches. I found him online before he became really well-known and he seemed sort of cool but immature and brash, then the more I listened to or read what he had to say the more problems I found.

I know a lot of people who are crazy about the guy though, including my pastor and a lot of people in my church. There seems to be the whole cluster of celebrity pastors that some people are following and supporting now, even though what many of these guys teach is not in line with the doctrine their followers espouse. Around here, it's Mark Driscoll, Steven Furtick, & Perry Noble and ,to a lesser extent an mostly because the first 3 have praised them, Craig Groeschel, John Piper, TD Jakes, & Ed Young. The disturbing part is I think sometimes I come out looking like Teri Maxwell because I'm not totally on board with what the "hip new preacher crowd" is doing.

I wonder if many "new calvinists" are actually disillusioned charismatics. Because I can't imagine anything less "calvinist" than having visions of someone elses sins and HEY- they sure were kinky!!!! Calvinist doctrine doesn't allow alot of room for extra-biblical insights being given to individuals. Insight is supposed to come strictly from the bible.

[Childless]

This guy makes me glad I left religion behind. What a nut case!

[AmyP]

Hey! We came for the doctrine- but we stayed for the kinky visions!! Ba-da bing!

[Kaylee]

I wonder if many "new calvinists" are actually disillusioned charismatics. Because I can't imagine anything less "calvinist" than having visions of someone elses sins and HEY- they sure were kinky!!!! Calvinist doctrine doesn't allow alot of room for extra-biblical insights being given to individuals. Insight is supposed to come strictly from the bible.

Right, this is one of my big problems with Driscoll & with CJ Mahaney - you don't get to claim Sola Scriptura and then talk about having visions, hearing God speak to you, and other super special personal revelation. I grew up in a family that vacillated between IFB & Pentecostal churches and have major misgivings about the charismatic type revelation because of how it can be used to manipulate people. I got into a pretty heated argument with a couple of the pastors at my church over calling themselves Calvinist in relation to what they actually believed & practiced. Then again, I should have listened to that really nagging voice about some of the people they admired and the pastor's refusal to come up with an actual statement of doctrine and/or beliefs from the start.

I really do think a lot of the new Calvinism thing is a trend, like the Emergent church was a few years ago. Oddly enough, when I first heard of Driscoll, he was considered Emergent, but he's done his best to distance himself from that these days. What bothers me is it is bringing a lot of changes and some scary stuff into more mainstream Calvinism and it seems like both camps are taking the worse parts from eachother. It's telling to me that they are all about hardcore complementarianism and other teaching that solidify a certain power structure but very light on sanctification, regulative worship, and other things that might call some of their lifestyles and attention-grabbing ploys into question.

[AmyP]

Right, this is one of my big problems with Driscoll & with CJ Mahaney - you don't get to claim Sola Scriptura and then talk about having visions, hearing God speak to you, and other super special personal revelation. I grew up in a family that vacillated between IFB & Pentecostal churches and have major misgivings about the charismatic type revelation because of how it can be used to manipulate people. I got into a pretty heated argument with a couple of the pastors at my church over calling themselves Calvinist in relation to what they actually believed & practiced. Then again, I should have listened to that really nagging voice about some of the people they admired and the pastor's refusal to come up with an actual statement of doctrine and/or beliefs from the start.

I really do think a lot of the new Calvinism thing is a trend, like the Emergent church was a few years ago. Oddly enough, when I first heard of Driscoll, he was considered Emergent, but he's done his best to distance himself from that these days. What bothers me is it is bringing a lot of changes and some scary stuff into more mainstream Calvinism and it seems like both camps are taking the worse parts from eachother. It's telling to me that they are all about hardcore complementarianism and other teaching that solidify a certain power structure but very light on sanctification, regulative worship, and other things that might call some of their lifestyles and attention-grabbing ploys into question.

I would say that personal revelation, if it does occur, is.... well..... PERSONAL. I'm really really suspicious when people use it as a platform of any kind, or think they have revelation or insight into someone elses life.

[defrauding]

Todd Friel, the host of that video, is not very bright.

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